Why did satoshi develop bitcoin in windows? - page 3.

MkGregor

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Quote from: cellard on February 09, 2018, 09:14:44 AM

Windows is closed source! C'mon man. Would you use a closed source currency? nope, same goes for the operating system. Why would you or anyone with a functional brain use an OS that's closed source and holds your private keys at any point in time? that goes against the very principle of cryptography and satoshi used it to develop bitcoin which is hilarious, but I can understand how if that was all that he had to develop it's better than nothing. But I wouldn't feel too safe holding 1,000,000 BTC in a windows machine that was online at any point in time... not a very good idea. I know that Bitcoin wasn't worth anything back then, but he was still around in in late 2010 when the price was around 30 cents, 30 cents x the supposed 1,000,000 BTC = that's $300,000, a decent amount. I hope he moved these coins from the initial windows online computer, but we know he never moved his stash so...

Well. One thing is - I believe, that he could have mined his coins later on in the development, let's say in first 1000 users of the bitcoin. This way he would still get his mnoney, but he would never have to touch his "original" wallet. Another possibility is that he never minded the money. May be he is already dead from an old age by now.
And the windows - as someone above noted: he could want it to be able for use by everyone, not just linux geeks, I believe these days Linux is much more available and common, than before.

deevan

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as windows is very user friendly , not like linux command base very techie , he wanted to to be used by every common man.

Jet Cash

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Quote from: DooMAD on February 09, 2018, 05:51:32 AM

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 09, 2018, 04:18:32 AM

I believe that Bitcoin was created as an experimental project by the Fed, or some other agency of the banking elite. Of course, they would use Windows so that they could check to see what people were doing with their baby.

Not the greatest plan when it's open source. I don't credit the Fed with a vast amount of intelligence, but even I don't think they're stupid enough to surveil people with code you can check for backdoors and tracking malware, along with being able to port it to any *nix, Android, MacOS, etc system. It just doesn't seem feasible.

That's why they used Windows. We know that Microsoft provided backdoors for US government departments to use. Why would they need to include anything in the Bitcoin software. I think they wanted to see what the anti-globalists could do with the concept. Right now it looks as if they are doing a pretty good job.

cellard

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Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 05:20:49 PM

Quote from: shield132 on February 08, 2018, 08:51:55 AM

Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 01:26:33 AM

Well, back than windows was at it's best - that's a very simple answer. If windows would not become that bad, I would not switch to Linux.
Now I'm on Linux for over two years and not even once looked back. But Back than - yea, Windows was the key.

Can you tell me what do you mean when saying windows was at it's best? Depends on what are you looking for. For games, graphics and for almost everything, windows was and is still the best. But here we talk about bitcoin which is known for it's decentralization (currently not decentralized for me as it has to be) and privacy. Windows isn't for privacy, only winner here is Linux.
Seems answer is his lack in knowledge of linux platform.

Windows had no real privacy issues until Vista upgrade, really. But you could be right, may be he did not know any better.

Windows is closed source! C'mon man. Would you use a closed source currency? nope, same goes for the operating system. Why would you or anyone with a functional brain use an OS that's closed source and holds your private keys at any point in time? that goes against the very principle of cryptography and satoshi used it to develop bitcoin which is hilarious, but I can understand how if that was all that he had to develop it's better than nothing. But I wouldn't feel too safe holding 1,000,000 BTC in a windows machine that was online at any point in time... not a very good idea. I know that Bitcoin wasn't worth anything back then, but he was still around in in late 2010 when the price was around 30 cents, 30 cents x the supposed 1,000,000 BTC = that's $300,000, a decent amount. I hope he moved these coins from the initial windows online computer, but we know he never moved his stash so...

DooMAD

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Quote from: Jet Cash on February 09, 2018, 04:18:32 AM

I believe that Bitcoin was created as an experimental project by the Fed, or some other agency of the banking elite. Of course, they would use Windows so that they could check to see what people were doing with their baby.

Not the greatest plan when it's open source. I don't credit the Fed with a vast amount of intelligence, but even I don't think they're stupid enough to surveil people with code you can check for backdoors and tracking malware, along with being able to port it to any *nix, Android, MacOS, etc system. It just doesn't seem feasible.

Jet Cash

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I believe that Bitcoin was created as an experimental project by the Fed, or some other agency of the banking elite. Of course, they would use Windows so that they could check to see what people were doing with their baby.

DooMAD

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Quote from: buwaytress on February 09, 2018, 02:55:09 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on February 07, 2018, 06:33:05 PM

Bit of a far-flung theory, but I think it might have been a deliberate ploy to cover their tracks and keep their identity a mystery. If it was someone closely connected to Unix development, but they didn't want people to connect the dots and discover they started Bitcoin, what better way to do it than to make the first version Windows-only? Secure in the knowledge that if it was successful, it wouldn't take long for Bitcoin to migrate back to Unix, the spiritual home of open source. Never underestimate Satoshi's brilliance and forward-thinking.

