Why Bitcoin may now level off... - page 4.

Miz4r

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Quote from: Coinseeker on December 03, 2013, 04:50:12 PM

OP makes excellent points. I've raised them in the past myself. Bitcoin has already sold itself as a "whole" Bitcoin, with all the fancy "coin" images on every new story and the fact that it wasn't changed to mBTC sooner. All news pricing is in whole Bitcoins. People don't want to buy fractions of something. They are not stupid.

Actually they are stupid, if they weren't they would understand that this is a non-issue.

Coinseeker

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OP makes excellent points. I've raised them in the past myself. Bitcoin has already sold itself as a "whole" Bitcoin, with all the fancy "coin" images on every new story and the fact that it wasn't changed to mBTC sooner. All news pricing is in whole Bitcoins. People don't want to buy fractions of something. They are not stupid. Either some really big money is going to jump on board and buy up BTC or it could be a long, stagnant road ahead. Since the Bitcoin community still to this day, can not come to consensus on how to denominate Bitcoin, I doubt it will ever happen. Good thing there are alt-coins. My $0.02

niothor

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in defi we trust

Quote from: BittBurger on December 03, 2013, 02:05:06 PM

Quote from: piramida on December 03, 2013, 08:37:11 AM

When I saw bitcoin for the first time, it just finished climbing from 0.10 to $1 and I had exactly your thoughts, OP. I thought - fuck, now I won't buy it anymore and who would if it costs more than a dollar

Yeah but this is a different animal altogether at $1,000.

$1,000 is a thresshold that 99% of stocks never pass .... and 99% never even reach.

That's kind of why Im taking this viewpoint more seriously.

I bet daily on the "1 penny to 1 dollar" chance with alt coins, and have been paid handsomely on nearly every one of them.

Something being at $1,000 and going to $50,000 needs an outside element which pushes up its price.

If its just Sally and Bob buying a Bitcoin on Coinbase .... we're done going up.

-B-

Look who turned out to be a non believer =))))
Oh , god ! how Ionic-Ironic.

bitleif

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I'm always grumpy in the morning.

Quote from: BittBurger on December 03, 2013, 02:05:06 PM

$1,000 is a thresshold that 99% of stocks never pass .... and 99% never even reach.

Sure they do. They just split or emit more stock before they get that far. Nominal values are meaningless except psychologically.

piramida

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Borsche

Yes that is true that the higher we go the larger investments have to be made. but they will be, bitcoin has been on national tv of most countries by now. so the real money are coming, and the longer bitcoin does not collapse, the bigger money are feeling safe here.

As for daily percentage moves, just look at the charts they will answer your questions well. $100 per day is the natural movement of btc price now, about 10% as it was in two and three digit ranges.

BittBurger

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Quote from: piramida on December 03, 2013, 08:37:11 AM

When I saw bitcoin for the first time, it just finished climbing from 0.10 to $1 and I had exactly your thoughts, OP. I thought - fuck, now I won't buy it anymore and who would if it costs more than a dollar

Yeah but this is a different animal altogether at $1,000.

$1,000 is a thresshold that 99% of stocks never pass .... and 99% never even reach.

That's kind of why Im taking this viewpoint more seriously.

I bet daily on the "1 penny to 1 dollar" chance with alt coins, and have been paid handsomely on nearly every one of them.

Something being at $1,000 and going to $50,000 needs an outside element which pushes up its price.

If its just Sally and Bob buying a Bitcoin on Coinbase .... we're done going up.

-B-

EvilPanda

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Small Red and Bad

Quote from: piramida on December 03, 2013, 01:39:41 PM

if there would only be 12mil ounces of gold mined to date, then the price would be quite different - about $500,000 per oz, based on a fact that 174,000 tons of gold are mined to date.

And yes Panda, percentages work that way, what the hell you guys learn in schools these days? The higher the base price, the bigger is every single %.

Sadly not economics or business, rather what's inside a paramecium or what's crime and punishment about. Thankfully there are guys like you willing to explain.

Back to the subject - what makes you think that the price will move by same % daily when BTC reaches 5k or more? Daily movement of 20$ whe the price was 500 was normal. with 5k we would need +/-200$ to keep up. IMO unreal...

Syke

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I gave my old man 5 bitcents for his birthday, worth about $50. Even in his old age he understood .05 btc just fine.

Now when .01 btc reaches $10,000 then we might have a problem. I'm ok with it levelling off there.

Miz4r

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Quote from: BittBurger on December 03, 2013, 01:25:24 PM

Yeah , i just haven't been able to grasp why people say "We will hit $1,000, then $5,000! then the moooooooooooooon!"

What takes us to the moon?

I know what took us to $1,000 ....

----------------- In order for Bitcoin to continue to 5,000, 10,000...etc....
-----------------THERE MUST be something unique about Bitcoin that pushes its price up *EXTERNAL* from the buying and selling on exchanges.

If there is such an element, then my original question in the original post is answered.

If somehow adoption by merchants translates to "increased price per bitcoin" ... then there's the answer to my question.

But does it?

If Bitcoins "per coin" price depends 100% on the buying and selling on exchanges, then we have reached pretty close to our maximum price.

Gold has been around thousands of years and here it sits at $1200 or whatever ....

So what is that unique thing about Bitcoin that pushes it from $1,000 to $2,000 *outside* of the buying/selling/trading on exchanges?

-BittBurger-

What exactly is your argument against the price of bitcoin rising further to $2000 and beyond? I don't see why the exchanges couldn't sustain higher prices, as long as they can handle the volume and the increased amount of fiat on the books. Your point about Gold also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. An ounce of Gold is sitting at $1200 right now, so what? It doesn't explain or say anything at all, what the hell is your point? Huh

piramida

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Borsche

if there would only be 12mil ounces of gold mined to date, then the price would be quite different - about $500,000 per oz, based on a fact that 174,000 tons of gold are mined to date.

