Why I used to trust Patrick Harnett - page 9.

P4man

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Quote from: markm on September 06, 2012, 03:35:05 AM

I don't understand the argument here. If all my capital is out on loan at some percent interest, why would I not borrow more money at less interest than I loan out at in order to be able to increase the amount I am loaning out and thus increase the amount of interest I am making?

The question is, why would you borrow it at 1% per week when you can easily obtain credit for less than 1% per month? Even a credit card debt is a lot cheaper. And if Patrick can produce 1.5% per week sustained returns, why would he still have to borrow at all? I would have expected someone like that to be filthy rich, since not the best hedge fund managers in the world or even Madoff ever claimed to be able to get anywhere close to such returns.

markm

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I don't understand the argument here. If all my capital is out on loan at some percent interest, why would I not borrow more money at less interest than I loan out at in order to be able to increase the amount I am loaning out and thus increase the amount of interest I am making? It seems to me banks do this all the time, getting bigger is a bad thing all of a sudden? What is the discrepancy? Is Patrick only loaning out a small amount not all that he has available?

-MarkM-

P4man

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Quote from: Scott J on September 05, 2012, 09:28:46 PM

As well as people paying high interest rates for loans, look at the dividend yields here: http://www.stochastically.com/

Which one in particular? most of what I see are:
- Ponzi's, some more blatant than others.
- mining bonds. Sure, they pay high yields, and are not ponzi's, but they lose value much faster than the dividend makes up for. If you create a derivative that passes on the dividend of those mining bonds but doesnt account for their free fall market price, you effectively do have a ponzi. This is basically what Diablo did with DMC and see how thats going.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 06, 2012, 12:15:53 AM

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 05, 2012, 11:48:30 PM

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 10:26:44 PM

So it's ok for Micon to say Patrick is running a scam but not for me to express my opinion on his accusation? What a very even playing field this forum is - not

I think you fail to appreciate the difference between an opinion unsupported by any argument and a reasoned argument. It's not okay to respond to a reasoned argument with a bare opinion and pretend that this in any way invalidates the argument.

Do you have any explanation for why, other than it being a scam, your husband is making so much money he can pay unbelievable interest rates yet doesn't have enough money to pay off his own ultra-high interest rate debt? Because the only reason the rest of us can think of is that he's scamming. If there's some other explanation, we don't know it. And all other such schemes in the past have turned out to be scams.

There's no point answering this.

But there's a point in pretending to?

Quote

You'll believe what you want to.

That's a good one! In case you run short of witty retorts, you may want to add "Says who? and "That's what you think!" to your repertoire.

Quote

Only wrote this in case my silence was construed as ''hiding something''.

I don't know if you're a shill or you've been duped, but there are arguments on the other side that you refuse to either acknowledge of respond to. You simply keep insisting on a position not only in the absence of evidence but against the weight of all evidence.

Do you know why your husband needs to borrow other people's money at outrageously high interest rates even though he supposedly has some sure fire way to turn massive profits? Or are you taking his word for it? All logic and reason suggests that someone who had a source of extraordinary wealth would make paying off usurious loans their top priority.

I find your behavior extremely bizarre. If you're attempting to vouch for your husband, you need to respond to the substance of the complaints.

WifeOfStarfish

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Quote from: JoelKatz on September 05, 2012, 11:48:30 PM

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 10:26:44 PM

So it's ok for Micon to say Patrick is running a scam but not for me to express my opinion on his accusation? What a very even playing field this forum is - not

I think you fail to appreciate the difference between an opinion unsupported by any argument and a reasoned argument. It's not okay to respond to a reasoned argument with a bare opinion and pretend that this in any way invalidates the argument.

Do you have any explanation for why, other than it being a scam, your husband is making so much money he can pay unbelievable interest rates yet doesn't have enough money to pay off his own ultra-high interest rate debt? Because the only reason the rest of us can think of is that he's scamming. If there's some other explanation, we don't know it. And all other such schemes in the past have turned out to be scams.

There's no point answering this. You'll believe what you want to. Only wrote this in case my silence was construed as ''hiding something''.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 10:26:44 PM

So it's ok for Micon to say Patrick is running a scam but not for me to express my opinion on his accusation? What a very even playing field this forum is - not

I think you fail to appreciate the difference between an opinion unsupported by any argument and a reasoned argument. It's not okay to respond to a reasoned argument with a bare opinion and pretend that this in any way invalidates the argument.

