Topic: Why Bitcoin will be bigger than The Bible (Read 5101 times)

1. The next "best thing" after sliced bread was wheeled luggage.

2. The best thing since wheeled luggage is Bitcoin.

3. It's getting close:


(blue = "bitcoin", red = "the bible")

Agreed. The universe exists. I didn't assert otherwise. There can't be anything that created the universe. If something exists, it's part of the universe by definition. If it's not part of the universe, existence is not what it has.


Disagree. The notion of a lawgiver does not produce an objective morality. It produces a subjective morality. The subject is a supernatural one. But still subjective. If the lawgiver says knife your kid to prove your loyalty, or slaughter the other tribe, that's moral. Why? Because he says it is.

Knowledge of virtue and vice is a species of knowlege. The only means humans have of gaining knowledge is reason. Secular, rational morality has a long proud tradition going back to the incredible scholarship of classical helenism with Socrates, Epicurus, through to the stoics, Spinoza and through to Rand's Objectivism. This is the only kind of morality that can be objective.

Your main flawed assumption is that I claimed that "nothing" existed before the big bang.  A good undergraduate astronomy class (or PBS special) can easily explain the fact that the big bang was the result of a symmetry collapse, where the grand unified force splintered into light, gravity, time, and Bitcoins (the Four Fundamental Forces).

Since time and perhaps causality began as a result of the big bang symmetry collapse, we may not be able to tell much about previous universes.  

But that doesn't mean scientists claim 'sumptin' came from 'nuttin.'  

Arguing about whether 'sumptin' can come from 'nuttin' is a perennial favorite discussion popular with the hick beer-can philosophers and slack-jawed yokels I grew up with, but not the scientists in my current peer group.  

They think that the best most winning catch-all put down of science, empiricism, and modern cosmology is to herp, derp, and declare with all the certainty in the world that 'SUMPTIN CAIN'T COME FROM NUTTIN!!!1!"

It's cute.  Too bad they'll never appreciate the elegance and beauty of what the COBE background radiation and Hubbell's law are showing, to those of us with eyes open enough to see.


Oh well, you can pick your nose but not your family....

so is Jesus

Bitcoin is an illusion.

Interesting logic, since if it weren't for Jesus, bitcoin wouldn't exist. 

Bitcoin is bigger than Jesus!

It's okay, you can say that on this forum.

In reference to the universe:

You say, *it had to happen* (meaning the odds were there all along) but literally the next thing you say is, *we hit the jackpot* (meaning we got lucky).

Don't be double-minded. You don't win the lotto and say *i was bound to win it, the odds were there*.

The odds against the universe existing as it does, and earth to evolve into a planet with all the conditions necessary to support life, are well beyond "hitting the jackpot". The odds have been worked out: its like hitting the jackpot - *EVERY* day - 100 days in a row.

The odds against are well beyond the scientific standard for ridiculous (10 to the 50th power). The number is so gigantic, it is bigger than the number of seconds in 5 billion years, the supposed life of the our universe. 5 billion years = 1.5778463 × 10^17 seconds. It doesn't matter how much time and randomness you throw into the mix. It can't happen. PERIOD.

Randomness is the total absence of information. Randomness by definition leads only to chaos.

If probability and randomness did not function in a predictable manner, Bitcoin would fall apart. It depends on the laws of the universe to function.

I disagree with the premise that Bitcoins "represents a shift in the way that we organise ourselves". The internet has allowed many new channels in which people can organise themselves, and leveraged new power to internet users. However, there is no "shift"; some Bitcoin users share the ideology of a "money" that is not controlled by the financial elite, whereas some want to make money. Neither of these concepts are new, so the reasons for organising have not changed. Nor has the way people organise themselves changed, i.e. spreading the word, opening up forums were discussions can be held etc. So the only thing that has changed is the mechanism of the "money" and the venue were interested parties enter into dialogue and exchange "money".

As to important men making decisions in our best interests and making rules on how money should be distributed; I cannot remember whether it was Plato or Aristotle who said that laws are enacted once wealth in society is unequally shared, and that the more uneven the share is, the more number of laws are enacted.

