Forgive me for my unpopular opinion, but mixers are to me only useful if you’re a newbie who scammed someone.
Imagine scammer who just scammed someone and he needs a useful tool to obfuscate source of funds and thus make it impossible for police to identify who that sneaky criminal element really is. Your opinion is not unpopular despite your claim it is. In your statement you accept the fact that mixer are useful and suitable for scammers, because mixed coins can hardly be tied to our scammer. The goal of that criminal, as we have learned above, is to escape punishment by making a transaction anonymous and private. What if non-criminal also wants to preserve privacy, why can't he use mixer if he knows that it is a useful tool to achieve that goal? He knows that because even risky people who value privacy use it, why ordinary people can't? I don't understand, why criminal should have that right for privacy, but honest people should not in order to avoid being called criminal. That is unfair at least. 
Topic: Why are mixers necessary? (Read 384 times)
I have been wondering what bitcoin mixers can offer me. With what I have read on this forum, bitcoin transaction is not anonymous, because it can be tracked using blockchain explorers. I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
Forgive me for my unpopular opinion, but mixers are to me only useful if you’re a newbie who scammed someone.
This is the second time I have seen you take a swipe at mixers. The first one was you calling it a tool for money laundering (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54936148). Are you against anonymity and privacy? or only anonymity? If you are against both, what is your take on the ongoing developments that are said to improve or enhance on chain transaction privacy like taproot and schnorr? I'm just wondering.
In very simple words, mixers are made for the purpose of hiding your BTC and sending you different BTC from different addresses to your desired address(es). If you send some coins to a mixer, it will keep them there for a while but immediately create you some tokens (not altcoins but kinda vouchers) which you can either give to the person you want them to redeem, or you can redeem them yourself on your desired address. These transactions will come from the reserves of the mixer so not to let anyone trace your old and new transactions. So, it is possible for you to anonymise your coins up to a level where they can't be traced at all.
Coin Mixers are really helpful in making transactions hard to track or untraceable at all
I don't think it's untraceable, as long as everything goes through the blockchain, everything can be trace, but with mixers, it will make it harder. Mixers are most helpful for people who like to launder their money to get out clean going to their exchange but I believe more users are using it legally.
but it is giving some scammers an advantage they are using it to anonymize their transaction and exit freely which is not good for the crypto community, even though it is very useful if you are concern about your privacy it is a good alternative for privacy coins.
It's another advantage because mixers are also being abuse by criminals, so I don't know if mixers will last longer as crypto is more popular now and the eyes of the regulators are already looking unto us.
Read this op, Cryptocurrency Mixers and Why Governments May Want to Shut Them Down
In general mixers clone the initial transaction to ensure privacy, making tracing really difficult but not impossible.
Yes, we can say it was pseudo-anonymous and we can ensure privacy with it and it is certainly impossible to trace which hands it goes provided that you use those legit mixers ( a lot of fake mixers out there). This is also a reason why some illegalities find it unnoticed and scammers will use Bitcoin mixers for they know that they aren't traceable and yeah, it works. Living to that purpose, it comes into the point that mixers also allowing such action because they never know where it is coming and never ask by then. That is how Bitcoin mixers it serves.
Coin Mixers are really helpful in making transactions hard to track or untraceable at all but it is giving some scammers an advantage they are using it to anonymize their transaction and exit freely which is not good for the crypto community, even though it is very useful if you are concern about your privacy it is a good alternative for privacy coins.
In general mixers clone the initial transaction to ensure privacy, making tracing really difficult but not impossible.
I have been wondering what bitcoin mixers can offer me. With what I have read on this forum, bitcoin transaction is not anonymous, because it can be tracked using blockchain explorers. I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
Forgive me for my unpopular opinion, but mixers are to me only useful if you’re a newbie who scammed someone.
I have been wondering what bitcoin mixers can offer me. With what I have read on this forum, bitcoin transaction is not anonymous, because it can be tracked using blockchain explorers. I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
They can in a way. Its not perfect anonymity. Data analysis can bust weak mixers but stronger too.They offer privacy which Bitcoin is lacking, for example you wouldn't want to show everyone your bank account right? With data that shows when and for how much you bough TV but also some sex tool.
