Topic: Why is there even polls about if BFL is a scam or not? (Read 1593 times)

big question is here who is believing BFL is ok not scam and doing better for bitcoin

The regulators and law enforcement have to make a conscious decision to pursue a matter of this type.  Even if they know about it (which they clearly do at this point) they may decide (for any number of reasons) not to pursue it.  With that said IF they do decide to "go after" BFL it will be methodical, slow and fact based.  They would take there time and build a rock solid case (remember a win is all that matters to these folks and their careers, not the consumers best interest).  Lastly there is a very real possibility that the AG may be diving much deeper than say UCC laws, FTC regulations.  If they are investigating BFL and Sonny they may be looking for other violations.  There as so many laws on the books that they may be looking at other avenues to pursue as well.  IANAL and I don't have specifics in mind but it's not hard to believe they may be looking at mail fraud, wire fraud, false advertising tax evasion and the list goes on for a long time.

Just because law enforcement hasn't taken action yet doesn't mean they aren't and won't however you and I won't hear about it until well after BFL does!  They will not tip their hand and they have all the time in the world so to speak.

In 2006 the USA passed the UIEGA which was aimed at stopping online gambling in the US.  A few brazen poker sites still served the US and they "allowed" two of the biggest sites to serve US customers for almost 5 years before going balls deep with indictments on those two corps.

Not sure if serious. But just in case you are not just being outrageously sarcastic...

BFL has not disappeared yet, but they have only delivered 15% of their backorders (less if you go by hashrate). Just like with BFL's FPGAs, they cannot deliver and are trying to convert the orders to the next generation of product for more money. That way, BFL gets another year, more cash and still don't have to deliver anything.

BFL assured their investors on multiple occasions that they were NOT using the pre-order money to fund operations or development, that it was kept in separate accounts until the order had been shipped.  Here is their latest message on that subject that I know of:
This has been their party line since Oct 2012.

ERK the Founder & others associated with this company are convicted for this exact crime ... there is NO benifit of doubt when there are signs to show this is happening again !!!!

Lets spell it out for u because u are retarded ...

A ponzi defiannition is using new pplz money to pay for previous customers ...

Its called the LONG CON !!

And you know this how? Do you have some inside info on BFL finanacials? I just assume BFL are simply greedy until proven otherwise.

It is Ponzi scheme because without getting more money with preorders they will be unable to ship all existing orders.

Then what is it called? Fraud?

You have a very broad definition of "Ponzi scheme". There is no investment here. The customers are not expecting earnings and getting back portions of their deposits instead. Sorry, it's not a Ponzi scheme, either.

I just bumped my "Do you trust BFL" POLL. Thanks, OP!

^ You know, every single Ponzi scheme (when they run out of money), makes the same point - we are continuing to make payments/ship/etc., therefore we are not a scam/Ponzi/pyramid scheme. So forgive me if I don't care for your comments defending a business that looks very much like a scam right now.

I agree, but breaking federal regulations doesn't make it a scam. Think about the people breaking federal and/or state regulations by trading bitcoins. Are they also scams?


I agree, but that is not a scam.


It also doesn't automatically make it a scam.

I think the only realistic example presented so far is the "two weeks^TM" thing, possibly trying to encourage more people to place orders knowing that they couldn't meet deadlines.

Anyway, this is turning into another BFL hate thread, and I certainly don't want to defend BFL. I'm kind of surprised that various regulators and law enforcement agencies haven't come down on them for breaking consumer laws I wonder if it is because people are screaming "scam!" and "ponzi scheme!".

 So, for anyone else that has an example of why they consider BFL to be a scam, my response is "That may be true, but that doesn't make it a scam."

Sad that this has to be explained even.  Yea, if they scam 9 customers and deliver for the tenth, it's still a scam. Who would've thought.  If they promise a delivery date and especially with an item whose value is dependent on how soon it arrives same thing.

Oh it's not just limited to Butterfly Labs, other companies behaviour on this forum; both current, and past, are equally as deplorable, knowingly promising you statements they cannot deliver on. Read between their lines.

Thanks Hellfish summed up everything I wanted to say but better and faster then i ever could.  Some people got their money out from Madoff for example and other schemes also but the majority does not.

And Bitcoinorama When i read that definition all i could think of was Josh Zerlan's Posts.

BFL is breaking federal regulations by not allowing customers to cancel their orders before they ship their product.  They are also breaking federal regulations by not telling their customers that they have the right to cancel at any time before they ship their units and in fact BFL is telling their customers the exact opposite stating refunds will be refused.

BFL doesn't understand the legal difference between an order and a sale and are using false language to illegally hold customer funds that want it back.  Basically they are trying to get the uninformed to roll over and give up on trying for a refund by stating "All Sales are Final".

BFL is a scam rest assured, delivering a small percentage of units to a small percentage of customers doesn't automatically disqualify all the other relevant facts.

Please remove the heroin use comparison from quotes, just used the first thing that came to mind and it obviously was wrong.  I meant a crime(s) that you should goto jail for.

Fraud is an act of wanton deception. Herein stating "two weeks^TM" knowing full well that date is impossible to commit to, is to wantonly deceive. Stating 'two weeks^TM" repetitively, knowingly deceiving each time, over the course of several months is sociopathic. Fact.


From Blacks Law Dictionary:

Fraud: An intentional perversion of the truth for the purpose of inducing another in reliance upon it to part with some valuable thing or to surrender a legal right; a false representation of a matter of fact, whether by words ot conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of that which should have been disclosed, which deceives and is intended to deceive another so that he shall act upon it to his legal inquiry; anything calculated to deceive, whether by a single act or combination, or by suppression of truth, or suggestion of what is false, whether it be by direct falsehood or innuendo, by speech or silence, word of mouth, or look or gesture; fraud comprises all acts, omissions, and concealments involving a branch of legal or equitable duty and resulting in damage to another.

From Dictionary.com:

so·ci·o·path  [soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-]  Show IPA
noun Psychiatry.
a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

Origin:
1940–45; socio- + -path

Related forms
so·ci·o·path·ic, adjective

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopathic

I gathered. Your name. Lol.