Why I think Bitcoin will not become an national currency - page 2.

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: Luno on January 19, 2013, 06:52:32 AM

Quote from: ElectricMucus on January 19, 2013, 06:49:02 AM

Quote from: teodor87 on January 19, 2013, 06:45:27 AM

It will not become a national currency, because it is international.

Well we could found a "Bitcoin" Nation Grin

Such a nation exists, it's called "humanity"

Does not compute.
In order to be a citizen of a nation you must first be associated with it, most people never heard of bitcoin let alone own some.
Added to that a nation serves more purposes than those bitcoin itself provides.

A bitcoin "nation" would require additional infrastructure like consensus based decision making for example using merged mining proof of work voting. Some database on personal details like contact, ownership of certain things like land or physical infrastructure and so on. Most of these would be very rudimentary since it would most likely be a decentralized republic, but nevertheless it is necessary.

Luno

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on January 19, 2013, 06:49:02 AM

Quote from: teodor87 on January 19, 2013, 06:45:27 AM

It will not become a national currency, because it is international.

Well we could found a "Bitcoin" Nation Grin

Such a nation exists, it's called "humanity"

ElectricMucus

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Quote from: teodor87 on January 19, 2013, 06:45:27 AM

It will not become a national currency, because it is international.

Well we could found a "Bitcoin" Nation Grin

teodor87

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It will not become a national currency, because it is international.

deeplink

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on January 15, 2013, 09:31:38 AM

Quote from: psybits on January 09, 2013, 02:30:47 AM

Well, it is legal to start your own nation in many parts of the world.

Actually it is not "legal" (recognized is probably a better word) to form a new nation anywhere in the world, at least not one recognized by any current nation. The "nation" club is a members only club. Even if there is some undiscovered land (unlikely since the development of global sat mapping) as soon as it is discovered it becomes part of the closest nation. If a new landmass was built (i.e. massive scale terraforming) it likewise would become part of the closest nation. The club sometimes expands when existing nations are split (usually due to conflict) but that is it.

How do you think the nation member club will react, if seasteading someday becomes reality?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading

DeathAndTaxes

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Quote from: psybits on January 09, 2013, 02:30:47 AM

Well, it is legal to start your own nation in many parts of the world.

Actually it is not "legal" (recognized is probably a better word) to form a new nation anywhere in the world, at least not one recognized by any current nation. The "nation" club is a members only club. Even if there is some undiscovered land (unlikely since the development of global sat mapping) as soon as it is discovered it becomes part of the closest nation. If a new landmass was built (i.e. massive scale terraforming) it likewise would become part of the closest nation. The club sometimes expands when existing nations are split (usually due to conflict) but that is it.

grondilu

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Quote from: jayson3 on January 15, 2013, 02:15:27 AM

1995 article by economist Marry Rot hard about the nature of money. He talks about how gold can be used to eliminate the Fed. Easy to see how bitcoins could server the same purpose.

"Marry Rot hard" Cheesy

xxjs

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Quote from: jayson3 on January 15, 2013, 02:15:27 AM

1995 article by economist Marry Rot hard about the nature of money. He talks about how gold can be used to eliminate the Fed. Easy to see how bitcoins could server the same purpose.

[url]http://mises.org/daily/2882[url]

Murray N. Rothbard

You him no like?

jayson3

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1995 article by economist Marry Rot hard about the nature of money. He talks about how gold can be used to eliminate the Fed. Easy to see how bitcoins could server the same purpose.

[url]http://mises.org/daily/2882[url]

FreeMoney

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Quote from: wormbog on January 11, 2013, 02:33:07 PM

What nation would want to use bitcoin as a national currency? The government wouldn't be able to control it. Deficit spending would be impossible. Good for the people, but bad for the people in charge.

Plenty of governments use currencies that they don't control. They do it because the currencies work much better than what they can manage themselves.

wormbog

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What nation would want to use bitcoin as a national currency? The government wouldn't be able to control it. Deficit spending would be impossible. Good for the people, but bad for the people in charge.

