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Topic: Why Didn't Satoshi Think About Instant Confirmations? - page 3. (Read 2981 times)

hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
When someone of his skills and imagination is on his path to create a decentralized digital currency, how is the transaction times are not given the most important thought process?

He imagined instant transactions and all will be confirmed after 10 minutes on average. That is a fairly quick system. I know sometimes we can't even get 1 confirmation in an hour, that's to do with luck and difficulty mechanism.
How quickly your transactions get confimed, it depends on how much of your paid fees. The more fee you pay, the more priority of your transactions!
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
well the bitcoin architecutre depends on the more miners of diff find blocks and never could be instant the bolckchain need to find and store the perfect transactions of the last 10 mins but usualy 3 confirms do that and 30 mins a transaction its very much better than 2 days banks btc its a bank for itself
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
What is the need for instant confirmations ? Once a transaction is sent doesn't it get confirmed after sometime, so how does it matter ? We just have to wait for one confirmation while trading to avoid double spends. In rest of the cases its hardly a worry.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
It's really a non-issue for me. There are loads of 3rd party services you can use that implemented "off-chain" instants transactions.

Let's keep in mind, that Satoshi's protocol was still a work in progress and acctually still is... This can still be solved now.

Let's give him/her/them credit for all the other bases that was covered.... It's simply brilliant, and shows that no technology is perfect.  Tongue Tongue Tongue
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
Transactions are instant,but not confirmed instantly, you can't make instant confirmations without making it unsecure
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
I read somewhere(cant remember now) that Crypto 2.0 has instant transactions like stellar, ripple that's why bitcoin should be updated to 2.0

Stellar had a flawed consensus protocol that led to a fork. It was temporarily resolved by running the whole Stellar network on a single verifying node, which is not decentralized. Stellar and Ripple have not been tested as long as Bitcoin and can only prove they are as reliable by running for years without problems.

http://www.coindesk.com/stability-questions-dog-ripple-protocol-stellar-fork/





Can bitcoin be updated like stellar and ripple (stellar it's like ripple as it use almost all things that ripple use)

It would no longer be decentralized if it was updated to be like Stellar. I think a single verifying node is still running the whole Stellar network because of the fork. A government could switch off the server hosting that node and close the whole Stellar network. It's impossible to do that to the Bitcoin network, which is why it was invented.

A new consensus protocol has been devised for Stellar but I don't think its been deployed yet. This link explains it and says the earliest it will be deployed is this summer.

http://www.coindesk.com/stellar-founder-jed-mccaleb-new-protocol/

Well i'm learning more day by day, didnt know about this how works stellar. Btw, i like bitcoin and maybe that reason you gave thats why it is so popular right now and will be more in near future.
sr. member
Activity: 253
Merit: 252
I read somewhere(cant remember now) that Crypto 2.0 has instant transactions like stellar, ripple that's why bitcoin should be updated to 2.0

Stellar had a flawed consensus protocol that led to a fork. It was temporarily resolved by running the whole Stellar network on a single verifying node, which is not decentralized. Stellar and Ripple have not been tested as long as Bitcoin and can only prove they are as reliable by running for years without problems.

http://www.coindesk.com/stability-questions-dog-ripple-protocol-stellar-fork/





Can bitcoin be updated like stellar and ripple (stellar it's like ripple as it use almost all things that ripple use)

It would no longer be decentralized if it was updated to be like Stellar. I think a single verifying node is still running the whole Stellar network because of the fork. A government could switch off the server hosting that node and close the whole Stellar network. It's impossible to do that to the Bitcoin network, which is why it was invented.

A new consensus protocol has been devised for Stellar but I don't think its been deployed yet. This link explains it and says the earliest it will be deployed is this summer.

http://www.coindesk.com/stellar-founder-jed-mccaleb-new-protocol/
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
I read somewhere(cant remember now) that Crypto 2.0 has instant transactions like stellar, ripple that's why bitcoin should be updated to 2.0

Stellar had a flawed consensus protocol that led to a fork. It was temporarily resolved by running the whole Stellar network on a single verifying node, which is not decentralized. Stellar and Ripple have not been tested as long as Bitcoin and can only prove they are as reliable by running for years without problems.

http://www.coindesk.com/stability-questions-dog-ripple-protocol-stellar-fork/





Can bitcoin be updated like stellar and ripple (stellar it's like ripple as it use almost all things that ripple use)
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
When someone of his skills and imagination is on his path to create a decentralized digital currency, how is the transaction times are not given the most important thought process?

He imagined instant transactions and all will be confirmed after 10 minutes on average. That is a fairly quick system. I know sometimes we can't even get 1 confirmation in an hour, that's to do with luck and difficulty mechanism.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
the thing to be instant would be good but well double spent would be a nice moove soo better stay with confirmations.... soo lets say in a restaurant would be good just to see the transaction that appears in minutes on the wallet confirmation can take 30 minutes or less 
sr. member
Activity: 253
Merit: 252
I read somewhere(cant remember now) that Crypto 2.0 has instant transactions like stellar, ripple that's why bitcoin should be updated to 2.0

Stellar had a flawed consensus protocol that led to a fork. It was temporarily resolved by running the whole Stellar network on a single verifying node, which is not decentralized. Stellar and Ripple have not been tested as long as Bitcoin and can only prove they are as reliable by running for years without problems.

http://www.coindesk.com/stability-questions-dog-ripple-protocol-stellar-fork/



hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 503
I remember he predicted almost everything, including the transaction confirmation time and the centralization of mining over time. Transactions itselves are instant tho.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1008
It already exists, when you pay with bitcoin in a restaurant you dont have to wait at all, you just scan and done. Although if you are buying an aircraft carrier its better to wait for 6 confirmations.

