Why does anyone pay attention to people that study "economics"? - page 10.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: twiifm on January 19, 2015, 05:24:08 AM

where did you read this? I never heard of it before. Can you post a link so I can read?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Limits_to_Growth

Quote from: twiifm on January 19, 2015, 05:24:08 AM

What kind do expansion are you referring to? Credit expansion or population growth?

Economic growth fundamentally.

twiifm

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: steelhouse on January 19, 2015, 05:19:36 AM

One thing you can ask Krugman if you got a chance. Since QE is suppose to be used for asset purchases (overvalued homes most likely schemes of bankers, real estate investors, and appraisers) or for buying treasuries. If QE is suppose to help the economy and the poor, why doesn't the federal reserve just write the people a check?

I think Krugman and the Federal Reserve can easily seen as a fraud.

They don't have authority to do that. But Obama did try a small stimulus in the form of a tax rebate I think.

QE happened because they lowered interest to zero and nothing happened, no borrowing. So they did QE to inject liquidity into banks reserves. But the theory is flawed because it wasn't lack of liquidity it was lack of borrowers. They have no tools to force people to borrow

twiifm

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: CIYAM on January 19, 2015, 05:08:43 AM

Quote from: twiifm on January 19, 2015, 05:05:36 AM

Do you have specific questions? Which of Keynes ideas you want to know about?

Yes - specifically I want to understand why "infinite expansion" is necessary to his economic theory (as it doesn't seem to make much sense to me).

where did you read this? I never heard of it before. Can you post a link so I can read?

What kind do expansion are you referring to? Credit expansion or population growth?

steelhouse

hero member

Activity: 717

Merit: 501

One thing you can ask Krugman if you get a chance. Since QE is suppose to be used for asset purchases (overvalued homes most likely schemes of bankers, real estate investors, and appraisers) or for buying treasuries. If QE is suppose to help the economy and the poor, why doesn't the federal reserve just write the people a check?

I think Krugman and the Federal Reserve can easily be seen as frauds.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: twiifm on January 19, 2015, 05:05:36 AM

Do you have specific questions? Which of Keynes ideas you want to know about?

Yes - specifically I want to understand why "infinite expansion" is necessary to his economic theory (as it doesn't seem to make much sense to me).

twiifm

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: CIYAM on January 19, 2015, 04:23:42 AM

Quote from: twiifm on January 19, 2015, 03:56:31 AM

"I know what I'm talking about despite experts devoting their lives to study subjects that I know nothing about, therefore I am smart and everyone else is dumb" hmm, I wonder

Fair enough - but it is not that I can't be convinced that economic theory (in particular that of Keynes) is both rational and indeed useful so perhaps if my arrogant tone (which was actually meant to be more tongue in cheek) could be overlooked by someone who understands and would like to enlighten me then I am willing to be enlightened.

Do you have specific questions? Which of Keynes ideas you want to know about?

Possum577

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Loose lips sink sigs!

Everything has it's opposition...

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: twiifm on January 19, 2015, 03:56:31 AM

"I know what I'm talking about despite experts devoting their lives to study subjects that I know nothing about, therefore I am smart and everyone else is dumb" hmm, I wonder

Fair enough - but it is not that I can't be convinced that economic theory (in particular that of Keynes) is both rational and indeed useful so perhaps if my arrogant tone (which was actually meant to be more tongue in cheek) could be overlooked by someone who understands and would like to enlighten me then I am willing to be enlightened.

twiifm

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: arbitrage001 on January 19, 2015, 01:46:13 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 03:45:04 PM

At least in the Keynsian variety.

The entire concept is built on infinite expansion which anyone with even half a brain should now know doesn't work as our Earth has "finite" resources (and our ability to find another Earth is not going to happen before we have exhausted this one's natural resources in trying to find it).

I actually think it is rather funny that we have people that are awarded Nobel prizes and given high status at universities (and in governments) when their pseudo-science is really no different to a cult or a religion.

(yes - I like to stir the pot sometimes - so come on you Keynsian fans and smite me)

Existing power structure (goverment/institution) in place operates in a top down manner, of course they will favor and promote any scholars that view the same way.

"I know what I'm talking about despite experts devoting their lives to study subjects that I know nothing about, therefore I am smart and everyone else is dumb" hmm, I wonder

arbitrage001

legendary

Activity: 1067

Merit: 1000

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 03:45:04 PM

At least in the Keynsian variety.