In a future scenario where bitcoin is widely known, it will be thought of as a store of currency, like an alternative to keeping money in a savings account. Want to buy something? Convert some BTC to your national currency, make the purchase. The seller will take your currency and convert it back to bitcoin. Just got your paycheck? Keep a little in cash for pocket money, convert the rest to bitcoin.

At some point a nation will audit a merchant and discover that a significant amount of sales are happening in bitcoin, but the merchant's sales records cannot be verified because there's no bank involved. That will bring it to the attention of the gov't as a threat to tax revenue.

What happens next will determine whether bitcoin emerges as a legitimate international currency or is banished to the black market forever.

jayson3

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1) Bitcoin depends on an efficient. open, and functional internet to exist.

2) Governments never give up power voluntarily

3) in the case of widespread revolution or government collapse. #1 is very questionable. Physical silver is better.

4) If governments stay in control, and bitcoin grows too powerful, they will either destroy it or usurp it.

The best we can hope is that bitcoin can act as a check on government power over our money, making draconian controls impractical because of the bitcon alternative (much as gold/silver have done traditionally).

Bitcoin competition could also force credit cards / banks to offer more competitive services that are lower cost, more private, and less subject to fraud.

Luno

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The point of Bitcoin was for it to become the peoples currency, nations are imaginatory. If you want wide adoptation where you can use Bitcoin almost anywhere, discuss that.

If a nation were to adopt Bitcoin as an official currency, what would the benefit be? This was tried in the Antique; collect taxes in a deflatory currency, outlaw interest = all monetary wealth end up in the hands of a handfull of people the 0.05%, the rest of the people used barter!

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Quote from: Impaler on January 11, 2013, 03:29:01 AM

No nation would ever adopt such a massively deflationary currency as BTC for the simple reason that it would bring economic RUIN.

Economic ruin like EUR or like USD ?

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No nation would ever adopt such a massively deflationary currency as BTC for the simple reason that it would bring economic RUIN.

Realpra

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on January 06, 2013, 09:17:37 PM

I don't think that bitcoin and nations go well together in the first place.

Perhaps not most current nations, but I think for the people a Bitcoin nation would be strong.

I also agree with DeathAndTaxes that Bitcoin will benefit the poor and protect what savings they have. I have always held the view that Bitcoin will help even the last adopter.

psybits

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Quote from: deeplink on January 09, 2013, 11:39:24 AM

Quote from: psybits on January 09, 2013, 02:30:47 AM

Well, it is legal to start your own nation in many parts of the world.

I'd like to know where?

I think pretty much anywhere.. No one will tell you that though!

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/04/diy-nation-how-to-start-your-own-country-three-experts-offer-advice/

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2008/02/25/how_to_start_your_own_country_in_four_easy_steps

There was that abandoned WWII fort near UK Sealand that was basically it's own country as it was in internatonal waters.

I think artificial island is the best way Wink

Who wants to found a BTC nation with me Cool

deeplink

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Quote from: psybits on January 09, 2013, 02:30:47 AM

Well, it is legal to start your own nation in many parts of the world.

I'd like to know where?

FreeMoney

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on January 06, 2013, 09:12:34 PM

3) Money isn't wealth, money is an accounting system.

I think this is an important point and it is often forgotten. The fact that a small number of people own all the bitcoins doesn't mean that everyone else has nothing. If I own a house that is worth BTC10,000 but I own no bitcoins, my wealth is BTC10,000, not 0. There are about 3 trillion dollars in existence, but the total net wealth of Americans far exceeds that value (it was more than $50 trillion in 2009).

Money is a great accounting system for anything that is small compared to the scope of the system, but it is meaningless (or close) for measuring the whole system or a large part.

psybits

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Well, it is legal to start your own nation in many parts of the world.

Would be a fun experiment to make the national currency of it Bitcoin Cool

*Mind goes into overdrive....* Cheesy

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