Why Bitcoin must surpass gold - page 2.

Porfirii

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Quote from: PeRo on June 28, 2023, 08:27:07 AM

First of all, Bitcoin and gold aren't the same type of asset or investment so I don't know why it should even be compared. Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency with a fixated market cap and a very different market while gold isn't as limited and it is surely not used as a currency. Why would Bitcoin surpassing gold be a must? I just din't see the connection.

-snip-

We compare everything, even in the case of objects that belong to different categories and are difficult to compare. In those cases we tend to use heuristics and change the difficult question for an easier one, with the risk of making serious mistakes.

Back on topic, I think that it will be interesting to add an updated chart that shows the historical ratio between Bitcoin and gold. Take into account that Y axis is not linear (logarithmic scale):

Source: https://www.longtermtrends.net/bitcoin-vs-gold/

Leaving the fundamentals aside and only taking that trend into account, it seems that Bitcoin's market is maturing since 2017 but from my perspective that ratio has room to grow for at least one or two more cycles if no black swan happens in the meantime.

Quote from: https://www.longtermtrends.net/bitcoin-vs-gold/

Bitcoin and gold are frequently compared as investment assets. Gold has a longstanding reputation as a dependable store of value, often utilized as a hedge against inflation and economic uncertainty. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has emerged as a digital store of value in recent years, garnering attention for its limited supply and decentralized nature. While gold offers stability and tangibility, bitcoin provides advantages such as divisibility, portability, and transparency through its digital infrastructure. Both bitcoin and gold are commonly viewed as means to diversify a portfolio and hedge against inflation resulting from fiat currency debasement.

PeRo

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First of all, Bitcoin and gold aren't the same type of asset or investment so I don't know why it should even be compared. Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency with a fixated market cap and a very different market while gold isn't as limited and it is surely not used as a currency. Why would Bitcoin surpassing gold be a must? I just din't see the connection.

Also, I don't know what backs up the argument that Bitcoin is 10 times stronger. Stronger in exactly which terms? I don't think we should even compare those two assets and I think gold will always be a strong asset as it is now - since whole countries back up their wealth in gold.

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

There is no clear source why bitcoin is able to surpass the price of gold, but some people say because the supply of bitcoin has a limited amount, so when the demand and supply factors exceed the amount, the price will tend to rise. I can't understand what non-credit bitcoin looks like? Even though gold and bitcoin are able to maintain their different values, gold does not have a fluctuating risk like bitcoin because the price of gold tends to be stable while bitcoin is very volatile.

In terms of the price of bitcoin, it has indeed surpassed gold and that's why people consider bitcoin to be the best investment, but when it comes to risks and fluctuations the two are different. Bitcoin is a digital currency while gold is a physical asset, when combining the two it will automatically be different.

Sayeds56

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

If I understand you correctly, you mean Bitcoin is stronger in terms of its market price. It is noteworthy that market cap of Gold significantly surpasses that of Bitcoin. Currently the market cap of Bitcoin stands over a trillion US dollars, whereas Gold market cap is estimated over 12 trillion. This stark difference is because traditionally Gold is perceived by vast population, as most secure and safe heaven investment since centuries. While Bitcoin is relatively new asset class in the modern world, and its widespread adoption will take time to materialize.

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

This shouldn't be a competition, Gold will continue to survive and Bitcoin will always be here to, who cares which is better than the other?

They are both good choices for long-term investment, one is offline and one is online, I think it's a good combination for all smart investors.

I don't care if Bitcoin is twenty times stronger and I don't want to put them head-to-head to know which is better, they are both scare and Gold doesn't need the internet, where as the Bitcoin does.

Let's accept both for what they are.

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

As far as I know it is very feasible and most likely Bitcoin will potentially surpass gold in the future for my small reason is, Bitcoin is the most eyed by many investors as well as several other financial institutions meaning that it shows the great potential power of gold and is seen as a value hedging that works the most at the moment even though it is seen as speculative for people who don't understand BTC. But. it's still very normal.

Ozero

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Quote from: Outhue on June 12, 2023, 04:03:14 AM

The only side where Bitcoin can lead Gold is value, other sides Gold is the winner because Gold needs no regulation, no one is using power on Gold, no government want to take over Gold, it's something you can have with no one knowing you have some Gold.

Bitcoin works with the Internet and it is traceable through the Blockchain scan, brother, Bitcoin has more problem than Gold, volatility is huge problem and Gold is more stable than Bitcoin.

Still, I believe Bitcoin is perfect the way it is, because this is how it was built, let's not forget that the volatility performance of Bitcoin is also a big opportunity too.

It's silly to even compare gold and bitcoin. This is not just different financial assets, but completely opposite in their characteristics and properties. The only thing they have in common is the high price.
In general, bitcoin will not be able to surpass gold. Gold is an eternal value and it looks like it will be so for a very long time. In addition, it is no secret that states do not have a very favorable attitude towards cryptocurrency and its circulation largely depends on the position of states and their regulation of circulation in society.

