Topic: Why aren't you investing in a 2.0 platform? (Read 1346 times)

IMO it's only recently we are starting to see a little bit of originality in the altcoin space.
The sad thing is, as you pointed out  many old-timers are too burnt out with what has been a  torrential downpour of copy paste shitcoins (basically litecoin forks) to spend any time analysing recent projects
I think it's a mistake because I believe the market is slowly finding it's legs in a maturation phase and recently few projects are emerging which actually cater to a genuine niche and it's unwise to totally ignore developments there, especially when real use cases are demonstrated and even external entities can appreciate the potential.

EXACTLY !

That is a key point you said in relation to this topic subject.
And highlights a glaring and rapidly growing problem.

I looooong ago stopped caring about the tech side and dropped all my crypto related coding etc
How do you do this now with out knowing what all the other guys are doing ?
I think the user base of who is involved into the experimental code really deep is shrinking hard & fast.
It's become too much to keep up with and even worse..
It's getting to hard to an average Crypto supporter to explain what or how something works (so they can decide on it)
See what i am saying ?
Crypto trends over time..

For example.. MUSIC
Back in the 90's i'd check out every band i heard about with Heavy Metal.
NOW ? i ignore 99% of it.. no exaggeration !
I have an RSS Feed on my home page of all new Metal albums released 24/7 all year round.
And i almost never have heard of the bands and i know Metal well too !
Problem is there is just sooooo much of it all in our modern age.
And this is glaring problem in all aspects of life it seems too.

The world has changed and there is often just sooo many choices a lot of people check out & lose interest.
Convoluted Crypto code is not helping adoption.. especially if it = another coin (#7,001)
And don't forget guys another coin i still.. "another coin" sorry but it's true !

Factom's security is so flawed that it is useless junk:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14112369

Bitshares is a scam that's all hype and fundamentally doesn't make any sense. This has been shown over and over again. It's circular, with "value" backed by their own worthless digital assets. They don't address a real-world problem.

Factom is interesting and I can see it addressing some niche uses cases but it fundamentally lacks smart contract capabilities as pointed out very adeptly by Eris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebw1RJYzaRw

Ethereum will achieve some moderate use in the real world I'm guessing. I bought at 2.5 and sold at 6.5.

I bought some Lisk.io in the presale, I think it's garbage but was looking for a completely wild opportunity.

Right now I'm mostly in XRP (Ripple). Many dislike this asset but if you look at the progress they've made in the past few months it's phenomenal. Ripple is actively working with banks, regulators, Microsoft... Their asset solves a real world problem to boot and it's wildly undervalued mostly due to lack of enthusiasm from altcoin ideologues. In a month or so they will launch their incentive program which will operate similar to mining which will likely boost adoption.

Mark my words, Q2 we'll start to see Ripple emerge into a category of it's own as a protocol and XRP just may well benefit. Ripple quietly launched 11 new validators on 3/7/2016, conspicuously close to the 10 banks integrations they say they've completed...

Correct I am not against free market experimentation. But I think it is my duty to analyze the technologies (because no one else is ... well at least not publicly and exhaustively and because I need to know intimately all the flaws of others and how I plan to avoid those flaws). And that includes enumerating the flaws in any work I do.

I think what people get frustrated with is that they want to believe there is progress, and they don't want to hear that something is just hype to steal money from us. Especially the pumpers who bought the coin low don't want to hear any facts about technology.

Well, you clearly are on top of it 

Thanks for clarifying.

No worries. I do agree with the scalablity issues so only consider it's usefulness for a fairly narrow subset of applications.
If you do get the time to research it I'd love to take a read through.


I remember an old quote of AnonyMints: "enable the free market to experiment and innovate. Don't try to proclaim you know the perfect design for all" . I think his matter-of-fact frankness and thirst for engineering what he feels is a fix to as yet unsolvable problems gets mistaken for him arrogantly forgetting the latter portion of that quote whenever he criticizes existing approaches.Of course it is easier to identifiy flaws than it is to propose a solution avoiding them, or indeed presenting another set of flaws. Harder so to successfully implement said solution so he has to get some props for open his project up for scrutiny.

There won't be an ANN thread.

Can't wait for the ANN thread of your coin. I guess you will have a lot of friendly people there 

Sorry I haven't analyzed Counterparty. I am at the limit of altcoins that I can research. I need focus more on my own work. After studying dozens of altcoins from Stellar to Factom to Iota to Dash, etc and finding flaws in all of them, I am confident there is nothing out there that is doing block chain consensus in a way that can scale (to millions of users) decentralized, not even Monero.

Obviously Counterparty is built on Bitcoin's block chain so inherits the scalability issues plaguing Bitcoin.

I feel as if I've totally mis-explained my initial post.

