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Topic: Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin? - page 2. (Read 17960 times)

hero member
Activity: 950
Merit: 1001
Freicoin has to be among the worst concepts in a currency ever conceived. Why? Because it does the exact opposite of what it tries to do. If I were to create a currency to benefit the wealthiest 0.001% of the population at the expense of the poor then demurrage is the way to go. To understand this one simply needs to consider that the typical billionaire may actually have less physical cash than the typical occupy protester. Billionaires can easily avoid the cost of demurrage or inflation for that matter by "putting their money to work" but the poor cannot because of the fees involved with "putting their money to work" relative to the small amounts they have.

That's not exactly what Freicoin intends to do. Their goal is for Bitcoin to remain the long-term store of value, while Freicoin becomes the high-velocity everyday currency. Even poor people could exchange effortlessly back and forth because they're both cryptocurrencies.

"Why would I ever use Freicoin, then?" everyone asks. The theory is that loans would be easier to get in Freicoin because of its interest rate. I'm personally not 100% convinced that these loans are desirable, so the Freicoin forum would probably be more inclined than I to debate its economics. I say we just do an experiment.

So if one believes that demurrage is a good idea, they can put their money where their mouth is. Freicoin will either confirm or disprove the merits of demurrage, and IMHO that's better than arguing until we're blue in the face.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
Based on this thread, my guess would be that the Occupy movement isn't interested in Bitcoin because bitcoiners seem to be more interested in bashing the Occupy movement rather than highlighting Bitcoin's features that most likely would appell to them.

Off the top of my head, I would focus on these two features:
- Removing the power of the big banks/financial industry.
- WikiLeaks (overcoming funding restrictions for WikiLeaks and organizations that are banned from the payment industry. If you're feeling especially cheerful, mention how outlawed socialist revolutionary movements all over the world could potentially benefit from this.  Cheesy

I'm certain that there could be more than these to.

Generally, I would say that if all of BItcoin's features would only appeal to libertarians, and nobody else, I'm certain Bitcoin is doomed to forever stay the marginal phenomenon it is today.


As a pretty left-wing socialist type as well as a Bitcoin enthusiast, I would have to say that it's not the 'features' of Bitcoin that I consider 'libertarian', but more that the solution is most actively embraced by that group.  As I understand things, the philosophy is generally that it is OK to leverage any power that one can muster for personal benefit because the 'free market' will sort things out.  Eventually.  My observation of the economy which has grown up around Bitcoin does very little to disabuse me of my understanding of the philosophy, and needless to say I consider the philosophy to be objectionable and generally a fail.  Thus, to the extent that Bitcoin is considered 'libertarian', it certainly has some negative connotations to me and probably others of my general orientation.

Framed differently, I have about equal interest in having 'Joe Sixpack' be raped by 'banks/financial industry' as by any other group or exploitative individuals.  As long as Bitcoin facilitates this (in the real world vs. in some theoretical landscape) it is not especially much of a step forward.  But it does have potential at least if developments proceed in healthy directions.

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
Ooh, zombie thread Wink Last I checked the occupy movement had it's own cryptocoin similar to bitcoin but with characteristics more like scrip. I'll put on my tinfoil hat and guess that was a malicious creation to put in a division between the occupy movement's followers and bitcoin. Scrip makes more sense from their point of view but supporting bitcoin is more likely to achieve the greater part of their objectives than trying to get their own currency off the ground.

Occcu is a joke, but they're still working on Freicoin. I'll be happy when Freicoin starts trading for Bitcoin, if nothing else so the following conversation can take place:

Me: "Bitcoin is everything you want but it deflates and is decentralized."
Occupant: "Pure deflation = no deal! We want some board to vote on how to spend our money."
Me: "Ok, then use Freicoin."
(Months pass...)
Occupant: "Now I understand the technicalities of cryptocurrency, and have diversified into at least some Bitcoin."

IMHO it will be much easier to cooperate than to be combative. What matters is that we give people free choices, and if we're right they'll come around gradually.

Freicoin has to be among the worst concepts in a currency ever conceived. Why? Because it does the exact opposite of what it tries to do. If I were to create a currency to benefit the wealthiest 0.001% of the population at the expense of the poor then demurrage is the way to go. To understand this one simply needs to consider that the typical billionaire may actually have less physical cash than the typical occupy protester. Billionaires can easily avoid the cost of demurrage or inflation for that matter by "putting their money to work" but the poor cannot because of the fees involved with "putting their money to work" relative to the small amounts they have.
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
Based on this thread, my guess would be that the Occupy movement isn't interested in Bitcoin because bitcoiners seem to be more interested in bashing the Occupy movement rather than highlighting Bitcoin's features that most likely would appell to them.

Off the top of my head, I would focus on these two features:
- Removing the power of the big banks/financial industry.
- WikiLeaks (overcoming funding restrictions for WikiLeaks and organizations that are banned from the payment industry. If you're feeling especially cheerful, mention how outlawed socialist revolutionary movements all over the world could potentially benefit from this.  Cheesy

I'm certain that there could be more than these to.

Generally, I would say that if all of BItcoin's features would only appeal to libertarians, and nobody else, I'm certain Bitcoin is doomed to forever stay the marginal phenomenon it is today.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Is this thread truly trying to assert that Occupy Movement people will not embrace basically as many whole bitcoin as you are willing to hand over to them free for them to use?

I had thought that something as simple as giving them a few million to do with as they choose would have been welcomed by them.

