Topic: Why are UK bitcoin buying options disappearing (Read 10998 times)
we need a good gbp/btc exchange imo !
Check out Bitcoin Magnet for buying BTC @ Bitstamp +5%
I tried an alternative account number for Bitstamp... this worked once for a small payment but then a slightly larger payment failed.
I then tried Currencyfair. I tried a very small payment to Bitstamp as a test, that was 2 days ago. I then tried €100 a day ago and that too isn't there yet either.
I have been using Bitcoin to regularly reduce banking fees. It means that instead of saving up and sending in big blocks of cash to reduce fees I was able to send as little as £1 if I wanted to with no extra costs - otherwise this would have cost me £25 on send, ~$20 in the middle and $15 on receive.
I will try bitbargain. Might look into getting paid outside the UK... it can only get worse
I then tried Currencyfair. I tried a very small payment to Bitstamp as a test, that was 2 days ago. I then tried €100 a day ago and that too isn't there yet either.
I have been using Bitcoin to regularly reduce banking fees. It means that instead of saving up and sending in big blocks of cash to reduce fees I was able to send as little as £1 if I wanted to with no extra costs - otherwise this would have cost me £25 on send, ~$20 in the middle and $15 on receive.
I will try bitbargain. Might look into getting paid outside the UK... it can only get worse
I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
This is exactly what the whole thread is about. Yes but Localbitcoins and Bitbargain seem to offer the same kind of options, on a larger scale yet they seem to be ok in the UK (including offer bank transfers)? The other Bitcoin services that are getting shut down etc seem to be suseptible due to scale where as I am wondering if a small time shop would work under the radar.
I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
this is not official advise, just unofficial tip speaking to most banks, the FSA, HMRC the basic rule of thumb is, if you stay under the wire transfer limits of roughly £850 per customer per day banks wont see it as a risk to require investigating you. speak to your bank about how much transfer YOU are allowed per day on YOUR account. exceeding this second amount will get the banks and......... (dramatic pause) HMRC to start to take in interest in you (ripple effect through to FSA).
basically if you stick under £850 per customer and under the total daily transmission limits your bank account allows then both FSA and your bank will treat you as a personal transaction (not business) so you can get away with a certain amount.
the general amounts are here but thats generalised as each account type within each bank have their own limits.
so, to those doing occasional localbitcoin style transactions, you don't have much to worry about..much... but don't get "to big for your own boots", and be honest with your bank as to why or what the transactions are for. as saying your selling advertising where infact its bitcoins. and then some scamming &a$tard tries contacting your bank for a transfer reversal, lying to your bank won't have helped your cause.
it is also worth noting that if you do want to regularly exceed these amounts and do it as a business, (hopefully you already know the regulations and what limits there are) to look at if you want to just be FSA authorised or FSA accredited. as they are 2 separate things. (accredited is the more expensive one for businesses doing more then £3mill a month)
This was my line of thinking tbh, if I was to set up my proposed idea then I highly doubt I would reach a significant size worth investigation. I am sure many on these forums, eBay and so on regularly make large sums. Obviously I wont be using any of this theoretical talk as a basis for legal information. I might offer up 1BTC on one of my merchant channels just to get an idea of how easy the transaction goes through.
I personally believe that BitBargain.co.uk is by far the easiest option. Because its a marketplace and not an exchange, you can often pick up cheap coins solely off sellers needing some quick cash. Other benefits over Local Bitcoins is that you can trade LTC too and ratings actually mean something. Plus I hear BTCFaucet is going to implement some sort of ID check soon!
I have a family member in the UK who sends me some money occasionally and beginning last year I started asking them to do it using bitcoin. We used to use Intersango, but that was shut down soon after. We moved to using blockchain.info's UK options but even that was shut down in the last week or so. I asked on the bitcoin-otc IRC channel and someone said the UK authorities are cracking down. I haven't seen any news on this and I follow bitcoin realetd news regularly. Does anyone know WTF is going on?? 
It could probably be a good business idea for someone to open a cash office in London, ala WU, only going GBP <> BTC.