As far as your point 1) goes, I don't think what the examples here are improvements on bitcoin. I think in some instances the developers make no effort to claim that, instead focusing on the angle that these projects are just filling in a niche that would be hard to serve on bitcoin itself and allowing speculators to capitalize on that aspect.

 I'm not now, and can't envision a future of ever storing wealth on factom for example. It's ludicrous. I don't for a second beleive it will ever become a currency or a commodity with hundreds of thousands of users like bitcoin, and consider it totally plausible for it to vanish off and be valued at next to nothing 2 years to come, just like hundreds of 'revolutionary' alts that came before it. However with my speculator hat on and nothing more I've still "invested" in it and some of the other examples in my post, because unlike say..litecoin we are actually seeing external industry use of these alts.

Granted some of these press releases are just slightly more sexed up variations of the fake press releases popularised by auroracoin, paycoin etc designed to inflate the price temporarily and lure in impressionable sheep market participants but some of these are sound. "let's commision a research lab and accelerator program to fund VertCoin development"  said no bank COO ever. However fintech scene is excited about ETH, work is going on in the background and I've seen it first hand no matter what anyones personal opinion on it is.

as far as your 2) points goes, I think it kind of ties in with what I wrote above. CounterParty, for instance isn't a p2p currency, and doesn't pretend to be. Nobody is paying for coffee with XCP. It's not intended to supplant bitcoin, and that's why it uses the bitcoin blockchain instead of splintering off diverting resources on attempting to secure a secondary chain.  It's simply a meta-layer that was designed to deal with the very real limitations of the bitcoin scripting engine

And as 3) goes, I agree and largely prefer to support solutions that I think will are complimentary to bitcoin for exactly that reason. If something is built on bitcoin, or incorporates bitcoin it expands it's user base,  increases the user base concerned with securing it, increases it's exposure and ergo overall value proposition



this is a new account but  I've been around for quite a while. Taken many breaks and just check in occasionally.  
So many alts are shit so I understand why people just don't touch them anymore. however I get sick sometimes with people shitting on "gimmicky" alts without truly understanding the reason for their existance or their use cases or giving realistic arguments against them.

A few years ago I had a simple use case: I wanted to use the blockchain to create a "database" of sorts.
why use the blockchain instead of a normal database?  In a nutshell; it's a transparent, globally shared, self-replicating, immutable ledger. It enables open, peer-to-peer, real-time settlement without the need for financial intermediaries. Nothing else quite like it.  

After experiencing more exchange hacks and scams than I ever imagined I felt nautious and completely exasperated with the state of the bitcoin ecosystem. Mtgox debacle topped it all off because I couldn't beleive anyone was still using gox after the first hack  Ironically this decentralised currencies biggest pitfall was users trusting centralized parties with their private keys. A shambles. Having been around in the early days, and going back and re-discovering early markets code in the reference client I don't beleive this is what satoshi ever intended.

I realised that using CounterParty's Protocol-based trustless escrow possible to to create a token, to distribute this token to users and allow the users to send this token to each other completely without counterparty risk. If a user wants to exchange one token for another token they are able to atomically swap via a decentralized, deterministic order matching engine. Perhaps I'm dreamng big but I think the implications for such a thing is potentially huge.  
At the time (and today) that was NOT possible with any other solution. Literally didn't exist.

 I heard individuals in the past say why do we need an altcoin to create a token, when we can use colored coins, without realising you can create a token using counterparty with bitcoin and nothing more. then people say well why do you need an altcoin for any element? AFAIK nobody has a way to swap tokens in a decentralized manner without a proxy coin. All this sidechains talk is unproven but should it become proven and real, counterparty would too be useless. I'm only investing in it now because although clearly next to nobody uses it right now and it has plenty of pitfalls, it exists and is real, and I think it has certain applications. I have seen external money back those same assertions too, therefore I see a profit potential. Same story with ETH. Years ago  that wasn't true of anything aside from bitcoin proper.



Hi Anonymint.
As an example, just pulling up an old link here from 2 years ago: http://counterparty.io/news/introducing-fully-trustless-games-on-blockchain/   (do you think this is total bullshit, or actually something interesting?)
Read quite a few of your posts before but don't believe you've ever gone into depth on Counterparty. would genuinely be interested to hear your views on why you think it is flawed.
Does it bring nothing new to the table?

You can track them..

Watch as they try to defend what ever they are investing in.. then how they cry SCAMMER !!!!1111
Later..

I am tired of hearing it.

Screw 'em.
Why do i have to be treated like dog shit for trying to warn users ?
Why do ALL the older users here warn these guys ?

The altcoin scene died a long loooong time ago.
All i see are the 1,000's of desperate maggots left here.
It's disgusting.
If this was 2012 ETH (for example) would not even have been able to get going.. for obvious reasons.
it would have been flamed off the board !
..like Ripple was back then.

These new faggots showed up and screwed up the scene with their corrupt greedy antics.
You supported Doge coin ?
Your a cancerous piece of shit .