Do you have any explanation for why, other than it being a scam, your husband is making so much money he can pay unbelievable interest rates yet doesn't have enough money to pay off his own ultra-high interest rate debt? Because the only reason the rest of us can think of is that he's scamming. If there's some other explanation, we don't know it. And all other such schemes in the past have turned out to be scams.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 10:26:44 PM

Quote from: Grinder on September 05, 2012, 05:15:59 PM

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 01:19:02 AM

Tell tale sign of passive-aggressive loser/bully Micon...

You should stop now. Your desperate attempts at name calling just makes you look sad and certainly doesn't help the person you claim to be the wife of.

So it's ok for Micon to say Patrick is running a scam but not for me to express my opinion on his accusation? What a very even playing field this forum is - not

WifeOf Starfish of 26 years today (wedding anniversary)

Congrats

I dont think Micon was breastfed as a child.

WifeOfStarfish

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Quote from: Grinder on September 05, 2012, 05:15:59 PM

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 01:19:02 AM

Tell tale sign of passive-aggressive loser/bully Micon...

You should stop now. Your desperate attempts at name calling just makes you look sad and certainly doesn't help the person you claim to be the wife of.

So it's ok for Micon to say Patrick is running a scam but not for me to express my opinion on his accusation? What a very even playing field this forum is - not

WifeOf Starfish of 26 years today (wedding anniversary)

Really will zip my lip now...

WifeOfStarfish

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Quote from: chrisrico on September 05, 2012, 09:07:43 PM

Quote from: repentance on September 05, 2012, 03:32:19 AM

If there's one way to unravel any semblance of professionalism you've built up for your business over many months, it's to have your spouse suddenly appear and start engaging in personal slanging matches with your detractors.

I was immediately reminded of Charles Carreon and wife...

Had to look him up and I don't think there's much comparison
Wendy

WifeOfStarfish

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Quote from: Cobra on September 05, 2012, 08:29:19 PM

Quote from: Grinder on September 05, 2012, 05:15:59 PM

You should stop now. Your desperate attempts at name calling just makes you look sad and certainly doesn't help the person you claim to be the wife of.

This thread seems a little off track. I am surprised to see people with many posts and elevated forum status make comments like this. I've been around since January and don't say much because of the many people around here that have this type of attitude. Really......would there be someone out there that would claim to be the "wifeofstarfish" and said person not be the real wife......I doubt it. If I was in the shoes of Starfish I would also wan't to invite my wife to the forums to see the kinds of things he may be dealing with and responding to, like this for example.

And lastly....welcome to the forum WifeofStarfish, I'm sure you see how it is around here already.

Thanks Cobra! I'm certainly well-informed about Patrick's bitcoin business - it's my marital money involved too! And I am entitled to be angry when people slander or troll him. He doesn't show it on this forum but he gets affected by all the negativity directed his way.

Anyway, better zip my lip from now on (with the exception of responding to that idiot Micon)

Wendy

WifeOfStarfish

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Quote from: PatrickHarnett on September 05, 2012, 02:49:04 PM

Quote from: repentance on September 05, 2012, 03:32:19 AM

If there's one way to unravel any semblance of professionalism you've built up for your business over many months, it's to have your spouse suddenly appear and start engaging in personal slanging matches with your detractors.

She's entitled to her opinions.

+1

mb300sd

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Drunk Posts

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 05, 2012, 10:01:33 PM

Quote from: Scott J on September 05, 2012, 09:28:46 PM

How can you not understand that it is possible to earn more than 1% a week, making paying out such an amount profitable?

Not profitable compared to not paying out such an amount.

Quote

As well as people paying high interest rates for loans, look at the dividend yields here: http://www.stochastically.com/

Please show me something that we know is not a Ponzi scheme that has consistently paid out 1%/week or more at low risk.

Quote

It's possible some of the deposit schemes are run as ponzis or are some other sort of scam, but to go after Patrick is crazy.

It's not just that it's possible, no other explanation is known.

Quote

I am honestly upset at the way this forum is going. Healthy criticism is good, but the recent discourse is far from that.

Can you explain why a person with the incredible financial wisdom needed to make that much money would nevertheless be idiotic enough to borrow money at about the highest imaginable rates? The only known explanation for needing so much of other people's money is a Ponzi scheme.

I agree that the recent discourse is far from healthy criticism. If you have any better ideas, I'm willing to listen. But I fear nothing will work and people will invest in obvious scams no matter what anyone says.

Not patrick, but how about looking at BDK's financials.. Very believable 1%/week.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ao892S4MOoDZdGZSbjJVd1ZTbFVLZE5aRE95bE91NVE&gid=21

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Scott J on September 05, 2012, 09:28:46 PM

How can you not understand that it is possible to earn more than 1% a week, making paying out such an amount profitable?

Not profitable compared to not paying out such an amount.

