Why bitcoin prices are always very unstable

xcapator

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"Value" is always a subjective concept (subjective): it may be of value to people, but not to others, much less different, depending on time and in different locations. Do not forget that the value of anything longer be determined by the law of supply and demand.

yeah... people are deriving the value of BTC based on the markets, which only represent a small portion of the market capitalization, and are subject to sudden drastic changes. You want to buy an apple with bitcoin, people check price against the markets, but the markets only hold about 5% of the volume, and only 10% of that is being actively traded

wesk1212

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Quote from: yokosan on September 27, 2014, 07:33:29 AM

Only if you are looking at rate to $

This guy is so confused.

painlord2k

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In related news:
Bulls make Money;
Bears make Money;
Pigs get slaughtered.

traderbit

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speculators will continue to whine, cry and beg ,This is just bitcoin nature, unstable. good time to buy some

karmabot

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Is it maybe not a good sign that the price is kind of volatile? Of course only in the case that it doesn't vary by more than, let's say 20% within 24 hours.
It is not a secret that a large amount of XBT is in the hands of a small group (just like FIAT, right?). These guys can literally steer the value. Even though we don't really know who this group is, can we not assume that they also share interest in the currency? And thus "manipulate" to its good? It is like a quasi-decentralization - hopefully with people behind the system that want to adjust the course in a good way, to establish stability.
Wouldn't the outing of major XBT holders increase trust and therewith price stability?

TheLoser

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The price of Bitcoin is unstable because whoever controls the price is unstable.

youngwallst

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Quote from: runam0k on October 10, 2014, 06:40:42 AM

Quote from: btckold24 on October 10, 2014, 04:42:02 AM

Quote from: PenAndPaper on September 27, 2014, 07:53:36 AM

Because of the poor liquidity... Even moderate orders can move the price up or down big time.

Gonna have to go with this response IMHO

The correct response. Anyone with an inkling of how capital markets work will realise liquidity in Bitcoin is a serious issue. We only just got our very first regulated derivative FFS. We have a long way to go but ultimately liquidity will bring price stability.

im working on a vertically integrated financial services for people with liquidity, among other things... This makes a lot of sense. Aside from just liquidity, there needs to be a next wave of innovation that utilizes more advanced uses of the new Bitcoin Core. I have a few ideas, just need a good programmer as I only have one other person working with me atm. But def +1 the response..

CryptoCarmen

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Quote from: xinxi on October 13, 2014, 12:21:31 AM

Quote from: BTCmoons on October 12, 2014, 11:08:30 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on October 12, 2014, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

The bots were purchasing on behalf of speculators with a lot of money. It is not a conspiracy.

Zoznoz is likely correct to say that speculators were trying to profit from quick and massive bitcoin adoption but the chinese government was able to stem this in their country. I would anticipate them easing off these bans/regulations over the long term as they become more of a free market economy

Is there any evidence on the use of bots?

You can easily detect bot on exchange. just add and remove one offer and you wil see that one at some designated % of what you placed will immediately appear on market.
Bots dont manipulate market, they just make you really hard to sell bitcoins for fiat or sell fiat for bitcoins, but force you to buy them and pay more and get less.

Bots actually make exchanges more stable, since there si more BTC on offer and more fiat on offer.

fewcoins

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Quote from: BTCmoons on October 13, 2014, 10:04:37 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on October 13, 2014, 08:20:44 PM

Quote from: xinxi on October 13, 2014, 12:21:31 AM

Quote from: BTCmoons on October 12, 2014, 11:08:30 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on October 12, 2014, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

The bots were purchasing on behalf of speculators with a lot of money. It is not a conspiracy.

Zoznoz is likely correct to say that speculators were trying to profit from quick and massive bitcoin adoption but the chinese government was able to stem this in their country. I would anticipate them easing off these bans/regulations over the long term as they become more of a free market economy

Is there any evidence on the use of bots?

It was covered widely in the media.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/29/bitcoin-bots-bought-millions-in-the-last-days-of-mt-gox

I agree that bots were certainly used, however I don't think there is evidence that the bots were used to manipulate the prices. From what I can tell the willy bot was only a way that whales were able to buy up large amounts of bitcoin without suffering excess slippage.

So the willy bot wasn't huge manipulation for a manipulated exchange that stole everybody's coins???

xcapator

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Quote from: pitham1 on October 14, 2014, 08:45:14 PM

Quote from: BTCmoons on October 13, 2014, 10:04:37 PM

I agree that bots were certainly used, however I don't think there is evidence that the bots were used to manipulate the prices. From what I can tell the willy bot was only a way that whales were able to buy up large amounts of bitcoin without suffering excess slippage.

If the price moved up by such a large amount when the bots were buying, there definitely was slippage.