Privacy is crucial, some just dont know that they need it before lack of it will hurt them.
I have been wondering what bitcoin mixers can offer me. With what I have read on this forum, bitcoin transaction is not anonymous, because it can be tracked using blockchain explorers. I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
In order to achieve more or less anonymity, you have to split the amount you send to the mixer and do it with a longer interval. But that doesn't guarantee that your BTC will get clean in the end. Do not do any illegal things, then you are on the safe way
Using the mixer is does not necessary because you can still receive your funds without having this mixer still why the people keep using this mixer? Because they want to keep it secured and anonymous you don't want to become trace all of your transactions. This is the most purpose of it.
Also, we have different mixers here on our forum because they already run a signature campaign and this is a good thing you can know see their reputation and feedback about using those platforms. Even the platform is secured still you can trace those mixers because they have also the mixer id still you can monitor.
Also, we have different mixers here on our forum because they already run a signature campaign and this is a good thing you can know see their reputation and feedback about using those platforms. Even the platform is secured still you can trace those mixers because they have also the mixer id still you can monitor.
Donor's address-----> mixers addresses-----> Recipient's address
Is it happening this way?
It depends on which mixer you are using.Is it happening this way?
Many mixers do simply move your coins around a few addresses, combine them and split them from some other deposits, and then send you coins back again. There was some interesting research posted on this forum which Lucius has linked to above which showed that such mixing methods could be broken and outputs linked to inputs without too much trouble.
ChipMixer uses a different method of pre-funding addresses with set amounts of bitcoin, and then handing over the private key to those addresses after you have made a deposit, which you can then import in to your own wallet. From a blockchain analysis point of view, these mixed coins were generated before you even made a deposit, and you can also merge or split them to obfuscate the amounts involved, leading to much greater privacy.
I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous?
It turned out that the mixers are not immune to monitoring and detection, so it was possible to connect the incoming and outgoing transaction due to some, as the author himself wrote trivial bugs. In other words, you should not be 100% sure that the mixer will give you complete anonymity - although I must mention that ChipMixer passed the best in this test.
For those unfamiliar with the topic - > Breaking Mixing Services
I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
As with the traditional financial system you wouldn't want anyone to be able to take a peek in your bank account and find out exactly how much money you have, it is the same with Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous and this was known since the beginning. Transactions are permanently recorded on the blockchain which is a public ledger open for anyone that has enough time or intention to make research and figure out patterns and names.
KYC documents have been leaked and criminal networks can connect wallets to an individual. After that, you become a target. There are hundreds of ways scammers can target an individual and their methods are surprisingly effective. We've already read of cases of Sim-Swap, Social engineering attacks, hacking, targetted phishing, even people held hostage, and cases of extortion. Privacy of funds is very important to increase security and avoid situations like these.
With what I have read on this forum, bitcoin transaction is not anonymous, because it can be tracked using blockchain explorers.
Yes, but with mixers, your transaction can be harder to track, that's why they exist and they are profitable.
Nobody would track us if we are not doing illegal transactions, mixers purpose is not to help criminals hide their illegal doings, but to provide privacy we deserve.
For example, will the bitcoin transacted from donor be first sent into mixers addresses before it is sent to recipient? To just make it less traceable.
Donor's address-----> mixers addresses-----> Recipient's address
Is it happening this way?
No, isn'tDonor's address-----> mixers addresses-----> Recipient's address
Is it happening this way?
Look like this,
Donor's address-----> mixers addresses
new address-----> Recipient's address
Mixing need to be done well to protect your privacy so you can do it yourself or use mixing services (mixers). Note that not all mixers are good and not all of them can protect your privacy. Also beware of scam mixers too.
More important, remember to read ToS of the company you are using their services, to know whether they accept Coin Join transactions. If they don't allow, you will get troubles.
More important, remember to read ToS of the company you are using their services, to know whether they accept Coin Join transactions. If they don't allow, you will get troubles.
.....
but once your address marked as a scam, mixers services will not accept your bitcoin to mix, theoretically, --they will hold and freeze your bitcoin.