Quote

As well as people paying high interest rates for loans, look at the dividend yields here: http://www.stochastically.com/

Please show me something that we know is not a Ponzi scheme that has consistently paid out 1%/week or more at low risk.

Quote

It's possible some of the deposit schemes are run as ponzis or are some other sort of scam, but to go after Patrick is crazy.

It's not just that it's possible, no other explanation is known.

Quote

I am honestly upset at the way this forum is going. Healthy criticism is good, but the recent discourse is far from that.

Can you explain why a person with the incredible financial wisdom needed to make that much money would nevertheless be idiotic enough to borrow money at about the highest imaginable rates? The only known explanation for needing so much of other people's money is a Ponzi scheme.

I agree that the recent discourse is far from healthy criticism. If you have any better ideas, I'm willing to listen. But I fear nothing will work and people will invest in obvious scams no matter what anyone says.

eroxors

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Think. Positive. Thoughts.

Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 01:19:02 AM

Quote from: Micon on September 04, 2012, 10:42:52 PM

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 04, 2012, 10:40:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Several of us have actually done this in reality (well not the risk-free part, we do take on a lot of risk). This needs to be repeated over and over until you realize that it is actually happening.

Some of us have become very good at picking who to lend to and who not to lend to. Just because you think it is too risky for you and that you would never try to do it does not mean you have to try to make everyone else stop doing it.

I have no objection to you doing it with your own money. And every explanation I've heard for why other people's money is needed fails the giggle test.

+1 / well said.

It's the constant need for new money after claims of making large profits. Tell tale sign of scam.

Tell tale sign of passive-aggressive loser/bully Micon...

This!

Scott J

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Quote from: JoelKatz on September 05, 2012, 08:40:32 PM

All of the signs of a scam are present. No explanation other than a scam is plausible. Therefore, it's almost certainly scam.

How can you not understand that it is possible to earn more than 1% a week, making paying out such an amount profitable?

As well as people paying high interest rates for loans, look at the dividend yields here: http://www.stochastically.com/

It's possible some of the deposit schemes are run as ponzis or are some other sort of scam, but to go after Patrick is crazy.

I am honestly upset at the way this forum is going. Healthy criticism is good, but the recent discourse is far from that.

chrisrico

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Quote from: repentance on September 05, 2012, 03:32:19 AM

If there's one way to unravel any semblance of professionalism you've built up for your business over many months, it's to have your spouse suddenly appear and start engaging in personal slanging matches with your detractors.

I was immediately reminded of Charles Carreon and wife...

BinaryMage

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Ad astra.

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 05, 2012, 08:40:32 PM

Quote from: Cobra on September 05, 2012, 08:29:19 PM

Just because something negative happens to another service provider that had a great track record doesn't mean that the same thing will happen to others with an un-blemished record.

You realize that you're rebutting an argument nobody made. This is likely because the arguments that have been made have no rebuttal. All of the signs of a scam are present. No explanation other than a scam is plausible. Therefore, it's almost certainly scam.

Who is more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: Cobra on September 05, 2012, 08:29:19 PM

Just because something negative happens to another service provider that had a great track record doesn't mean that the same thing will happen to others with an un-blemished record.

You realize that you're rebutting an argument nobody made. This is likely because the arguments that have been made have no rebuttal. All of the signs of a scam are present. No explanation other than a scam is plausible. Therefore, it's almost certainly scam.

Cobra

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Quote from: Grinder on September 05, 2012, 05:15:59 PM

You should stop now. Your desperate attempts at name calling just makes you look sad and certainly doesn't help the person you claim to be the wife of.

This thread seems a little off track. I am surprised to see people with many posts and elevated forum status make comments like this. I've been around since January and don't say much because of the many people around here that have this type of attitude. Really......would there be someone out there that would claim to be the "wifeofstarfish" and said person not be the real wife......I doubt it. If I was in the shoes of Starfish I would also wan't to invite my wife to the forums to see the kinds of things he may be dealing with and responding to, like this for example.

I have done business with Starfish on multiple occasions and feel he is a man of integrity and a pleasure to do business with. Look back at the many pages here from people who feel the same way. I doubt anyone has had a negative experience. Just because something negative happens to another service provider that had a great track record doesn't mean that the same thing will happen to others with an un-blemished record.

And lastly....welcome to the forum WifeofStarfish, I'm sure you see how it is around here already.

Grinder

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Quote from: WifeOfStarfish on September 05, 2012, 01:19:02 AM

Tell tale sign of passive-aggressive loser/bully Micon...

You should stop now. Your desperate attempts at name calling just makes you look sad and certainly doesn't help the person you claim to be the wife of.

Topic: Why I used to trust Patrick Harnett - page 9. (Read 32653 times)