I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
this is not official advise, just unofficial tip speaking to most banks, the FSA, HMRC the basic rule of thumb is, if you stay under the wire transfer limits of roughly £850 per customer per day banks wont see it as a risk to require investigating you. speak to your bank about how much transfer YOU are allowed per day on YOUR account. exceeding this second amount will get the banks and......... (dramatic pause) HMRC to start to take in interest in you (ripple effect through to FSA).
basically if you stick under £850 per customer and under the total daily transmission limits your bank account allows then both FSA and your bank will treat you as a personal transaction (not business) so you can get away with a certain amount.
the general amounts are here but thats generalised as each account type within each bank have their own limits.
so, to those doing occasional localbitcoin style transactions, you don't have much to worry about..much... but don't get "to big for your own boots", and be honest with your bank as to why or what the transactions are for. as saying your selling advertising where infact its bitcoins. and then some scamming &a$tard tries contacting your bank for a transfer reversal, lying to your bank won't have helped your cause.
it is also worth noting that if you do want to regularly exceed these amounts and do it as a business, (hopefully you already know the regulations and what limits there are) to look at if you want to just be FSA authorised or FSA accredited. as they are 2 separate things. (accredited is the more expensive one for businesses doing more then £3mill a month).
i personally would say don't have the mindset of 'what you can get away with' - instead, learn the regulations, learn the limits and do everything official and honest. Purely to avoid headaches and surprises later.
I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
This is exactly what the whole thread is about.
I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
.
I am really looking for better methods in the UK to get access to Bitcoin. I am actually thinking we should seriously do something about this together, form a company, get a law firm to represent a bunch of us and chip in some money to get regulations in place. We are moving at snail speed here, and may as well get started before its too late.
Who is up for doing something about this thing? I would gladly assist with money etc myself for a venture.
Who is up for doing something about this thing? I would gladly assist with money etc myself for a venture.
the issues in the UK are not to do with banks hating bitcoin, but banks hating people that don't follow regulation guidelines in regards to FIAT. such as Amir Taaki who is a known hater of government rules that never got FSA regulated with his intersango business.
now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
Funny how the regulators turn blind eyes on the banks yet manage to be very capable at disrupting new services in the UK.
banks dont get ignored. they follow the rules in regards to asking for Id when setting up an account/setting customer limits.. what FSA does not do is tell banks not to lie about certain things or say dont leg it with peoples money. al they care about is customers traceability.
basic rule of thumb is as long as we can trace where customers send their money to its fine. if you decide to leg it with the money, thats fine too as long as you bought the government insurance from http://www.fscs.org.uk/
but amir taaki never got regulated and never got the insurance so yea, he deserved to get screwed by proving he couldnt look after customers funds legally
I'm in Ireland and have been using the German site www.bitcoin.de to buy coins recently. I've done 6 smallish transactions (none greater than 1 btc) in the last 2 weeks and they've all been fine. It uses direct SEPA transfers to the seller with a reputation system so maybe it's more friendly to use with UK banks since you don't have to transfer to a known exchange bank A/C
the issues in the UK are not to do with banks hating bitcoin, but banks hating people that don't follow regulation guidelines in regards to FIAT. such as Amir Taaki who is a known hater of government rules that never got FSA regulated with his intersango business.
now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
Funny how the regulators turn blind eyes on the banks yet manage to be very capable at disrupting new services in the UK.
the issues in the UK are not to do with banks hating bitcoin, but banks hating people that don't follow regulation guidelines in regards to FIAT. such as Amir Taaki who is a known hater of government rules that never got FSA regulated with his intersango business.
now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
Get yourself a verified paypal account, and then when withdrawing fiat, you can use bitinstant to withdraw from mtgox to paypal. You can then withdraw from paypal to your bank account.
Sending fiat money to mtgox is more problematic. Look into an e exchanger that will put money into a liberty reserve account, which then goes into mtgox.
Sending fiat money to mtgox is more problematic. Look into an e exchanger that will put money into a liberty reserve account, which then goes into mtgox.
BitBargain was mentioned once as "selling for +10 GBP".
