Why I Am Not Using Hardware Wallet For Cold Storage - page 4.

Dorky

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Quote from: paulreeves on August 02, 2017, 07:11:07 AM

Currently there is absolutely no procedure to make a cold storage that is 100% safe.

Or maybe you can just be clear and point out how my approach of cold storage will be hackable.
Saying no procedure is 100% safe sounds like speculation to me.

Quote from: RDDRocket on August 02, 2017, 12:03:13 PM

This guy doesn't even understand how Bitcoin works. Rambled on about a bunch of useless points to get paid through that Steemit platform. No, I didn't even read, because thankfully the other guy pasted his main points. By all means, don't use a hardware wallet. Maybe you shouldn't be using Bitcoin either, since you need everything done via holding your hand.

You don't need to read if you don't want to. No, I don't use any hardware wallet. And no, whether I should or shouldn't be using bitcoin is 1) out of topic, and 2) is none of your business.

Quote from: swogerino on August 02, 2017, 12:22:13 PM

Not only Trezor has that capacity to import your seeds in another compatible wallet with the seed of a hardware wallet. Ledger Nano S has also support for it. I think that paper wallets are a pain in the a** while hardware wallets can be used both ways, even hot and even cold storage depending on the user.

Yes, the hardware wallet has support, but please note the support is limited. I didn't suggest paper wallet. I suggested a digitally-encrypted paper wallet. Yeah, hardware wallet can be used for cold storage (but not recommended, except as hot wallet just as an example), in which you will secure the recovery seeds. And securing the recovery seeds is no different from securing the private keys. Some pro-hardware wallet people never realize they actually have to secure their recovery seeds precisely and exactly the way they would secure the private keys. In fact, for such people not realizing this means their security isn't really high despite using hardware wallet.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on August 02, 2017, 04:37:24 AM

The guy lost me at recovery seeds being "paper claims" to private keys. The source code for deriving said private keys from your recovery seeds are out there. You can derive your private keys yourself without the need for any third party support. Also, at least with Trezor, you can import your recovery seeds / private keys into a software wallet such as Multibit, so you're not forced to buy a new one.

Of course you don't need a hardware wallet to store your coins securely. I personally just find it way more convenient to use my cold storage with the ease of a hot wallet.

Not only Trezor has that capacity to import your seeds in another compatible wallet with the seed of a hardware wallet. Ledger Nano S has also support for it. I think that paper wallets are a pain in the a** while hardware wallets can be used both ways, even hot and even cold storage depending on the user.

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Quote from: |Bitkoin| on August 02, 2017, 11:24:16 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on August 02, 2017, 04:37:24 AM

The guy lost me at recovery seeds being "paper claims" to private keys. The source code for deriving said private keys from your recovery seeds are out there. You can derive your private keys yourself without the need for any third party support. Also, at least with Trezor, you can import your recovery seeds / private keys into a software wallet such as Multibit, so you're not forced to buy a new one.

Of course you don't need a hardware wallet to store your coins securely. I personally just find it way more convenient to use my cold storage with the ease of a hot wallet.

You do realize MultiBit no longer exists... right?

I did not, thanks for point it out. You can still import from Trezor to (an old version of) Multibit to Electrum... or actually to Electrum directly, apparently [1]. Point being that with the key derivation logic being public there will always be a way to replace your hardware wallet with a software wallet. Of course this also means to stay away from any hardware wallet that isn't open source.

[1] https://doc.satoshilabs.com/trezor-apps/electrum.html

RDDRocket

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This guy doesn't even understand how Bitcoin works. Rambled on about a bunch of useless points to get paid through that Steemit platform. No, I didn't even read, because thankfully the other guy pasted his main points. By all means, don't use a hardware wallet. Maybe you shouldn't be using Bitcoin either, since you need everything done via holding your hand.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on August 02, 2017, 04:37:24 AM

The guy lost me at recovery seeds being "paper claims" to private keys. The source code for deriving said private keys from your recovery seeds are out there. You can derive your private keys yourself without the need for any third party support. Also, at least with Trezor, you can import your recovery seeds / private keys into a software wallet such as Multibit, so you're not forced to buy a new one.

Of course you don't need a hardware wallet to store your coins securely. I personally just find it way more convenient to use my cold storage with the ease of a hot wallet.

