Why are some people still skeptical about climate change? - page 9.

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: Spendulus on November 16, 2018, 07:38:42 AM

Quote from: coins4commies on November 16, 2018, 12:25:58 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 06:01:29 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on November 15, 2018, 04:13:50 PM

....
Its actually quite the opposite. All of the CO2 reduction solutions would make the world a better place. ....

No, that's ridiculous.

First of all, your mistake is this claim. Note the bolded word.

All of the CO2 ....

It should be obvious there have been some really, really bad ideas floated.

You want examples or would you like to revise your claim?

All that I know of. I would love to hear the examples and can't imagine they are anything being seriously considered and not just "floated".

Forced population reduction.

Storing CO2 in underground caverns under huge pressures.

Painting roads and rooftops white.

''Forced population reduction.'' The fuck? Come one bro, just admit most CO2 reduction solutions are good, you sound like a conspiracy nutjob.

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

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Quote from: coins4commies on November 16, 2018, 12:25:58 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 06:01:29 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on November 15, 2018, 04:13:50 PM

....
Its actually quite the opposite. All of the CO2 reduction solutions would make the world a better place. ....

No, that's ridiculous.

First of all, your mistake is this claim. Note the bolded word.

All of the CO2 ....

It should be obvious there have been some really, really bad ideas floated.

You want examples or would you like to revise your claim?

All that I know of. I would love to hear the examples and can't imagine they are anything being seriously considered and not just "floated".

Forced population reduction.

Storing CO2 in underground caverns under huge pressures.

Painting roads and rooftops white.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 09:46:57 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2018, 09:01:20 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 08:37:45 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 08:06:09 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:56:23 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

What questions, I only asked one. I don't see why most scientists would lie about it, period. If you want to discuss what you said:

However I did find this: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

What about it? This article simply discusses the issues in moving from temperature measurements by ship engine cooling water to the bouys.

''These results suggest that reported rates of SST warming in recent years have been underestimated in these three data sets.''

''Ocean temperature is related to ocean heat content, an important topic in the debate over global warming.''

https://judithcurry.com/2018/11/06/a-major-problem-with-the-resplandy-et-al-ocean-heat-uptake-paper/

Next.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/energy-environment/2018/11/14/scientists-acknowledge-key-errors-study-how-fast-oceans-are-warming/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.505aaa5aeac9

Next.

They admitted to the errors and: ''is in line with other studies that have drawn similar conclusions. And it hasn’t changed much despite the errors.''

Even if it's not more than what they previously thought, it still shows, along all the other studies, that oceans are still absorving more and more heat.

Even if that were true, which is under dispute, this does nothing to support the theory HUMANS are the cause.

coins4commies

full member

Activity: 952

Merit: 175

@cryptocommies

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 06:01:29 PM

Quote from: coins4commies on November 15, 2018, 04:13:50 PM

....
Its actually quite the opposite. All of the CO2 reduction solutions would make the world a better place. ....

No, that's ridiculous.

First of all, your mistake is this claim. Note the bolded word.

All of the CO2 ....

It should be obvious there have been some really, really bad ideas floated.

You want examples or would you like to revise your claim?

All that I know of. I would love to hear the examples and can't imagine they are anything being seriously considered and not just "floated".

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2018, 09:01:20 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 08:37:45 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 08:06:09 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:56:23 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

What questions, I only asked one. I don't see why most scientists would lie about it, period. If you want to discuss what you said:

However I did find this: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

What about it? This article simply discusses the issues in moving from temperature measurements by ship engine cooling water to the bouys.

''These results suggest that reported rates of SST warming in recent years have been underestimated in these three data sets.''

''Ocean temperature is related to ocean heat content, an important topic in the debate over global warming.''

https://judithcurry.com/2018/11/06/a-major-problem-with-the-resplandy-et-al-ocean-heat-uptake-paper/

Next.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/energy-environment/2018/11/14/scientists-acknowledge-key-errors-study-how-fast-oceans-are-warming/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.505aaa5aeac9

Next.

They admitted to the errors and: ''is in line with other studies that have drawn similar conclusions. And it hasn’t changed much despite the errors.''

Even if it's not more than what they previously thought, it still shows, along all the other studies, that oceans are still absorving more and more heat.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 08:37:45 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 08:06:09 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:56:23 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

What questions, I only asked one. I don't see why most scientists would lie about it, period. If you want to discuss what you said:

However I did find this: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

What about it? This article simply discusses the issues in moving from temperature measurements by ship engine cooling water to the bouys.

''These results suggest that reported rates of SST warming in recent years have been underestimated in these three data sets.''

''Ocean temperature is related to ocean heat content, an important topic in the debate over global warming.''

https://judithcurry.com/2018/11/06/a-major-problem-with-the-resplandy-et-al-ocean-heat-uptake-paper/

Next.

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 08:06:09 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:56:23 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

What questions, I only asked one. I don't see why most scientists would lie about it, period. If you want to discuss what you said:

However I did find this: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

What about it? This article simply discusses the issues in moving from temperature measurements by ship engine cooling water to the bouys.

''These results suggest that reported rates of SST warming in recent years have been underestimated in these three data sets.''

''Ocean temperature is related to ocean heat content, an important topic in the debate over global warming.''

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:56:23 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

What questions, I only asked one. I don't see why most scientists would lie about it, period. If you want to discuss what you said:

However I did find this: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

What about it? This article simply discusses the issues in moving from temperature measurements by ship engine cooling water to the bouys.

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:43:06 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

What questions, I only asked one. I don't see why most scientists would lie about it, period. If you want to discuss what you said:

However I did find this: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

...