And yes Panda, percentages work that way, what the hell you guys learn in schools these days? The higher the base price, the bigger is every single %.

EvilPanda

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Quote from: piramida on December 03, 2013, 12:42:12 PM

you don't know what percentages is right panda? in the first example, you invested 1000, bitcoin went up 6%, you got 60. in your second example, price goes up 2% and you expect the same returns for some reason.

So you think the exchange is gonna go up and down by larger numbers as btc price grows? We will one day end up investing 5k in a single btc just to see the price move by 20$ which will not even cover trading fees.

BittBurger

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Yeah , i just haven't been able to grasp why people say "We will hit $1,000, then $5,000! then the moooooooooooooon!"

What takes us to the moon?

I know what took us to $1,000 ....

----------------- In order for Bitcoin to continue to 5,000, 10,000...etc....
-----------------THERE MUST be something unique about Bitcoin that pushes its price up *EXTERNAL* from the buying and selling on exchanges.

If there is such an element, then my original question in the original post is answered.

If somehow adoption by merchants translates to "increased price per bitcoin" ... then there's the answer to my question.

But does it?

If Bitcoins "per coin" price depends 100% on the buying and selling on exchanges, then we have reached pretty close to our maximum price.

Gold has been around thousands of years and here it sits at $1200 or whatever ....

So what is that unique thing about Bitcoin that pushes it from $1,000 to $2,000 *outside* of the buying/selling/trading on exchanges?

-BittBurger-

piramida

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Borsche

you don't know what percentages is right panda? in the first example, you invested 1000, bitcoin went up 6%, you got 60. in your second example, price goes up 2% and you expect the same returns for some reason.

EvilPanda

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Small Red and Bad

The price is IMO slowing down speculative trading. If you bought BTC for lets say $300, you could get 3 for a 1000 and it went up by 20 you were getting $60. Now you can't even get 1 BTC for that price so if it goes up you get $18 while investing the same 1000. (Ofc not counting the fees).

btcprice

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A lot of the money coming in from China is from big players. They all don't concern themselves with buying fractions if the price gets too high. The only concern should be with the new people considering buying bitcoins who don't know that you can buy fractions. I don't know if there are so many of them that it's holding the price down.

hellfrozenow

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Quote from: BittBurger on December 03, 2013, 12:12:28 AM

Can someone explain to me why people here think a rise from $1,000 to $10,000 could even happen at all, let alone quickly?

I doubt quickly, but once fiat can be changed to Bitcoin easily and quickly (Bank supporting it, Bitcoin ATMs), $10,000 wont last long

piramida

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Borsche

When I saw bitcoin for the first time, it just finished climbing from 0.10 to $1 and I had exactly your thoughts, OP. I thought - fuck, now I won't buy it anymore and who would if it costs more than a dollar, so I can't buy 100 coins for 10 bucks any longer. So I didn't, then.

Now, in retrospective, dollar does not seem like such a bad entry point. So it's a matter of getting used to a certain level. For example, very few people can buy gold by pounds, because 1pound costs around $15000, but alot of people buy gold in smaller quantities and don't see much problem holding 1/2oz coins. Same applies to bitcoin, so no, your logic is invalid. It's just an issue of getting used to 4 digits. When we hit 5, 4-digit coins would seem funnily cheap to you.

Yes, I bought some bitcoins at $1000. 10 times less than I did at $100, but it is exactly the same amount in USD.

jballs

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I don't know anybody who has bought yet.

But after having made a transaction I know that what will happen, is everybody will want to use them to buy things online because it is way better than paypal and banks.

So the answer is 6 billion people will buy a digital currency at some point in time. To them the price will not matter at all.

*You are investing in a medium.*

Miz4r

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Quote from: BittBurger on December 03, 2013, 12:12:28 AM

Can someone please explain to me where the money would come from? Even if India gets on board ... how the heck will their participation affect price?
Its not like a bunch of people in India can start blowing money on $5,000 Bitcoins .

Can someone explain to me why people here think a rise from $1,000 to $10,000 could even happen at all, let alone quickly?

Let's assume there are a total of 2 million people in the entire world holding 6 BTC each on average (not a bad estimate I think). Now let's think about what would happen if 8 million more people got interested in bitcoin recently after reading about it in the papers, and they decide to invest $2000 each on average in bitcoin. Together that means $16 billion will flow into bitcoin, which as you can imagine will push up the price considerably. And 8 million people is still only a tiny fraction of the world population, so $10,000 and higher can be easily reached when more people get interested and start investing a small portion of their wealth.

GriTBitS

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“A decentralized registry for unique assets”

well i dont care if people dont know if bitcoin is divisible they will one day probably after we switch to uBtc. Big pockets dont want the avg joe to know either. The price will go to a million but Joe wont start buying until 100k, then that will push the price to 1 Million if joe is buying at 1k he will be selling all the way to 10k and 100k because normal people dont wanna be rich and will do everything in there power to lose the money to get back to broke. So already they are broke thinking 1k is to much to buy a bitcoin. Not even spending 5 min knowing what bitcoin is divisible. This is a currency for semi intelligent people. If people wanna stay broke thats on them. Same reason people dont buy stock. They dont think they can make a million over night so they buy penny stock only to lose all there money. Same here, people will be buying all the Alts and it will be going up and down never knowing why they cant spend it cuz everyone is still focused on bitcoin going to Da moon. Think 10x a year not 100x a year. Most people that bought at 1200 already sold it at 800 during the dip. They buy things they dont even research.

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