Currently the cheapest option is only approx 2 GBP above Mt.Gox. If you're in the UK and looking to buy bitcoins quickly via bank transfer and don't want to take a big risk in getting scammed, always take a look at https://bitbargain.co.uk/ first.
The actual price depends on supply vs demand, really. Any time the price elevates or drops very quickly, the margin will grow. After some period of stability, margins will go lower and lower.
Here's the actual graph (green stuff = mt.gox price, yellow line = bitbargain, space between the two = margins)
Currently the cheapest option is only approx 2 GBP above Mt.Gox. If you're in the UK and looking to buy bitcoins quickly via bank transfer and don't want to take a big risk in getting scammed, always take a look at https://bitbargain.co.uk/ first.
The actual price depends on supply vs demand, really. Any time the price elevates or drops very quickly, the margin will grow. After some period of stability, margins will go lower and lower.
Here's the actual graph (green stuff = mt.gox price, yellow line = bitbargain, space between the two = margins)
I'm selling BTC, my main advert is here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/uk-selling-btc-for-your-cash-good-rates-london-area-or-by-post-144886
However I only accept cash as loads of funds going in and out of a bank account is too risky.
Meet ups near M25 Junction 25 (Enfield), Herts/Middx/Essex area. Have many customers from London.
However I only accept cash as loads of funds going in and out of a bank account is too risky.
Meet ups near M25 Junction 25 (Enfield), Herts/Middx/Essex area. Have many customers from London.
Does anyone know precisely how much it would cost to become a licensed exchange in the UK? The max fees the former FSA charged seemed to be on the order of 25k but that was for "complex cases". If your case wasn't deemed "complex" it'd be lower.
Whilst 25k blown just on a first round of regulatory licensing is a pretty intense cost, stacked up against employee time, office rent and server resources it's probably NOT the largest cost for someone who wants to build a serious exchange. And once you're licensed I would hope that banks give you a much easier time. UK has same-day domestic wires, does it not? So once set up it should be a good place to do trading.
Until then, localbitcoins style agent networks seem like the only way to go. Once you found an agent and have developed a trust relationship, you can use PayPal or the like to buy coins. The trader has to deal with the slow/expensive wires to and from Japan, but they can amortize those costs. I guess as long as the agents aren't doing it as a business then they'd fall below the standard thresholds that trigger licensing requirements.
Whilst 25k blown just on a first round of regulatory licensing is a pretty intense cost, stacked up against employee time, office rent and server resources it's probably NOT the largest cost for someone who wants to build a serious exchange. And once you're licensed I would hope that banks give you a much easier time. UK has same-day domestic wires, does it not? So once set up it should be a good place to do trading.
Until then, localbitcoins style agent networks seem like the only way to go. Once you found an agent and have developed a trust relationship, you can use PayPal or the like to buy coins. The trader has to deal with the slow/expensive wires to and from Japan, but they can amortize those costs. I guess as long as the agents aren't doing it as a business then they'd fall below the standard thresholds that trigger licensing requirements.
Find a UK lawyer and ask them, there are plenty of FSA incorporation/registration sites in the UK all charging various gigantic fees and you need to hire F/T local compliance officers, plus I don't think FSA is a good enough license you probably need the full money transfer license which is a complete racket in the UK to crush all competition, since it's a global hub for transfers. Unless you are a billionaire Russian oligarch with connections to corrupt Lords to put in a good word with the FSA office forget it.
You could also just set up in Europe and run a local UK payment gateway to accept debit and bank transfers but lot's of fraud, and you'd need a huge slush fund to cover liquidity while you're waiting for the gateway to settle to your account, which typically takes a week but some are 2-3days. They also don't want anything to do with bitcoin. I wrote a completely automated system in haskell that used the API from thecurrencycloud.com to accept and process GBP payments that worked flawlessly then at last minute their correspondent banks shut the account down because they read about Bitcoin being associated with drugs. Alas.
In short with the fees associated with becoming compliant which include, licenses, bond deposits, solicitors, office space, development & all the rest of it...
Your looking at a minimum investment of about £100,000
Your looking at a minimum investment of about £100,000
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