The entire concept is built on infinite expansion which anyone with even half a brain should now know doesn't work as our Earth has "finite" resources (and our ability to find another Earth is not going to happen before we have exhausted this one's natural resources in trying to find it).

I actually think it is rather funny that we have people that are awarded Nobel prizes and given high status at universities (and in governments) when their pseudo-science is really no different to a cult or a religion.

(yes - I like to stir the pot sometimes - so come on you Keynsian fans and smite me)

Existing power structure (goverment/institution) in place operates in a top down manner, of course they will favor and promote any scholars that view the same way.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: 2112 on January 18, 2015, 05:27:43 PM

One would have to live under the stone to not hear about e.g. Black-Scholes option pricing model.

Well the building is actually cement but I guess that's pretty much the same as stone.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: dewdeded on January 18, 2015, 05:26:44 PM

Now every single computer programmer or mathematician should be able to realize that this increased efficiency satisfies the assumption of infinite expansion, at least in this theoretical model.

Because as stated above, denying this would mean: we reach a situation, where the mankind isn't able do improvements and optimizations through brainwork (research and science) anymore.

Okay - that at least makes some sense to me - thanks for the patience.

twiifm

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Clearly you have no clue about economics or Keynsianism.

Nobody disputes that resources are finite. Economics tries to explain why things happen in the economy. Keynes big contribution is the idea of looking at aggregate forces thus the birth of macro

2112

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1065

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 05:02:00 PM

Well - that is interesting - so who are these scientific economists and why haven't we heard of them before (or is this a joke)?

Probably because you can't understand the underlying mathematics.

One would have to live under the stone to not hear about e.g. Black-Scholes option pricing model.

dewdeded

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1011

Monero Evangelist

You seam like to have already found your answer(s). This is my last try communicating with you (on this issue):

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 05:11:13 PM

So what I really wonder is when the Keynsian trained people are finally going to admit that "infinite expansion" is not possible.

They NEVER will. It's part of the model, one general assumption of their whole "theoretical system".

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 05:11:13 PM

Every single computer programmer or mathematician knows this (it is so simple I could teach it to a child who understand math).

(Last try, won't reply again:)
- Every single computer programmer or mathematician knows every complex software system and technologies can always be improved (through research and science).
- Every single computer programmer or mathematician knows these improvements and optimizations lead to increased (better) efficiency (e.g. in ressource usage).
- Now every single computer programmer or mathematician should be able to realize that this increased efficiency satisfies the assumption of infinite expansion, at least in this theoretical model.

Because as stated above, denying this would mean: we reach a situation, where the mankind isnt able do improvements and optimizations through brainwork (research and science) anymore.

Have a nice day CIYAM, you are a good poster overall.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: Flashman on January 18, 2015, 05:11:31 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 05:06:05 PM

To reach another planet is basically so ridiculously hard that we can only hope to perhaps go back to the Moon and

... start drilling for oil there! Wink

Well - I do hope that the US spends a few trillion dollars looking for oil on the Moon (as that would be money most otherwise likely to be spent on its military).

Wink

Flashman

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Hodl!

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 05:06:05 PM

To reach another planet is basically so ridiculously hard that we can only hope to perhaps go back to the Moon and

... start drilling for oil there! Wink

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

So what I really wonder is when the Keynsian trained people are finally going to admit that "infinite expansion" is not possible.

Every single computer programmer or mathematician knows this (it is so simple I could teach it to a child who understand math).

This is why economics is not "science" but instead is a "cult or religion" (i.e. basically just a bunch of crap).

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1078

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: dewdeded on January 18, 2015, 05:02:52 PM

Point 1 still stands and justifies "infinite expansion".

We are currently at the point where finding new fossil fuel energy is so expensive that we won't be able to in fact use it in 50 years (there are plenty of publications to back this up).

To reach another planet is basically so ridiculously hard that we can only hope to perhaps go back to the Moon and maybe send a very few (less than 10) people to Mars in the next 50 years.

That actually won't save the other 8+ billion of us.

dewdeded

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1011

Monero Evangelist

Quote from: CIYAM on January 18, 2015, 04:53:26 PM

It has been studied and it won't work. So think again.

I dont understand you. Even if you dont like the space thing.

Point 1 still stands and justifies "infinite expansion".
If you deny this, you are saying "we reach a level where humanity cant research, improve and innovate anymore". Which is non-sense.

Topic: Why does anyone pay attention to people that study "economics"? - page 10. (Read 9525 times)