I didnt know that bitcoin is applied in restaurants could you send me any link/video that bitcoin is applied there.

Just search youtube paying with bitcoin, there are plenty if you check www.coinmap.org you can see all of restaurants worldwide that accept btc.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1030
Twitter @realmicroguy
Well...   not actually "instant", but he could have though of 'faster' transactions.

When someone of his skills and imagination is on his path to create a decentralized digital currency, how is the transaction times are not given the most important thought process? I'm sure it isn't hard to imagine instant transactions in today's worls when email is the medium of daily communication which delivers messages in matter of seconds?

When Satoshi left, his work was not finished. You can tell by his last posts he intended to do much more.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/satoshi-3

Then, he mysteriously vanished with his coins (and the alert keys).
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
It already exists, when you pay with bitcoin in a restaurant you dont have to wait at all, you just scan and done. Although if you are buying an aircraft carrier its better to wait for 6 confirmations.

I didnt know that bitcoin is applied in restaurants could you send me any link/video that bitcoin is applied there.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1008
It already exists, when you pay with bitcoin in a restaurant you dont have to wait at all, you just scan and done. Although if you are buying an aircraft carrier its better to wait for 6 confirmations.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
at the moment of releasing the code into the wild he expected the community to take over and include certain features when needed. i guess at some point in the future the core devs will probably make confirmations faster and decrease block rewards.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
Lately I have been using coffee.foldapp.com to buy Starbucks. It has always worked almost instantly, so they obviously don't wait for a confirmation.

As was mentioned above, the only reason for a merchant to wait for a confirmation is to prevent a double-spend. If I wanted to cheat Foldapp out of my $5 Starbucks drink, I would have to hand-craft a transaction that sent the $5 back to me, then inject both it and the "real" transaction to the network at the same time. However, if I don't insert the transactions at the right place on the network, and the "fake" transaction gets to Foldapp, while the "real" transaction gets to a minor, then if I wanted my latte, I would have to contact Foldapp and explain what happened.

The point being that there isn't a big risk of not waiting for the confirmation to a coffee vendor.

For larger transactions, such as an exchange, it makes more sense to wait for confirmations, but that's more like a stock purchase, where the investor expects the transaction to take a while.

I think these large transactions are analogous to using my PayPal balance to purchase something: The purchase is instant, but it takes 3 days to transfer money from my bank account to my PayPal balance.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Well...   not actually "instant", but he could have though of 'faster' transactions.

When someone of his skills and imagination is on his path to create a decentralized digital currency, how is the transaction times are not given the most important thought process? I'm sure it isn't hard to imagine instant transactions in today's worls when email is the medium of daily communication which delivers messages in matter of seconds?

As the posters above already said, transactions are pretty much instantaneous but confirmations take 10 minutes each on average. Here's a post by Satoshi where he discusses the feasibility of a shorter block generation times (and thus shorter confirmation times):

I thought about that but there wasn't a practical way to do smaller increments.  The frequency of block generation is balanced between confirming transactions as fast as possible and the latency of the network.

The algorithm aims for an average of 6 blocks per hour.  If it was 5 bc and 60 per hour, there would be 10 times as many blocks and the initial block download would take 10 times as long. It wouldn't work anyway because that would be only 1 minute average between blocks, too close to the broadcast latency when the network gets larger.

Confirmations can be made faster by increasing the rate at which new blocks are found. Problem is, if new blocks are being generated too quickly then you start to see problems with the blockchain temporarily splitting due to network propagation delays. According to one figure from 2013, the mean time for a node to see a new block in the network was 12.6 seconds. If two miners oblivious to each other happened to mine blocks simultaneously, one of these blocks will fail to become part of the main chain. This is called an orphan block. The faster the blocks are generated, the more orphan blocks you will get.

Satoshi probably thought 10 minutes was a reasonable trade-off. Seeing as though Litecoin doesn't have any major issues with orphan blocks and orphan chains despite having 2.5 minute blocks vs. Bitcoin's 10 minutes, perhaps his choice was a bit on the conservative side.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
The problem is with vendors/sites that force you to wait for multiple confirmations -- the worst are ones that still make you wait for 6 confirmations. I could see it if we were still in 2010... but zero confirmation transactions should be the norm. See: Bitpay.

I've seen it on luckyb.it for the first time. Is there any practical reason for requiring confirmations?

Guaranteeing the funds aren't double spent, or there isn't any attack that can reverse or redirect funds. Just a security precaution that can be used with our current PoW scheme Smiley

I read somewhere(cant remember now) that Crypto 2.0 has instant transactions like stellar, ripple that's why bitcoin should be updated to 2.0

I guess Bitcoin is already updated then Cheesy
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