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Quote from: Woodie on June 18, 2023, 06:52:02 AM

But without siding on any side, I think we can invest in both and collect any gains made by either of them...it's all about having a portfolio with a variety of assets.

But as members of this forum it makes sense to have considerably more bitcoin than gold. Gold is nice, you can touch it, in a small piece you can have thousands of dollars, but it is not digital. I personally have a bit of gold but I think bitcoin is better, although I also think that bitcoin will never completely replace gold, as gold has uses in jewellery and industry that bitcoin, being digital, obviously cannot have.

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If you are going to ask any crypto enthusiasts about which of the two(bitcoin or gold)are better...8 of 10 times everyone would side with Bitcoin to surpass the other..,so will a person that loves to see their hard earned money in form of gold.

At this point, it's safe to assume we comparing oranges and apples here, and we can't separate the two which makes me believe this goes down to preference.

But without siding on any side, I think we can invest in both and collect any gains made by either of them...it's all about having a portfolio with a variety of assets.

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

In terms of its price, the gap between Bitcoin's value and Gold's is now very wide. In addition to that, they also have many differences, because firstly Gold is not volatile like Bitcoin, secondly Gold does not have a blockchain concept.
Although, in other respects they are the same, like as time goes on, its value increases, it can also be used as a currency exchange, but when it comes to the opportunity to make a profit, Gold is very limited, unlike Bitcoin, even if you are a poor person you can own Bitcoin unlike gold you can't.

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Quote from: Patrol69 on June 18, 2023, 05:13:34 AM

On the one hand, Bitcoin is not comparable to gold. Because gold is a recognized metal that is very popular worldwide. Gold is used by people in different ways. Some people buy gold to keep their money safe and others use it as jewelry but Bitcoin is only a digital currency. Bitcoin is not as popular globally as gold. There's a reason why gold is so popular because people have been using gold since ancient times and are familiar with it, but not Bitcoin. Bitcoin and gold are two different metals and currencies. Just as gold cannot replace bitcoin, bitcoin cannot replace gold. Two different metals and coins are at different places in terms of popularity.

It is confusing how many people are still trying to compare bitcoin to gold when they are completely different, and what if bitcoin wins or bitcoin loses? Will we give up gold and just use bitcoin, or will we give up bitcoin to just use gold if either side wins? Both are assets used in different use cases, and each has its pros and cons. If we are intelligent people, we should not waste time comparing them, instead take advantage of each type to come up with the best use cases.

Patrol69

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On the one hand, Bitcoin is not comparable to gold. Because gold is a recognized metal that is very popular worldwide. Gold is used by people in different ways. Some people buy gold to keep their money safe and others use it as jewelry but Bitcoin is only a digital currency. Bitcoin is not as popular globally as gold. There's a reason why gold is so popular because people have been using gold since ancient times and are familiar with it, but not Bitcoin. Bitcoin and gold are two different metals and currencies. Just as gold cannot replace bitcoin, bitcoin cannot replace gold. Two different metals and coins are at different places in terms of popularity.

CageMabok

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BTC can be kept online however gold needs physical place

That's just a very basic difference between the two and it's also very reasonable because so far it's never been a problem for those who keep it. I also have both now and store them well without any problems, so very basic things like this I don't think need to be told because those who have both of them will certainly know for themselves how to store them in a place that suits their nature. And you can have both if you like both assets now.

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Quote from: justdimin on June 14, 2023, 12:09:58 AM

Quote from: lepbagong on June 13, 2023, 05:50:41 AM

Quote from: greek_hephaestus on June 12, 2023, 01:23:03 PM

Both are good and both are having different usage and compare that you have any reason is there and compare both there is an any usage given and compare both i will use both and i invest in both ,gold not having profit and also they gave a security at the same time the bitcoin given lot of income and also lot of danger given anyway secure my property and for more profit i will use both.

I think something is good to do for both because they both provide benefits, even though in the end it requires a lot of funds to be able to get both.
Gold is very popular because in some developing countries it is still considered pride and accessories to equip themselves apart from investment, but since crypto has begun to move they also want to invest in crypto. is a choice and that's fine.

Not just that but because fiat keeps losing value over course of many years, we are seeing a lot more people end up with a trouble when we are talking about a big amount of gold. If you invest into gold and your nations currency gets devalued, you kept your purchasing power still, because gold goes up as much as the devaluation of fiat most of the time, even if it doesn't happen quickly, it gets there with time.

Same could be considered for bitcoin as well, it does go up when inflation happens and drops when there are high rates, so the logic stands the same but the difference is that it's digital and can be spent as well. This is why it makes more sense to do it this way and invest into bitcoin, it's the better version of gold.

Your point of view raises key issues regarding the place of gold and cryptocurrencies in a diverse portfolio. Gold and cryptocurrencies indeed have distinctive merits, yet, is it financially viable for an average investor to dive into both?

The potential devaluation of fiat currency, you mentioned, accentuates the benefits of gold and Bitcoin. Gold usually retains its worth due to its limited, tangible nature. Bitcoin, with a set supply and operating independently of banks, does too. However, shouldnt market instability and associated risks also be a concern?