You do realize MultiBit no longer exists... right?

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Quote from: paulreeves on August 02, 2017, 07:11:07 AM

Currently there is absolutely no procedure to make a cold storage that is 100% safe

And there never will be.
Any security can be attacked, just like any bank can be robbed.

What you want to have is a cold storage wallet that is too expensive to attack.

And as for the hardware wallets, they are not "cold" per se - you always connect them to a PC that is connected to the internet.

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Quote from: HCP on August 02, 2017, 06:31:40 AM

Are you sure about that? All you are doing is switching your trust from one software/hardware provider to another (with closed sources)...

But hey, you found a system that works for you... Wink

To be very fair, open sourced=/safe. The user still has to independently verify and install the firmware himself to be 100% safe. Though I find that rather redundant.

Not sure if you are misled or just don't bother researching on the topic but:

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First, I desire to be in control of my private keys.

Do you have any proof that the hardware wallet providers have access to your private key?

As long as you can audit the source code and install it yourself, and can capture the packets sent, I can't see how they can do this without users noticing.

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Second, different hardware wallets, or any type of wallets, be it hardware, desktop, mobile, or online, have different approach to encryption.

Most hardware wallet uses a standard method of generating seeds. It is widely used and with the seeds, you can import it into LOTS of wallet or just simply write a script to extract it yourself.

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Third, replacement cost is very high with hardware wallet.

Refer to my second point.

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I can email myself my strongly encrypted private keys (so even if my email gets hacked, no hacker can crack my private keys unless they have some super hyper ultra quantum computer that can hack into any strongly encrypted private keys within minutes/seconds/hours).

Jesus, I don't even know if I should continue but oh well.

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Fourth, to rely on any 3rd-party wallet to secure and/or cold storage my cryptocurrencies is itself a big security hole.

How are they helping you to secure when you are free to review the code to find and test for bugs? If you don't like to rely on third-parties, it might be better for you to write your own OS or wallet.

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Fifth, I am not a fan nor a believer of some apocalyptic event to be caused by some major EMP attacks, either from some man-made terrorist attacks or from a natural cause like solar spot, solar flare, or solar storm.

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Sixth, direct control of your private keys allows you to enjoy any free cryptocurrency due to hard fork.

Point 2 and point 2.

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Even if I am using the world's most secure wallet ever, doesn't mean I can let down my defense and start tolerating any infested computer.

It's kinda hard to hack a wallet when the keys are never exposed to the outside world.

paulreeves

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Currently there is absolutely no procedure to make a cold storage that is 100% safe. Best case scenario, you get pseudo-random keys. If I get some time in the future, I'll write a small library that translates dice rolls in real world into private key and calculates public address from it. Then you'll be able to run it on a CPU that does not have, will not have and never had any network access and THAT will be safe cold storage.

HCP

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Yeah... I'm not sure about some of his claims either... It would seem that the OP must trust the RAR devs more than Crypto-wallet devs... Is RAR opensource? ummm NO. OP, do you know for sure that RAR has no:

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"bugs, glitches, backdoors, ... etc that either allows them to be hacked or they screws up on their own, or both."

I'll go ahead and guess no... Tongue

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"maximum security (free of 3rd-party trust)/maximum trustless"

Are you sure about that? All you are doing is switching your trust from one software/hardware provider to another (with closed sources)...

But hey, you found a system that works for you... Wink

HeRetiK

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The guy lost me at recovery seeds being "paper claims" to private keys. The source code for deriving said private keys from your recovery seeds are out there. You can derive your private keys yourself without the need for any third party support. Also, at least with Trezor, you can import your recovery seeds / private keys into a software wallet such as Multibit, so you're not forced to buy a new one.

Of course you don't need a hardware wallet to store your coins securely. I personally just find it way more convenient to use my cold storage with the ease of a hot wallet.

Dorky

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Not sure if I should post it here, but I just wrote a steemit article on "Why I Am Not Using Hardware Wallet For Cold Storage" @ https://steemit.com/wallet/@dorky/why-i-am-not-using-hardware-wallet-for-cold-storage to help people make better decisions.

Check it out.

Topic: Why I Am Not Using Hardware Wallet For Cold Storage - page 4. (Read 7265 times)