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Topic: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. - page 3. (Read 11263 times)

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 587
Space Lord
I think bitcoin is dropping because merchants are selling the bitcoins they received during christmas shopping. When those who spent bitcoin replenish their bitcoin holdings, price will rise again.
Most merchants use Coinbase, which means the merchant never owns Bitcoins at all. Coinbase then dumps their incoming Bitcoins on Bitstamp, so they can pay the merchant in fiat. Thus, all the holiday season transactions are over.

Doesn't Coinbase have its own exchange?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
I couldn't agree with this more:

The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.

The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite.



Well I did give one source to my argument. But just research currency swap agreements over the last year of news especially the Yuan and also the BRICS bank which is clearly hoping to become the new IMF and alternative to the dollar system.

I am aware of all these developments, but why does this mean that the dollars crash is imminent? These kinda of plays will take years to commence.


I think the arguemnt is their are many complicated deriveratives that like like they are 'breaking' so you are seeing unusual counterintuitive signs like the rise of the dollar. The truth is we are in uncharted times, I personally believe almost no one understands deriveratives that's the whole point is they are on purpose exotic and incomprehensible. Many would argue the fincancial system already collapses in 2008 sin e then the FED has just pumped blood into a dead body and zero interests rates is unpresidented. I would argue the reason people can't see all this is because they are given another narrative by the MSM which is patently false.


My point is I'm giving an alternative view to what most are saying, that is my point. Cause 99.9% of people think the dollar rise and Bitcoins drop against it is evidence of strength of the dollar system, I'm saying it could be the opposite. Hearing only one opinion is not being well informed.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
I think bitcoin is dropping because merchants are selling the bitcoins they received during christmas shopping. When those who spent bitcoin replenish their bitcoin holdings, price will rise again.
Most merchants use Coinbase, which means the merchant never owns Bitcoins at all. Coinbase then dumps their incoming Bitcoins on Bitstamp, so they can pay the merchant in fiat. Thus, all the holiday season transactions are over.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.



Currencies never collapse over decades they collapse more than often before people can get to their banks. The writing has been already on the wall for decades. I would argue since the FED was set up which actually is exactly 100 years....

Ok, I'll bite. Let's say there is a run on all the banks tomorrow and no one in the world is willing to use the dollar. It finally meets its deserved death. People all across the U.S. refuse to go to work. Production all but ceases to exist. People are starving to death because there's nothing to trade for food. What currency fills the vaccum left in international trade? Bitcoin? How does it come to be implimented. Is it taken over by the U.S. government to fix the problem or is it used by Muslems to destroy the evil satan once and for all?

My point is the dollar has nothing to do with the direction of Bitcoin at this point other than the value of Bitcoin is pegged to the dollar. Recessions and economic crisis are going to happen but that isn't going to help Bitcoin.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I couldn't agree with this more:

The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.

The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite.

Google "de-dollarization" and read some zerohedge.com if you're curious about the "dollars days are numbered" point of view.

Without sounding arrogant I read zerohedge all the time. I just don't agree with their conclusions.

Same with Jim Willie. I think they make some good points but I think the magnitude effect these occurrences will have on the financial system is currently limited.
member
Activity: 184
Merit: 10
Qidex Exchange
I couldn't agree with this more:

The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.

The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite.

Google "de-dollarization" and read some zerohedge.com if you're curious about the "dollars days are numbered" point of view.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")?
If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .
Just Quoting my brother here .

What're some alternatives? And how do they compare to Bitcoin?

I hold gold and silver but Bitcoin's portability make it a lot easier to hide and travel with. Also gold has already been confiscated by .Gov so I see no reason that that couldn't happen again. I guess you have things that you could barter with like liquor, guns/ammo, food items. But these aren't typically seen as a store of value. Typically those who think shit will hit the fan economically want no paper assets, so in my mind math-based assets that can't be forged and are extremely portable make a lot of sense.