Centralized mixing services aren't the same as centralized exchanges. but once your address marked as a scam, mixers services will not accept your bitcoin to mix, theoretically, --they will hold and freeze your bitcoin.
They will most likely go out of business if they start blocking, holding, and freezing bitcoins because nobody would ever trust them again like what LeGaulois said.
Donor's address-----> mixers addresses-----> Recipient's address
Is it happening this way?
See the figure above. You will send BTC to mixer address namely "A". Now if mixer sends fund from the address "A" to recipent, it will easily be detected and the connection will be solid. Instant, mixer do not send BTC from address "A" but rather they send from a previously loaded address. So, the initial sender and the receiver has no connection, no trace.Is it happening this way?
- credit to RaptarX
This is also how I imagine it sometimes:
Many depositor's address (customers A, B, C, D, E, F)-----> mixer's address---mixer 'jumbles' bitcoin from depositors---> Customer A's recipient address
legendary
Activity: 2254
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Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse
Donor's address-----> mixers addresses-----> Recipient's address
Is it happening this way?
See the figure above. You will send BTC to mixer address namely "A". Now if mixer sends fund from the address "A" to recipent, it will easily be detected and the connection will be solid. Instant, mixer do not send BTC from address "A" but rather they send from a previously loaded address. So, the initial sender and the receiver has no connection, no trace. Is it happening this way?
-1: You don't want people to know how many bitcoins you have on your wallet
-2: You don't want people to know the address 1abcdefghijkl is owned by Oshosondy
-3: You don't want people looking at spending patterns
-4: You don't want to know the address owner of 1abcdefghijk is leaving at 123 avenue of liberty 75000 New York and to see people visiting you at home to kidnapp you. (similar story happened before)
As you say Bitcoin transactions aren't anonymous, this is why we use to say "pseudo-anonymous". Above are couple examples you can think about.
Well explained, I can see bitcoin transactions not to still be anonymous now, this is also well explained into full clarity. But, I will like if 1 more question is answered. What principle are mixers using to make just a single address to have privacy? Are mixing services having addresses of there own using to mix transactions from another address. For example, will the bitcoin transacted from donor be first sent into mixers addresses before it is sent to recipient? To just make it less traceable. -2: You don't want people to know the address 1abcdefghijkl is owned by Oshosondy
-3: You don't want people looking at spending patterns
-4: You don't want to know the address owner of 1abcdefghijk is leaving at 123 avenue of liberty 75000 New York and to see people visiting you at home to kidnapp you. (similar story happened before)
As you say Bitcoin transactions aren't anonymous, this is why we use to say "pseudo-anonymous". Above are couple examples you can think about.
Donor's address-----> mixers addresses-----> Recipient's address
Is it happening this way?
-
Sorry but this is fake.
Show me a single link/article saying a mixer froze the funds because it was sent from a scammer.
Mixers have been mixing very large transactions coming from hacks (the Twitter hack as the latest exmple), or whatever. Why didn't they block the bitcoins so.
Why mixers are more and more actively used on dark markets?
If a mixer starts to do this, it will lose its reputation the next day. What you say is a real shit
-1: You don't want people to know how many bitcoins you have on your wallet
-2: You don't want people to know the address 1abcdefghijkl is owned by Oshosondy
-3: You don't want people looking at spending patterns
-4: You don't want to know the address owner of 1abcdefghijk is leaving at 123 avenue of liberty 75000 New York and to see people visiting you at home to kidnapp you. (similar story happened before)
As you say Bitcoin transactions aren't anonymous, this is why we use to say "pseudo-anonymous". Above are couple examples you can think about
...It will not directly link to your personal information, but once your address marked as a scam, mixers services will not accept your bitcoin to mix, theoretically, --they will hold and freeze your bitcoin.
..Sorry but this is fake.
Show me a single link/article saying a mixer froze the funds because it was sent from a scammer.
Mixers have been mixing very large transactions coming from hacks (the Twitter hack as the latest exmple), or whatever. Why didn't they block the bitcoins so.
Why mixers are more and more actively used on dark markets?