Who made 2.0 platforms ?
the same faggots who made the 1st 7000+ shit coins.

And the term is just more buzzword bullshit too.

I already responded to this topic already posted before so i will not rehash technically my reply
i am fed up with repeating myself 100's of times..

Reminds me of the iGotSpots scam topic..
Spots warned you all.. I warned you all.. BCX warned you all.. TPTB_need_war  warned you all..
And you shit heads expect me to have sympathy for you whining on that Scam topic that you got taken on Gorilla coin or something ?
Serves you right you little idiots.. go fuck yourselves.
Did i see you "Investors" warning others before hand ?
FUCK NO !
You ignored ALL warnings then poured cash all over the scheme then LATER when you didn't make money from it
THEN and ONLY then did you call out the big bad evil scammer.
As usual you greedy pieces of shit just loiter around silently ignoring any scams
..as long as you can make money off them.
But god forbid you are the "Lower" guy on the Pyramid scheme LOL

Hey i got a great idea.. Cry FUD
Then when you don't profit off the scheme then.. cry Scammer hahahha
Oh Crypto .. you so Legit  

PLeeze miuster caen i haz buy's yur IPO coin;z  
I caan sends you ma money fr0m teh banks !!!11
Pleeeze mister i need 2 buy my f1rst pa1r of shoies !!!

BITCOINTALK: responsible for 3rd World Shoe ownership WORLD WIDE !

Are there more fools to buy this shit and lose their money, as they are about to by buying ETH at nosebleed prices.

@Newbie / OP

"2.0 platform?"

Sounds like (and is) gay gimmicky BS.

EDIT:
Round them all up that have that title and tell me what they have in common.

FLO is a good coin. I should buy some more of that one.

I have hope that some of these small altcoins can blow up huge once they switch to a 3.0 technology that scales. Most of them are just weak bitcoin clones.

to the OP's title question.

1) i'm yet to see a so called 2.0 platform that's an improvement on bitcoin's blockchain (however there is quiet a few so called copy paste alts that improve on bitcoin funnily enough). just because its original code doesn't automatically make it better.
 
2) most 2.0 type devs have lost the plot on the entire point of p2p currency ie being an alternative to the banks (eg not trying to create a backend platform for the banks).
also whats the point in being an alternative to the banks if we ourselves become the greedy bankers.

3) if we just jump onto the latest platform plugged as the most 'innovative' all the time, no platform will achieve mass adoption. adoption is way more important then the latest crazy in innovation to sell snake oil.
we are simple trying to create a currency, tis not a mission to mars.

Its fun when people try to brand their shit as 2.0, and nobody here takes that bait anymore.

sorry cryptocoins arent cell phone network buzzwords :/

You should have been invested into 2.0 technologies in 2014 and 2015. Now we need a 3.0 technology that uses PoS, smart contracts and also has decentralized storage and content delivery. Synereo is the closest thing to a 3.0 tech but they're so over valued. Not much profits to be had with them.

Profits seem to be drying up all around as bigger investors are getting involved. It removes the ability to become a millionaire with $1,000. Now the millionaires try to double their money and they're happy. The small people aren't so happy.

Hi Marc,

I'm aware of NXT's existence and still hold a small stake traded from jl777 some time ago   (also own some XEM)  BTER hack and roll back discussion was an unfortunate circumstance kicking off a decline in price
Never was a fan of the distribution mechanism but loved the platform itself . The fast block times were a major advantage compared to platforms built on bitcoin.
I don't believe it was the first with a decentralized exchange or issuance system but agree on the PoS and messaging portion of your message. It had (and still does have) a lot of innovation going for it and I distinctly remember the well designed & intuitive wallet being a breath of fresh air.

The lack of inclusion of NXT in the list does not mean it's not a 2.0 project. It clearly is, however the list above simply showcases external industry interest/partnerships and so forth. Because traditionally this is something alts never had, so I'm trying to cherrypick the examples that are garnering interest.

As far as I could see there are no recent press releases announcing companie(s) adopting NXT as a base layer tech stack, or leveraging NXT at all outside of our own insular cryptocoin commnity boards. If I'm wrong and there is, then I'm interested I'll include it.
 

I think platforms build on top of bitcoin have the problem that bitcoin blockchain is slow, as well as not easy to build on. Due to this, actual trading on that blockchain is not practical. I think this is why Counterparty it's own trading platform DEX is not taking off, instead people just launch their assets there and then move most shares to centralised exchanges like poloniex for actual trading.

As a consequence, if you want to buy any of these assets you need to go to poloniex for the best prices/highest liquidity, same for omni/mastercoin by the way. For me this means they failed in building a decentralized exchange as counterparty risk is still huge and withdrawing your assets to the blockchain probably a pain in the ass, if at all possible.

The future doesn't look much better as it seems bitcoin blockchain will not just be slow but become also expensive to use.