I completely agree with you. Gold and silver are the traditional way to hold value and Imwouod never say Bitcoinmos superior to them ever. But Bitcoin has anominity and better transport going for it. A balanced view would be assets, including property, precious metals and digital currencies. And the reality is if it did all go MAD MAX which I'm not convinced it will then you might need guns if mayhem ensues and food stores. In the end you can't eat Gold.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I couldn't agree with this more:

The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.

The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite.



Well I did give one source to my argument. But just research currency swap agreements over the last year of news especially the Yuan and also the BRICS bank which is clearly hoping to become the new IMF and alternative to the dollar system.

I am aware of all these developments, but why does this mean that the dollars crash is imminent? These kinda of plays will take years to commence.

I am not having a dig im just curious how people come to these conclusions.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
I couldn't agree with this more:

The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.

The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite.



Well I did give one source to my argument. But just research currency swap agreements over the last year of news especially the Yuan and also the BRICS bank which is clearly hoping to become the new IMF and alternative to the dollar system.
member
Activity: 184
Merit: 10
Qidex Exchange
The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")?
If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .
Just Quoting my brother here .

What're some alternatives? And how do they compare to Bitcoin?

I hold gold and silver but Bitcoin's portability make it a lot easier to hide and travel with. Also gold has already been confiscated by .Gov so I see no reason that that couldn't happen again. I guess you have things that you could barter with like liquor, guns/ammo, food items. But these aren't typically seen as a store of value. Typically those who think shit will hit the fan economically want no paper assets, so in my mind math-based assets that can't be forged and are extremely portable make a lot of sense.
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 502
Dont buy yet, the rice will keep going down and down and down wait till it hits 50 to 75 bucks then maybe think of buying. I wish it would just drop there faster so everyone will start buying it again HAHA.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")?
If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .
Just Quoting my brother here .


I was talking to a friend about digital currencies today and he said I don't believe in digital currency is just made up out of thin air and said he only wants cold hard cash he can hold in his hands. Then he preceded to pay with his meal with a credit card....
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I couldn't agree with this more:

The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.

The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")?
If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .
Just Quoting my brother here .
member
Activity: 184
Merit: 10
Qidex Exchange
All I'm hearing from the forum is the imminent death of bitcoin due to the relatively small drop in price in dollar terms of Bitcoin. I see this as an early sign that a financial collapse is approaching and therefore the perfect time for wise investors to buy. I don't know if people are familiar with the work of Jim Willie of the Golden Jackass but I recommend him, he's fringy and controversial but he has always said that the sign the system is collapsing and the dollar is on its death bed will be a massive rise in the dollar not a drop.

This also is a sign of a deriveratives implosion too. I think we will go lower, very low in fact (in dollar terms) and then we will get a spike up that will shock even seasoned bitcoiners. The absolutely only reason I'm not buying Bitcoin is I have no available fiat. If you are holding dollars then anytime from now is a good time to buy if you hold a longer tem perspective.

http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/01/harvey-organ-derivatives-meltdown-has-begun/

Is there a known phenomenon in markets in which a currency/asset has a crazy rise before an epic crash? That's how I see Wall Street, the dollar, etc right now. I'm going to check out this Jim Willie fella cause what you're saying he's saying resonates with what I feel is happening.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.



Currencies never collapse over decades they collapse more than often before people can get to their banks. The writing has been already on the wall for decades. I would argue since the FED was set up which actually is exactly 100 years....
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
This isn't going to be one of those threads where everyone strokes each other until the final climax on page 5 is it? Think deeply about the arguments presented and look at both sides. For example, "the dollar is dying and Bitcoin will rise from the ashes" debate. Is the dollar really dying and is Bitcoin capable of replacing it?

Quote
The dying dollar (economic forecaster, Gary Shilling)

1. Economic Productivity

Among developed nations the U.S. has had the strongest productivity over the last decade. For example, the U.S. averaged 2.2%, Japan 1.6%, U.K. 1.2%, Germany 0.9%, Canada 0.9%, France 0.8%, and Italy flat. When you consider the deflationary trends now at work in emerging markets and other developed nations, Gary believes that U.S. productivity will continue to outperform and help keep the dollar strong.