I don't think it's far flung at all and you're right, this to me is a perfect example of forward-thinking... that actually you might realise seems to remain with the bulk of Bitcoin core developers.

Satoshi were a group of highly intelligent people - near flawless communicational language, extremely sound coding. From the beginning, they were already keen to safeguard their identities and part of the strategy would have to include deliberate inconsistencies in character, to complicate any potential profiling they were sure to attract. I think using an OS more common for programmers is part of that obfuscation, and would have helped narrow down any such attempt.

It could also be practicality. If you wanted adoption beyond the confines of cypherpunkery you want Bob and Alice's PCs to be able to run the early clients.

Ah, good, so it's not just me then. So if we are looking at prominent Unix developers, is this theory plausible? It would certainly explain Satoshi's absence, but obviously not in nicest of circumstances. Sad

It just seems to fit somehow. Think about it this way, if you had been a primary contributor to something as innovative as Unix, you had now retired from working, you had experience with ciphers and cryptography, plus you just so happened to be a goddamn visionary genius, why would you not take a shot at trying to fix money by applying the same open-source principles?

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Quote from: DooMAD on February 07, 2018, 06:33:05 PM

Bit of a far-flung theory, but I think it might have been a deliberate ploy to cover their tracks and keep their identity a mystery. If it was someone closely connected to Unix development, but they didn't want people to connect the dots and discover they started Bitcoin, what better way to do it than to make the first version Windows-only? Secure in the knowledge that if it was successful, it wouldn't take long for Bitcoin to migrate back to Unix, the spiritual home of open source. Never underestimate Satoshi's brilliance and forward-thinking.

I don't think it's far flung at all and you're right, this to me is a perfect example of forward-thinking... that actually you might realise seems to remain with the bulk of Bitcoin core developers.

Satoshi were a group of highly intelligent people - near flawless communicational language, extremely sound coding. From the beginning, they were already keen to safeguard their identities and part of the strategy would have to include deliberate inconsistencies in character, to complicate any potential profiling they were sure to attract. I think using an OS more common for programmers is part of that obfuscation, and would have helped narrow down any such attempt.

It could also be practicality. If you wanted adoption beyond the confines of cypherpunkery you want Bob and Alice's PCs to be able to run the early clients.

Wind_FURY

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OP, hahahaha.

Quote from: achow101 on February 07, 2018, 11:45:33 AM

He probably only had experience programming in windows and with GUIs. Bitcoin 0.1.0 was a Windows only, GUI only application.

Or maybe Satoshi was smart enough to pretend to have programming experience only in Windows. I believe he was trying hard to hide the truth that he might be one of the original cypherpunks.

Good job, Nick, good job.

lingdusea

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just most people use windows

bitperson

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Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 05:20:49 PM

Quote from: shield132 on February 08, 2018, 08:51:55 AM

Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 01:26:33 AM

Well, back than windows was at it's best - that's a very simple answer. If windows would not become that bad, I would not switch to Linux.
Now I'm on Linux for over two years and not even once looked back. But Back than - yea, Windows was the key.

Can you tell me what do you mean when saying windows was at it's best? Depends on what are you looking for. For games, graphics and for almost everything, windows was and is still the best. But here we talk about bitcoin which is known for it's decentralization (currently not decentralized for me as it has to be) and privacy. Windows isn't for privacy, only winner here is Linux.
Seems answer is his lack in knowledge of linux platform.

Windows had no real privacy issues until Vista upgrade, really. But you could be right, may be he did not know any better.

Windows has an abysmal security record. There were versions that you couldn’t install on a network-connected box without being compromised before the installer had even finished. See e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(computer_worm). Then at some point (I think it was XP SP2), Microsoft configured its installer to actually turn on the software firewall, which helped somewhat Cheesy

AGD

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Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 05:20:49 PM

Quote from: shield132 on February 08, 2018, 08:51:55 AM

Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 01:26:33 AM

Well, back than windows was at it's best - that's a very simple answer. If windows would not become that bad, I would not switch to Linux.
Now I'm on Linux for over two years and not even once looked back. But Back than - yea, Windows was the key.

Can you tell me what do you mean when saying windows was at it's best? Depends on what are you looking for. For games, graphics and for almost everything, windows was and is still the best. But here we talk about bitcoin which is known for it's decentralization (currently not decentralized for me as it has to be) and privacy. Windows isn't for privacy, only winner here is Linux.
Seems answer is his lack in knowledge of linux platform.

Windows had no real privacy issues until Vista upgrade, really. But you could be right, may be he did not know any better.