Bitcoins can, at best, be a means for executing exchanges of goods and services; the Bible sets rules for society in many spheres of life.

For god: he is nothing like anyone believes. Its more like morality inside us. buddhists call it good carma (would be my religion of choice, if i would choose one). But also my morality guides me to accept all different kinds of views. in the end, its almost all about the same (gppd) thing: enlarge morality.
And truly this world is so remarkable, that one should really think someone must have invented this But I believe in randomness (I solo mine also harhar). With that many stars and galaxies out there, it had to happen. We are the lotto jackpot times a million.
So please try to save nature...god/buddha/satan/insert random god/random hero will not save it for us.

Instead system earth will wipe us, it will suffer in the process, but in the end survive.

... but hey im moving of topic...
But please do not get fanatic about religion, like some groups do in EVERY(excemptions prrove the rule) religion.


about the Jews and the non holocaust:

I am a schnitzel and sauerkraut german. It happened..., you know why? Because some leaders killed their own people (khmer in Camodia for example), why not kill a different race? ....
And proof you see everyday in Germany are the so called "stolpersteine". Its a metalplated stone near houses where jews lived and were deported. I think if they were alive, they would have come back for their house.

Dont believe everything in the media, definitely not, but trust me on this one: The holocaust happened.

(and how i am pissed off that even after 2.5 generations everywhere you go in the world it is rubbed under your nose: nazi, jews, blablabla)

And for some morality: some things are hardwired into our brain (again rules make the excemption (hello randomness), dont expect in 7 billion people every wiring in the brain to be okay) and this also makes the bridge to "by some groups hated" evolution.
those sick people will either be put to jail/murdered/will die themselves/etc or it will be sometimes such "wrong wiring" that it prooves to be better/efficient/more survivable than the others.

The change will vanish  or stay.
It might also bring the old normal wiring "out of business" (do  not find the word for "verdrängen" right now)

evolution....

give it time and randomness and it will strengthen the system.

Last sentence sound a lot like bitcoin (yeahh my brain wiring is back to the topic of the forum, hate those philosophical discussions, everyone shall believe what they want, but i have my big picture puzzle and I am always glad to hear about new parts

Rampone (no the soccermom playing for the USA  

just my 2 cBTC

My experience and knowledge has led me to believe that this is indeed not the case, and the priests who killed him simply said that about him afterwards. My understanding is that he simply was trying to change people's ways, and very charismatic, and therefore developed a following.

This could go on a long while, lol.. and I'm just waiting for a bitlord to shutdown this thread. Or perhaps people like to read debates such as these?
But I will say this.. Jesus was either a Liar, a Lunatic or Lord.
He claimed to be God. He either knew He wasn't and lied, thought He was and was a lunatic, or truly is and is Lord.

I could believe you, and I actually agree with a lot of what you say, but you for some strange reason think jesus is gonna be coming back someday, when the fact is he was MURDERED by the same group that I suspect is still in power (elite priests)

Let's say that far away, on an alien planet, beings enjoy killing babies for fun and entertainment. Now, is this considered evil everywhere in the universe, or just in your human mind? Objective morality means that it is evil everywhere, no matter where you are located or what species you are.
Killing babies for fun and entertainment is never right, even if humans (and their minds) don't exist.
Subjective morality says it's only wrong for you.

So answer then. Is killing babies for fun and entertainment only wrong for you, or is it wrong period.
As an atheist, you must say evil does not exist (as Richard Dawkins does).
How can you even trust that the random particles you are made up of allow you to give a truly logical answer?
Remember, the atheistic worldview makes you no more than a flesh machine that is merely reacting to the chemical reactions in your brain. There is no right and wrong, just random particles in a meaningless random universe. Logic, rationality and morals are only bound internally in your own human brain and therefore are a figment of your imagination.

I propose that logic and morality is objective, so they do not change whether you, or an entire community of people decide something is not evil (like the Nazi's).
Objective moral values exist, and they are imposed onto your conscience by God. I'd love to hear your theory on whether morals and logic is either subjective or objective and how it could be objective without a law giver.
Actually, I'm not into religion, just logic, reason, science and my belief in God. Religion can be a dangerous man-made system of control. Even Jesus ate with the outcast tax collectors and prostitutes, but He had a HUGE problem with the religious leaders and pharisees of that day.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites... you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness." - Jesus Christ
Jesus was not a fan of religion either.

