Topic: Why Bitcoin is ultimately doomed to fail (not today or tomorrow) - page 21. (Read 40874 times)

Actually your entire thesis is incorrect and you missed the point of the links I provided in a prior post.

If someone pays you face value for your gold coins, you and they will both be taxed as if you gave them incremental commodity value as a gift. So they will pay income taxes on that portion.

My links showed someone tried to pay payroll using face value of coins and it was ruled he under-reported payroll.

There is no escape for this. You must include the commodity value in the tax calculation when it is transferred.

This doesn't render payment of taxes with gold coins at their face value either impossible or eligible for taxing the commodity value of them (which was your point). You can't pay an income tax on an income that you didn't get (that was my point)...

And who would be stupid enough to do that?

People are stupid, but that not that stupid. Most of them can count.

It seems that you don't understand what I mean. Your examples only look relevant to my point, though in fact they are quite the opposite of what I mean. If you pay taxes with gold coins at their face value instead of paper dollars (i.e. taxes total being equal coins face value total), you effectively end up paying more than you would pay if you previously sold your coins at their market price and paid the original tax plus the tax due to the commodity value of your coins. How can you possibly be charged for tax evasion if you end up paying more than needed?

I'm not talking here about accepting payments in gold coins, then reporting face value as income

Yes.

You spent or received the coin which has a commodity value above and beyond its very low face value, e.g. gold 1oz US Eagles have a $50 face value yet are worth $1300.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/employers-gold-silver-payroll-standard-may-bring-hard-time
http://www.rapidtrends.com/robert-kahre-vs-the-irs-and-doj/
http://www.dailypaul.com/210328/can-i-accept-payments-in-gold-report-face-value-as-income

Do you mean to say that if you pay a tax with gold coins at their face-value just like you would do with paper dollars (this is my point, and I specifically mentioned that), I will have to pay additional taxes for the income which I might but didn't actually receive?

No. If you don't pay the commodity portion of the tax due, you will go to prison and/or pay hefty fines. There are cases already.

That was exactly my point. Is it really possible to pay taxes directly (i.e. bypassing banks and that kind of things) with gold and silver coins in the USA at their market price?

If these gold coins are minted by that country's mint than yes, they are legal tender in that country at their face-value. But this is still a foreign currency in other jurisdictions, so I doubt it strongly that you could officially pay taxes directly with them anywhere in the world except a country of origin...

How about gold coins etc. Aren't those a legal tender in many countries alongside with the nation currency?

It is the epic idiocy of a "scarce" currency. It incentivizes the SOS with FRB. Besides that and much sooner, there will always be alt-coins inflating the supply regardless.

True. and the fact that the banks and every other "expert" in financial publications is trying to convince people that Bitcoin is "bad" risk  and "you will never see your money again". Or that bitcoin is only used by criminals ( like an article in the financial times that hinted on that which I find poor taste.). The same arguments can be implemented when discussing the use of physical monetary systems. up to 90% of the US bills have cocaine and/or other drugs on them.
It can also be argued that because the banks and their efficiant lobby system is creating such a fuss about crypto currencies is that they are feeling threatened by it. Why? because they can't control or skim of some of the daily earnings. SO there is no money in it for the banks(or they just need to buy bitcoins and start trading like everybody else ). Now IF a bank came up with the idea of crypto currency and worked it out it would be heralded in the media as the "new holy grail" of doing business etc.
So if the governments accept bitcoin as a "legal currency" there will be a huge set of restrictions and the whole tshebeng will under the supervision and control of the banks or bank related institutions. That way they can take their part of the daily trade in bitcoin and other crypto currencies.
If the governments don't accept it  well it can go different ways. If a government, say the US, finds or fabricates "evidence" that some terrorist douchbags are using bitcoins or other currencies they could confiscate every single bitcoin from its citizens. It can and it will see the amendments to the constitution and even that isn't necessary. Just blame it on the NSA or CIA or FBI and  when public opinion is running against the ruling elite just fire the top dog of those institutions, use the media to smear it out and focus on the "new CIA, NSA, FBI or whatever organisation
It may be far fetched for some but Ive been around a while and seen a lot of this backstabbing, double standards, back alley trading, and manipulative behavior that it wouldn't surprise me when it happens.

I don't know about countries (maybe there are some indeed) where more than one currency was declared as legal tender nowadays. If we proceed from your assumption that some state would establish bitcoin as legal tender, we might as well expect establishing bitcoin instead of its today's legal tender (fiat currency), right? If you assume that some government would set bitcoin as second legal tender on par with fiat currency, then Gresham's law would inevitably kick in, so why would they?

Or, are you misusing the term legal tender too?

Why would you ask something like that? Who said anything about dropping fiat currencies 

Why would authorities want to drop their fiat currencies in favor of bitcoin? I don't say it is not possible at all, since there are countries like Ecuador (where the US dollar became legal tender in 2000) which don't have an independent money system, and they might actually opt for bitcoin. I'm just curious about the possible reasons behind such a move...

If people keep using it as a currency then it will become a legal tender everywhere. If noone uses bitcoins to buy staff then no authority will declare bitcoins as real money...

Wow, two full pages of the thread just disappeared.

Just get it over with and kick anth0ny from the thread, the guy is seriously staring to rival johnyj for skull thickness.