If a mixer starts to do this, it will lose its reputation the next day. What you say is a real shit
...
-1: You don't want people to know how many bitcoins you have on your wallet
-2: You don't want people to know the address 1abcdefghijkl is owned by Oshosondy
-3: You don't want people looking at spending patterns
-4: You don't want to know the address owner of 1abcdefghijk is leaving at 123 avenue of liberty 75000 New York and to see people visiting you at home to kidnapp you. (similar story happened before)
As you say Bitcoin transactions aren't anonymous, this is why we use to say "pseudo-anonymous". Above are couple examples you can think about
Can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
There are many mixer services out there and they have many different ways to mix a coin.
Mixing bitcoin can make your transaction anonymous and clean.
Some people want to use a mixer because some exchanges like Coinbase if your Bitcoin is from Gambling casino there is a big chance that they will suspend your Coinbase account. That's why you will need a mixing service to mix your coins that can help to avoid Coinbase suspension as a sample.
Other people to use a mixer for transferring their funds from other exchanges because there are some exchanges that do not allow to transfer from other exchanges. Or some thieves want their stolen Bitcoins to mix to make their Bitcoin clean and anonymous.
There are many different functions like Coinjoint it looks like shuffle coins from other owners and you will receive mixed coins.
Or the unique mixing method from Chipmixer where you can instantly receive Bitcoins after 1 confirmation they don't need to shuffle the coins because they already have mixed coin.
Similar questions below:
- What is Bitcoin Mixer?
- Why need to use a Mixer?
- Is Bitcoin Mixer a must?
Ideally, a mixing services is not needed. Those service was established to targeting a specific market segmentation. For example,
1. Serving consumers who prefer more privacy and anonymity.
2. Serving consumers who owned lot's of btc.
Apart from your question above, I want to ask. With the recognition of btc as one of payment instrument (as happened in DC). Is this mixing services still needed? Because when we talk about "money" in current ecosystem. Sender and receiver must have clear identities. And these mixing services can be categorized as one of the money laundry activities.
Yeap. Post above my comment can be categorize as "money laundry" based on current financial ecosystem.
1. Serving consumers who prefer more privacy and anonymity.
2. Serving consumers who owned lot's of btc.
Apart from your question above, I want to ask. With the recognition of btc as one of payment instrument (as happened in DC). Is this mixing services still needed? Because when we talk about "money" in current ecosystem. Sender and receiver must have clear identities. And these mixing services can be categorized as one of the money laundry activities.
Yeap. Post above my comment can be categorize as "money laundry" based on current financial ecosystem.
Well, here is a simple image to understand you most.
[credited from google]
Or this thread made by @RapTarX [ https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-bitcoin-mixer-5106873 ].
It is pseudonymous, the transactions can be transparent and perhaps can be trace but a less chances. It will not directly link to your personal information, but once your address marked as a scam, mixers services will not accept your bitcoin to mix, theoretically, --they will hold and freeze your bitcoin.
[credited from google]
Or this thread made by @RapTarX [ https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-bitcoin-mixer-5106873 ].
It is pseudonymous, the transactions can be transparent and perhaps can be trace but a less chances. It will not directly link to your personal information, but once your address marked as a scam, mixers services will not accept your bitcoin to mix, theoretically, --they will hold and freeze your bitcoin.
Basically, they mix up different transactions making it difficult to know the source of inputs in a transactions. Transactions are anonymous, but transparent making it possible to track and monitor, hence building a pseudo identity around a couple o addresses which can be linked to one person.
I could own an address which is public on the forum, but would want to send bitcoins to another which isn't without linking it to my forum identity. This is where mixers would help to maintain privacy.
I could own an address which is public on the forum, but would want to send bitcoins to another which isn't without linking it to my forum identity. This is where mixers would help to maintain privacy.
I have been wondering what bitcoin mixers can offer me. With what I have read on this forum, bitcoin transaction is not anonymous, because it can be tracked using blockchain explorers. I do not know much about bitcoin mixers, can they make bitcoin transactions still anonymous? Or please, what is the function of bitcoin mixers?
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