2. The World’s Largest Economy

The dominant currency is typically found in the world’s largest economy and the U.S. is head-and-shoulders above the rest. As Gary points out, in 2012 U.S. GDP was $15.7 trillion. The second closest, China, was nearly half the size at $8.2 trillion. If you think China is about to overtake the U.S. in terms of size, Gary says “China would have to grow 12% a year for 20 years to catch up…it’s now down at about 7.5% growth and as the Chinese economy shifts away from being driven by exports…away from infrastructure, away from heavy borrowing, and so on, their growth is going to grow even more slowly.”

3. Deep and Broad Financial Markets

Here, Gary writes, “Internationally, money—especially today when it can be transferred anywhere in a split second—wants to be where the action is. That requires not only a powerful and large economy but also deep and broad markets in which to invest. Today, the U.S. Treasury market trumps all others in size and, in the eyes of investors…, in safety as witnessed by the mad rush into Treasury bonds in times of recent global trouble."

Similarly, he states, “American stock market capitalization is four times that of China, Japan or the U.K. and is over three times the Eurozone's…Almost 50% of Treasuries are held by foreigners but only 9.1% of Japan's government net debt is owned by non-Japanese. According to the IMF, 62% of the world's currency reserves are in dollars. The 24% in euros is down from 29% four years ago. Foreigners so love investing in the U.S. that at the end of 2012, it exceeded U.S. investment abroad by $4.4 trillion, up from $4 trillion a year earlier.”

4. Free and Open Financial Markets and Economy

“Investors want to go where it’s free and open; they don’t like China. China periodically freezes their currency. They did that for example during the Great Recession. They had let it float up but then they froze it when they got worried. They’re now letting it float a bit, but they turn it on, they turn it off. Other currencies are much less free to people moving out. They typically manipulate currencies in a lot of places. The Swiss, for example…froze their currency 1.2 to the Euro when everybody wanted to be in the Swiss Franc because they worried that a strong currency would kill their exports to the Eurozone, which is their major trading partner.”

5. Lack of Substitutes

“Things can change over time but one statistic that I think is very important is global forex trading. Now, there’s two sides to this so the numbers add up to 200%, not 100%, because for every sale there’s a buy. But if you look at the trading, in 2001, the U.S. dollar accounted for 90% of all the daily trading in currencies. In 2013, it’s down from 90% to 87%. But if you think of all that’s happened in that time, the euro currency had come in, China has gotten stronger, etc. But it still has only declined 3 percentage points and it’s way ahead of anything else. The second one today is the euro at 33% versus [the USD at] 87%, the yen 23%, sterling 12%—in other words, this is the currency that people transact.”

6. Credibility

“The sixth characteristic is credibility. And that’s the only one where you can say there’s been any questioning of the dollar. And it is true that last year that Standard & Poor’s did downgrade the U.S. from triple AAA to AA+, but that hasn’t really hurt. You might remember that when they did that, Treasuries actually rallied…and it has not changed the willingness of foreigners to put money into dollar denominated assets. So, the credibility issue is the only one that is not absolutely triple-A, but it hasn’t had any decided effects so far.”

Everywhere you see the word dollar above replace it with Bitcoin. Does the article still work? Why is Bitcoin really falling? The only answer I can see to that question that seems real is that market forces (buying and selling) are changing the price of Bitcoin. The daily direction is anyone's guess. The question is, do you think Bitcoin still has a future? I do.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
1100 to 270 cant be seen as "relatively small" by any standard



It absolutely can and is by the standard set by the overal rise. Take any stock in the Dow Jones buy it and see the price rise 30,000% and then see how worried you will be if it drops 300% It's negligible.

I'm sorry of you bought in at the peak of Euphoria stage but don't then make the same mistake to think it won't regain that price and more just as easily.


compared to past drops the chart almost makes it look like a sideways move compared to past drops.

https://afbitcoins.wordpress.com
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