Proof of it everywhere. And yet you offer none.

I never once said it didn't happen, I never said it wasn't horrific. But the same thing happened in America with the Japanese, and millions were NOT killed, think about it with your critical thinking for like 2 seconds, come on. I know you probably haven't used the muscle since you were a child.

I'm invoking Godwins Law.

Just shut this silly thread down, eh?

Hehehe, someone who doesn't believe in the holocaust... I knew people like you existed, but haven't had the pleasure of interacting with one yet.

I've spoken with survivors of the holocaust.  Maybe you haven't.  But the holocaust DID happen.  And it WAS as atrocious and astonishing horrific as all of the textbooks and "media" make it out to be.  And it DID involve the killing of millions of Jews.  There is proof of it everywhere.

How do you know something is imposing that moral standard though? How can you prove its not simply the result of our superior brains being able to rationalize? That hey, yeah, torturing animals and killing them is bad. Raping and murdering is not something you do.

I am able to come to these conclusions, completely without the help of the "God" of the bible. Its called common sense. The very fact that you call yourself a human should mean you are able to do these very basic human acts.

Oh and there's a couple problems with your whole theory on Hitler. He didn't gas any jews, or if he did, it was a whole hell of a lot less than we are made to believe by the media/history books. Oh and the Germans didn't even start World War 2, if you believe that then we really have nothing to discuss, our point of views are just too different. Oh and by priests running around I was mainly referring to Catholic (as I was raised in that religion) but other Christians I assume are similiar (of course not the denominations that allow priests to marry). These are men who deny their very manhood, their very essence, deny themselves a woman, while at the same time surrounding themselves with a great deal of young, prepubescent boys who, if you're raping them in the dark, are pretty similar to a woman, lets be honest.

But yeah, obviously this isn't posted for your benefit because you are far too programmed by the religious programming and as such will defend it to literally your death. But hopefully someone will read these words and think things over and maybe even make some small changes in their life. BECOME A VEGETARIAN, PEOPLE, THAT IS LIKE THE SIMPLEST THING YOU CAN DO. Even if you just eat one less tortured animal a week, just cutting SOME meat out of your diet will be massive good karma, along with improving your health and well-being.

Again, my whole point was that if morals are not subjective, then atheists cannot explain this. What could possibly be imposing a moral standard on humans? I think I gave an example of how moral subjectivism fails as a theory.

How did we even get on this subject. I thought we were supposed to be talking about bitcoins.

Slavery:
First let's keep in mind that slavery in the Bible was not always based on race like we have seen in the past couple of centuries. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts; doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves to have all their needs provided for by their masters. However, there has been, and always will be people kidnapped into slavery and forced into it based on race.

God allows many things to happen such as famine, murder, slavery, etc. While many nations treated their slaves very badly, the Bible gave many rights and privileges to slaves.  So, even though it isn't the best way to deal with people, because God has allowed man freedom, slavery then exists.  God instructed the Israelites to treat them properly.

So if man is going to permit slavery, then how are these rules immoral as you say?

The Bible acknowledged the slave's status as the property of the master (Ex. 21:23; Lev. 25:46).
The Bible restricted the master's power over the slave. Ex. 21:20).
The slave was a member of the master's household (Lev. 22:11).
The slave was required to rest on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10; Deut. 5:14).
The slave was required to participate in religious observances (Gen. 17:13; Exodus 12:44; Lev. 22:11).
The Bible prohibited extradition of slaves and granted them asylum (Deut. 23:16-17).
The servitude of a Hebrew debt-slave was limited to six years (Ex. 21:2; Deut. 15:12).
When a slave was freed, he was to receive gifts that enabled him to survive economically (Deut. 15:14). carm.org

How Women Should Behave:
Can you give me an example here relating to immorality?

Homosexuality:
Again, homosexuality is still considered immoral by most of the world.
How is this considered an example of immorality found within the Bible?