LOL. Windows was an open hole ever and always and anyone with just little computer knowledge knew that.

MkGregor

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Quote from: shield132 on February 08, 2018, 08:51:55 AM

Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 01:26:33 AM

Well, back than windows was at it's best - that's a very simple answer. If windows would not become that bad, I would not switch to Linux.
Now I'm on Linux for over two years and not even once looked back. But Back than - yea, Windows was the key.

Can you tell me what do you mean when saying windows was at it's best? Depends on what are you looking for. For games, graphics and for almost everything, windows was and is still the best. But here we talk about bitcoin which is known for it's decentralization (currently not decentralized for me as it has to be) and privacy. Windows isn't for privacy, only winner here is Linux.
Seems answer is his lack in knowledge of linux platform.

Windows had no real privacy issues until Vista upgrade, really. But you could be right, may be he did not know any better.

ChefBoyardeez

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Quote from: DooMAD on February 07, 2018, 06:33:05 PM

Bit of a far-flung theory, but I think it might have been a deliberate ploy to cover their tracks and keep their identity a mystery. If it was someone closely connected to Unix development, but they didn't want people to connect the dots and discover they started Bitcoin, what better way to do it than to make the first version Windows-only? Secure in the knowledge that if it was successful, it wouldn't take long for Bitcoin to migrate back to Unix, the spiritual home of open source. Never underestimate Satoshi's brilliance and forward-thinking.

This seems to make sense. If the person or persons responsible for BTC wanted to remain anonymous, or if they were part of an organization which was virtually all windows based this would be a great reason to use windows. What groups use predominately windows, and if they did not use windows, would be easy to spot?

The power of anonymity is being in the herd. The windows herd is VERY large and easier to disappear into.

cellard

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Quote from: ruletheworld on February 07, 2018, 12:02:11 PM

Quote from: cellard on February 07, 2018, 11:43:28 AM

You are trying to create a decentralized, censorship resistant, open source form of money, and you build it on top of a closed source operating system which is known for it's ties with three letter agency, hidden exploits, and all sorts of these bad things.

I find it weird that he would develop on windows. As far as I know, his first release was for windows only, and from what I've read, some code analysts claimed that he was a windows guy.

What is your take on this?

Cypherpunks code. It doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to work right. If Satoshi had experience with programming on Windows, it seems like the best way forward for the project. Don't sit here and judge his decisions a decade from when they were made.

No one knew what Bitcoin might even become back then, and there was every chance it would just fade away or disappear. It's a project Satoshi worked on without knowing the outcome. The best way forward was to get a working client out there, which he did.

You can sit and analyze every small decision but it's of no use. Sometimes you just got to make a decision. People forget Satoshi was still only human.

Im not judging satoshi for using windows, im just curious about why. If you are developing something which is basically holding your own money, seems most convenient to do so under an OS that may not be filled with spyware (and today we know for a fact that windows has deep ties within NSA and co) so I would have started on linux since day 1, specially if you wanted to remain anonymous, since it would be easier for your computer to get infected with stuff on windows.

shield132

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Quote from: MkGregor on February 08, 2018, 01:26:33 AM

Well, back than windows was at it's best - that's a very simple answer. If windows would not become that bad, I would not switch to Linux.
Now I'm on Linux for over two years and not even once looked back. But Back than - yea, Windows was the key.

Can you tell me what do you mean when saying windows was at it's best? Depends on what are you looking for. For games, graphics and for almost everything, windows was and is still the best. But here we talk about bitcoin which is known for it's decentralization (currently not decentralized for me as it has to be) and privacy. Windows isn't for privacy, only winner here is Linux.
Seems answer is his lack in knowledge of linux platform.

MkGregor

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Well, back than windows was at it's best - that's a very simple answer. If windows would not become that bad, I would not switch to Linux.
Now I'm on Linux for over two years and not even once looked back. But Back than - yea, Windows was the key.

vit05

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Maybe he wanted to create Bitcoin in a way that soon after its creation people could use it. Rather than being somewhat restricted those niches that only use Linux. His goal has always been to take his product to the common people and ordinary people like GUI interface.

DooMAD

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Bit of a far-flung theory, but I think it might have been a deliberate ploy to cover their tracks and keep their identity a mystery. If it was someone closely connected to Unix development, but they didn't want people to connect the dots and discover they started Bitcoin, what better way to do it than to make the first version Windows-only? Secure in the knowledge that if it was successful, it wouldn't take long for Bitcoin to migrate back to Unix, the spiritual home of open source. Never underestimate Satoshi's brilliance and forward-thinking.

nicosey

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Good question.
Bitcoin is a distributed system. Back then no one would build a distributed system not on UNIX.

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