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?

I answered your questions with a re-explanation of the nature of scientific inquiry.

Now what? Change the subject? What are you trying to get to exactly?

Let me say my opinion one more time and see if it sinks in.

Because of the very intensity with which people are told to believe in climate change, one should question all the more the actual science, and insist on quality science.

If you don't, you will not get quality. Ever. And yes, right now, many of the studies are poor quality and will not stand up to a rigorous examination.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:29:28 PM

It's not an argument, that's what I'm saying. That's not proof that climate change is a hoax. Just because someone can benefit from it somewhere. Flat earthers also think governments benefit from hiding the truth from us, should I believe them as well?

Great, we are agreement because I never even made that argument. Also I never claimed it was proof, you asked for motives so I provided them. The burden of proof is not on me to prove anthropogenic climate change is not real, it is on the supporters of the theory to prove it is real. So far none of the evidence presented that I have seen is legitimate or reliable as it all depends on either projections, estimates, or computer simulations, not empirical data. Really? You are going to pull out flat Earthers... common, that is chicken shit guilt via association tactics, and it is not even associated. You can do better than that bald faced slander.

Astargath

hero member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2018, 07:17:11 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 06:21:30 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2018, 06:06:12 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 04:01:55 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2018, 03:56:56 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 03:33:58 PM

Quote from: bones261 on November 15, 2018, 01:59:14 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 01:25:20 PM

Aside from crazy conspiracy theorists, real skeptics of this would be people who acknowledge there is some climate change happening but it's not because of us. A lot of people simply believe it's a natural process. I don't know too much about it but I definitely don't believe the government or whoever is faking it.

Let me get this straight. Humanity has been burning lots of fossil fuels for over two centuries now. It took nature millions of years to remove the CO2 from the atmosphere and sequester it in the form of fossil fuels. Now humanity is converting this form back to CO2 by burning it. Yet, if climate change is related to an increase in CO2 levels, it can't be tied to human action? OK whatever. I don't follow the logic. Even if the bulk of the CO2 is released by volcanoes, nature has been slowly sequestering this excess over millions of years. The contribution of humanity now taking this sequestered CO2 and releasing it back into the atmosphere cannot be helping the situation. This is compounded by the fact that the sun is putting out much more energy than it did eons ago. Therefore, we need less CO2 in the atmosphere to keep this planet habitable, not more.

I'm sure it's not helping, obviously, but what's the real impact of it? Like are we contributing 0,001% to it or are we the 50%? As I said I don't really know much about it, I don't really have any reason to believe the government/science is lying about it, I love science. I don't see any motif behind it either, what would they gain from it?

What do any monopolies get from any kind of regulation? The ability to stifle competition while they can cope with new regulations. Also I suggest you look into how much money is ALREADY being made in the carbon swap market. What would happen to that market with wider carbon regulation I wonder?

I don't know man, the ''government profits from this'' argument just doesn't do it for me. Every single conspiracy theorists uses that, vaccines, flat earth, bombs, terrorists, etc etc.

The government could be making money from a lot of different things, legalizing weed for instance, I'm sure they would make money with it, don't you think? Yet they don't do it. The government is people, they are not fucking Satan. They also make money with all the fines/tickets for driving, drinking, etc etc but are they not doing it for our benefit?

Remind me where I used the word government anywhere in my statement.

Who makes the regulations? Yeah.. Government / company / xxxx. It doesn't matter, my point is that it's not a good enough argument. A lot of different people/companies/governments can profit from a lot of different things at any given time. Saying they would or are profiting from it doesn't mean it's a hoax.

The point was that I never made the argument "governments would profit", you did. I specifically cited financial sectors and large corporate entities who would greatly benefit from this legislation while smaller companies and individuals will be unable to cope. Now if you are denying corporations would manipulate government for profit then I have a special jar of magic piss to sell you, its delicious you'll love it.

It's not an argument, that's what I'm saying. That's not proof that climate change is a hoax. Just because someone can benefit from it somewhere. Flat earthers also think governments benefit from hiding the truth from us, should I believe them as well?

Astargath

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Activity: 1624

Merit: 645

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 07:11:50 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 07:06:10 PM

Quote from: Spendulus on November 15, 2018, 06:23:02 PM

Quote from: Astargath on November 15, 2018, 03:33:58 PM

....I don't really have any reason to believe the government/science is lying about it, I love science. I don't see any motif behind it either, what would they gain from it?

Then you know that science is not science unless it can be independently verified and validated, and you know that data sets must be freely available, both the raw and the final sets, for that to be possible.

About half of the temperature sensors now used are located at airports.

See any problem with that?

http://notrickszone.com/2017/02/13/more-data-manipulation-by-noaa-nasa-hadcrut-cooling-the-past-warming-the-present/

Most scientists say that climate change is real, I really don't see why they would lie, not to say that we should just believe them but still. I don't know I don't really trust those conspiracy theory websites too much.

Nobody needs to trust conspiracy blah blah blah, and nobody needs to trust things scientists or politicians say. Science is PROVABLE, or it is not science. There's almost no room for belief.

The very essence of science is repeatability. The data problems with HADCRUT and the other indices of temperature are well known.

I passed a temperature sensor today, maybe 50-75 feet away. Guess where that was? AT AN AIRPORT!!!!

You know those don't read the same as sensors did in 1910 or 1935.

Skepticism is well needed as far as "climate science." When people like you suppress skepticism with derisive statements associating it with conspiracy, vaccines, flat earth, bombs, terrorist etc etc etc you are negating the very nature of scientific inquiry.

What about sea levels rising, that to me suggests that something is going on, don't you think?