Well, IMO people arent doing this drop, but bots are. Too many exchanges, too coordinated.. this is a plan in motion. All we can do is sit here and talk to each other like sick people waiting to heal

pitham1

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Quote from: BTCmoons on October 13, 2014, 10:04:37 PM

I agree that bots were certainly used, however I don't think there is evidence that the bots were used to manipulate the prices. From what I can tell the willy bot was only a way that whales were able to buy up large amounts of bitcoin without suffering excess slippage.

If the price moved up by such a large amount when the bots were buying, there definitely was slippage.

BTCmoons

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Quote from: pitham1 on October 13, 2014, 08:20:44 PM

Quote from: xinxi on October 13, 2014, 12:21:31 AM

Quote from: BTCmoons on October 12, 2014, 11:08:30 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on October 12, 2014, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

The bots were purchasing on behalf of speculators with a lot of money. It is not a conspiracy.

Zoznoz is likely correct to say that speculators were trying to profit from quick and massive bitcoin adoption but the chinese government was able to stem this in their country. I would anticipate them easing off these bans/regulations over the long term as they become more of a free market economy

Is there any evidence on the use of bots?

It was covered widely in the media.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/29/bitcoin-bots-bought-millions-in-the-last-days-of-mt-gox

I agree that bots were certainly used, however I don't think there is evidence that the bots were used to manipulate the prices. From what I can tell the willy bot was only a way that whales were able to buy up large amounts of bitcoin without suffering excess slippage.

pitham1

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Quote from: xinxi on October 13, 2014, 12:21:31 AM

Quote from: BTCmoons on October 12, 2014, 11:08:30 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on October 12, 2014, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

The bots were purchasing on behalf of speculators with a lot of money. It is not a conspiracy.

Zoznoz is likely correct to say that speculators were trying to profit from quick and massive bitcoin adoption but the chinese government was able to stem this in their country. I would anticipate them easing off these bans/regulations over the long term as they become more of a free market economy

Is there any evidence on the use of bots?

It was covered widely in the media.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/29/bitcoin-bots-bought-millions-in-the-last-days-of-mt-gox

xinxi

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To me, that does not lead to the conclusion directly. Wink

xinxi

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Quote from: BTCmoons on October 12, 2014, 11:08:30 PM

Quote from: pitham1 on October 12, 2014, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

The bots were purchasing on behalf of speculators with a lot of money. It is not a conspiracy.

Zoznoz is likely correct to say that speculators were trying to profit from quick and massive bitcoin adoption but the chinese government was able to stem this in their country. I would anticipate them easing off these bans/regulations over the long term as they become more of a free market economy

Is there any evidence on the use of bots?

BTCmoons

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Quote from: pitham1 on October 12, 2014, 08:16:13 PM

Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

The bots were purchasing on behalf of speculators with a lot of money. It is not a conspiracy.

Zoznoz is likely correct to say that speculators were trying to profit from quick and massive bitcoin adoption but the chinese government was able to stem this in their country. I would anticipate them easing off these bans/regulations over the long term as they become more of a free market economy

pitham1

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Quote from: Zoznoz on October 11, 2014, 09:06:14 PM

I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

The increase in price last year was due to market manipulation by bots.

novacn

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It's not a bad thing. Unstable means opportunity and opportunity means money you can make Cool

bf4btc

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Quote from: fewcoins on October 10, 2014, 09:10:42 AM

Quote from: resya on October 09, 2014, 04:23:18 PM

BTC become more stable now at $350 and will always be the daddy coin, but IMO LTC does have more profit potential, like right now LTC to $12 is not going to be as hard as BTC going to $1000 again

Lmfao this comment is hilarious... Lite coin is crashing & burning atm, soon LTC will be a thing of the past! It has no future!!

In terms of bitcoin, the price of litecoin has been declining for some time now. The price of LTC and other major altcoins have been declining all year. The reason for this is because they have no underlying value.

The price of bitcoin has been unstable throughout it's life because it is very illiquid when compared to other investments and other currencies. If you look at the dollar value of the volume of shares traded in most major stocks, and compare that to the volume of bitcoin traded, you will see that the volume of bitcoin traded is significantly less

Zoznoz

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I could be completely wrong but from observation, it seemed as though BTC/USD increased to $1,000 each last year because most of the speculators (particularly the newest speculators) hoped that people would develop more and greater services which would be centred around bitcoin. Which has happened but not quick enough then most had hoped and this is completely due to Government intervention, particularly China who is trying to eliminate it completely and the US Government would love to do the same thing but instead they will keep crippling the unregulated financial services offered in bitcoin. Now, I might be wrong but I believe that the fact that these asset exchanges and lack of banking services is a major contributor to why the price isn't higher than it is now. If everyone believed they could get huge returns quite easily using bitcoin then of course the price would be back to where it was beforehand. If people were so scared about the volatility then they would just hedge.

Topic: Why bitcoin prices are always very unstable (Read 10474 times)