But maybe instead you have been taking much the same tack as the bankers they are protesting: "having a medium of exchange is a priviege not a right, if you want to conduct split-barter transactions you must buy from us a medium in which to conduct the splitting of your barter"...

-MarkM-


Not at all - I'm sure anyone would take almost anything given for free.

What we're asserting is that "the Occupy Movement" (your caps not mine) isn't a movement, isn't in any way constructive and has no hope of achieving anything other than what they've already done (which is simply to provide comic relief, humiliate themselves and annoy anyone who isn't a moron.

sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Hey look!  I found a picture of every occupy douche-tester ever.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1020
Occupy protestors are really a bunch of spineless idiots who don't balls to invent and use a new currency like Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Is this thread truly trying to assert that Occupy Movement people will not embrace basically as many whole bitcoin as you are willing to hand over to them free for them to use?

I had thought that something as simple as giving them a few million to do with as they choose would have been welcomed by them.

But maybe instead you have been taking much the same tack as the bankers they are protesting: "having a medium of exchange is a privilege not a right, if you want to conduct split-barter transactions you must buy from us a medium in which to conduct the splitting of your barter"...

-MarkM-
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1026
Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012
Occupy is not a movement based of two reasons.   Once these are settled, then you may have a movement.   


1.  Leadership (no leadership, no direction, no way to gather real influence)

2.  No single message with simple goals


I know people will debate this our outright disagree.   This time is not different.  People need to see progress and you can't have 600 different messages.
hero member
Activity: 950
Merit: 1001
Ooh, zombie thread Wink Last I checked the occupy movement had it's own cryptocoin similar to bitcoin but with characteristics more like scrip. I'll put on my tinfoil hat and guess that was a malicious creation to put in a division between the occupy movement's followers and bitcoin. Scrip makes more sense from their point of view but supporting bitcoin is more likely to achieve the greater part of their objectives than trying to get their own currency off the ground.

Occcu is a joke, but they're still working on Freicoin. I'll be happy when Freicoin starts trading for Bitcoin, if nothing else so the following conversation can take place:

Me: "Bitcoin is everything you want but it deflates and is decentralized."
Occupant: "Pure deflation = no deal! We want some board to vote on how to spend our money."
Me: "Ok, then use Freicoin."
(Months pass...)
Occupant: "Now I understand the technicalities of cryptocurrency, and have diversified into at least some Bitcoin."

IMHO it will be much easier to cooperate than to be combative. What matters is that we give people free choices, and if we're right they'll come around gradually.
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
We should try as hard as we can to become independent of others. Each of us alone suck but we suck much less than if we are in group.

Man, you really mean it. To improve your situation, you should consider getting rid of yourself, since then you no longer suck Wink
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
Fear is the only real currency. Money is a reminder that there are weapons pointed at you.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
because bitcoins aren't accepted at Starbucks or Whole Foods and they can't use them on their iphone as an app.  Also, hippies don't have any money.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
Because they don't want Liberty and true Freedom at all. They are just a gaggle of collectivists looking for a red nickel, and only willing to pay a red cent. They whine and complain about the mega-banks meanwhile, most of them voted for mr. goldman (OBAMA) sachs (at least here in the US). They don't want to lift a finger they want the nanny state to wipe their behinds and dress them. Then they have the audacity to ask the upper middle class to give up what little remains of their bourgeoisie lifestyle. Whilst the ultra-rich benefit from the welfare schemes they demand.

Bitcoin doesn't fit Occupy.

Occupy doesn't fit Bitcoin.

All Occupy is likely to embrace is EBT cards that look like Visa cards and free services on their children's debt dime.

Pardon my rant.

Damn, you hit the nail on the head, this is exactly what's happening.
anu
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
RepuX - Enterprise Blockchain Protocol
Problem is society itself.

And we should get rid of pesky problems...
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Wait, There's still an 'occupy movement'  Huh

I thought that was dead & debunked.

hero member
Activity: 489
Merit: 500
Because they don't want Liberty and true Freedom at all. They are just a gaggle of collectivists looking for a red nickel, and only willing to pay a red cent. They whine and complain about the mega-banks meanwhile, most of them voted for mr. goldman (OBAMA) sachs (at least here in the US). They don't want to lift a finger they want the nanny state to wipe their behinds and dress them. Then they have the audacity to ask the upper middle class to give up what little remains of their bourgeoisie lifestyle. Whilst the ultra-rich benefit from the welfare schemes they demand.

Bitcoin doesn't fit Occupy.

Occupy doesn't fit Bitcoin.

All Occupy is likely to embrace is EBT cards that look like Visa cards and free services on their children's debt dime.

Pardon my rant.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME
Probably because Bitcoin is a pretty complicated concept to get ones head around- not that the Occupy people aren't smart- but I don't think it's really up their alley.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
Why is occupy Wall street movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?


Because they behave like monkeys.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
I never hashed for this...
Quote
I don't want to pay taxes, but I also don't want to rely upon government services. Unfortunately, they do not allow competition, so I have no choice.

There is plenty of competition.  There are 196 countries in the world for you to choose from and find the government most to your liking.  There are plenty of countries that will let you live as a subsistence farmer and never trouble you for taxes at all.  

I have visited about 19 of them and lived in four seperate continents. Different sceneries, different people but different political systems? No. You have to look where the money flows, my friend. Political sovereignty today is a myth. If we look at the UN and our current banking system, there is now a higher power and it isn't our governments. I don't know why people haven't figured this out yet. We are becoming more globalized by the second. We'll see if the coming powers know what they are doing.

Ragnar I feel like I've read all these exact posts somewhere before but I just can't put my finger on it...
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