Lastly, your provocative stance that Bitcoin outshines gold is worth noting. Bitcoin' digital essence and potential utility indeed separate it from gold. But, doesnt its intangibility and the uncertain regulatory environment pose a risk?

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

Bitcoin is already more expensive than gold.So the discussion that Bitcoin goes beyond gold is called worthless.Bitcoin is non-credit so BTC will be ten times stronger then gold this thoughts is not true.To replace Bitcoin instead of gold needs to be strong in many aspects such as: Gold does not depend on software, it has its own value that will last a lifetime, in this case, Bitcoin has no existence of its own, which is completely dependent on computer networks and software.BTC can be stolen by malware but in gold propose it is quite impossible.Gold is legal everywhere in the world but Bitcoin is not legal everywhere in the world. Anything can be exchanged with gold but not yet possible with Bitcoin.The worst thing is that there is a possibility that bitcoin will be worthless during blackout but gold won't be worthless in blackout.There are some things that bitcoin is better than gold definitely.That is, at a certain time the profit made by investing in bitcoin will more then by investing in gold.Investing in BTC profit can be double or triple or even more but investment in gold is not same profit as in BTC.So risk with investment in BTC is always better option then gold.

thecodebear

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Agreed. Bitcoin is far better at being a currency than Gold ever was, by orders of magnitude. And while the world will continue to run off credit economies and fiat currencies, there is a huge space and need for a hard non-credit based currency like Bitcoin. And it is exceedingly unlikely there will be any challengers to Bitcoin in this space. Between using such a thing for store of value, savings, and spending, in addition to possible other future uses of Bitcoin (since it is programmable afterall, who knows what higher layer functions may grow on top of it), I'd say the applicable economy space of Bitcoin is at least several tens of trillions of dollars, versus the roughly 12 trillion dollars or whatever Gold is at now. I'd put the likely total value of Bitcoin at 5x Gold, so about 100x Bitcoin's current economic size. And that's assuming fiat national currencies still retain the dominant currency position and Bitcoin is just an alternative.

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Quote from: lepbagong on June 13, 2023, 05:50:41 AM

Quote from: greek_hephaestus on June 12, 2023, 01:23:03 PM

Both are good and both are having different usage and compare that you have any reason is there and compare both there is an any usage given and compare both i will use both and i invest in both ,gold not having profit and also they gave a security at the same time the bitcoin given lot of income and also lot of danger given anyway secure my property and for more profit i will use both.

I think something is good to do for both because they both provide benefits, even though in the end it requires a lot of funds to be able to get both.
Gold is very popular because in some developing countries it is still considered pride and accessories to equip themselves apart from investment, but since crypto has begun to move they also want to invest in crypto. is a choice and that's fine.

Not just that but because fiat keeps losing value over course of many years, we are seeing a lot more people end up with a trouble when we are talking about a big amount of gold. If you invest into gold and your nations currency gets devalued, you kept your purchasing power still, because gold goes up as much as the devaluation of fiat most of the time, even if it doesn't happen quickly, it gets there with time.

Same could be considered for bitcoin as well, it does go up when inflation happens and drops when there are high rates, so the logic stands the same but the difference is that it's digital and can be spent as well. This is why it makes more sense to do it this way and invest into bitcoin, it's the better version of gold.

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Quote from: atuzai660619 on June 10, 2023, 04:00:36 AM

There are two reasons. First, Bitcoin is a non-credit currency ten times stronger than gold. So unless Bitcoin is replaced. Otherwise he must surpass gold. Second, Bitcoin is close to being the ideal non-credit currency, and it is basically impossible to have another non-credit currency beyond Bitcoin. Combine these two points and Bitcoin is bound to surpass gold

These are the things to say I know Bitcoin has great community support and it has the potential to be the market King and it has many unique characteristics. In front of the Gold Bitcoin is just a newborn baby don't get offended but it's the reality Gold is being used since ancient times, Sometimes as currency sometimes as a Store of value. To reach the Lagace of Gold Bitcoin needs time at least a decade in view because currently the adoption rate is too low + there is a great war ongoing against the economic system.

Flexystar

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Define what is non crediting asset or currency is? I am not sure if I ever heard something like this about any currency which carries high value with as much as five figures. Now that’s mismatch and secondly I’m really not into comparing the Bitcoin and Gold because that discussion has been done thousands of times in this forum and everywhere over the internet. The only output I ever read is they are incomparable and has got no similarities in terms of asset. It starts with one being physical and second one being digital. There are more in the list but it’s vague anyways.

jeraldskie11

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We all know that gold has previously been proven to be a safe investment with minimal volatility and a low risk of losing value. That is why I can't disagree with folks who prefer Gold over Bitcoin. In terms of ROI, I like Bitcoin because you can possibly make more money that you invested in a year. I understand that the higher the volatility, the greater the risk, but Bitcoin is not like altcoins. I believe Bitcoin will not return to zero. When there is a significant drop in price, I believe it will rise again to reach and break its ATH in the future.

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