Why should we welcome centralized bodies for Bitcoin mainstream

suzanne5223

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on October 26, 2020, 08:33:13 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 25, 2020, 12:42:26 PM

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.

Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.

Honestly, it seems skeptical to me either but the whole process will be handle by a well know centralized crypto company and we cant know their true intention if we don't give them a chance by focusing on the positive effect it will bring to the market which we have been seeing lately.
The banks and institutions have understood that they cant beat Bitcoin and IMF boss advised them to join the crypto scheme which is the reason why choose to join now.

posi

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It understands that we all love the decentralization aspect of Bitcoin and others cryptocurrencies but we need to welcome centralized bodies for cryptocurrencies to be mainstream. However, this doesn't mean we should be ignorant to examine any shortcomings that may be create by the centralized bodies because we cant know their true purposes and the last time i checked people are advised to always keep the amount they can afford to loose on such platforms.

hulla

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on October 24, 2020, 06:58:51 PM

Quote from: hulla on October 24, 2020, 07:13:19 AM

What I'm about say will hurt alot of crypto enthusiast but we need to be realistic cause if we by any means we wants Bitcoin and others good cryptocurrencies to succeed in becoming the mainstream we have to open our arms for some centralized bodies which I see Paypal as one of them since we also use centralized exchange site sometime but people are not to use them as wallet or exchange site but for payment.

we need popular platforms to include btc or crypto within their payment system. that is, if we want btc or crypto to become mainstream. anyway, as mentioned, it is not that users can directly send their crypto to another entity. the receiver will still receive the amount in corresponding fiat (ex. USD) and not the crypto payment itself. so somehow, there is some control about the usage of crypto.

Yes, we need some popular platforms to include before we can achieve cryptocurrency to be mainstream and its inevitable.
With that been said, what I read is that Paypal won't handle the transaction but users not receiving crypto is what I'm not sure about and if paypal said their users will have the chance to buy, sell and hold crypto it means their users can receive crypto.

ampu

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The centralized institutions will be the places that indirectly help us bring Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to the rest of the world. We need to understand that Bitcoin is too unpopular as it is new and has not been specified in any country yet. There is a lot of bitcoin speculation, we need some certainty for everyone to join bitcoin. The centralized agencies will be the best and most effective advertisers.

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Quote from: davis196 on October 26, 2020, 07:51:03 AM

Unfortunately the vast majority of Bitcoin users don't mind more centralization,since they don't care about decentralization and independence.They just want to make money.
The "decentralization fanatics" are a minority that might leave the BTC community,if Bitcoin becomes more centralized,due to the centralized entities,which are acquiring more control over the BTC market.

If people don't care about decentralization, they should invest on another things (stock, gold, etc.) or use fiat. Besides, people who actually cares about decentralization will never leave BTC community as long as bitcoin protocol itself is decentralized.

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Quote from: claire_lovely on October 26, 2020, 09:36:12 PM

While I prefer decentralized trading, I think that more and more centralized exchanges like Paypal entering the cryptocurrency market is a great thing as it will just drive adoption forward and allow for more methods to obtain Bitcoin. If it's easier to obtain from centralized exchanges, then there's also going to be more volume for decentralized trading.

You are speaking of easy methods to buy bitcoin and singing praises of PayPal, but it seems you have missed an important point. You can't buy bitcoin with PayPal, you can't sell it with PayPal, you can't even call your bitcoin yours when using PayPal, because PayPal is not interested in giving you control, they rather prefer to control you. For them, you are not trustworthy or not responsible enough to manage your money. They want to prevent you from making mistakes constraining your freedom, controlling your decisions, telling you what to do, and how to behave. Indeed, you should welcome centralized bodies if you are no longer in need of freedom to choose.

Unfortunately, Bitcoin gradually going mainstream means limiting the freedoms of people using it.

claire_lovely

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While I prefer decentralized trading, I think that more and more centralized exchanges like Paypal entering the cryptocurrency market is a great thing as it will just drive adoption forward and allow for more methods to obtain Bitcoin. If it's easier to obtain from centralized exchanges, then there's also going to be more volume for decentralized trading.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: plast555 on October 26, 2020, 01:41:27 PM

Paypal's use was already reduced thanks to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency.

PayPal processes 5 million transactions every day, and nearly all of those transactions are consumer transactions or transfers between individuals. Bitcoin's half a million transactions per day is mostly just speculators and investors moving coins in, out and between exchanges, as evident by the spikes of transaction volume when there's rapid price action. And just from common observation, "PayPal accepted here" is hundreds times more common than "Bitcoin accepted here".

I'm sure PayPal didn't adopt Bitcoin because they felt that it's already a threat to their business. Maybe they though it would be in some decades, or maybe they just though it would generate profit for them.

20kevin20

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Quote from: BrewMaster on October 26, 2020, 09:46:53 AM

i have a theory about this.
[..]

Surely is a viable theory, but I doubt that's the case especially as some centralized coins are now sitting among the top cryptos out there. Libra was a huge failure imo because of the missing legal framework that should've surrounded cryptos at the time it was presented. PayPal's news about adding Bitcoin is quite close to the time strong regulations the EU will see, so they could've just waited more before they could 100% legally add their PayPalCoin to the game. In fact, maybe that's exactly what they plan to do: accumulate as many crypto enthusiasts as possible, and then come up with your own coin.

Besides that, obviously, I agree with you - Libra was an utter shit straight from the start to the end of it .. and hopefully will not be revived in the future. What @DooMAD said a few replies above is exactly what I fear: centralized bodies may actually implement a virtual, non-existent Bitcoin and that could go further into an even worse scenario such as artificial Bitcoin inflation and strong price manipulation by corporations.

plast555

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on October 24, 2020, 09:15:14 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on October 24, 2020, 07:39:13 AM

BUT when they come in and want to become something like a "bitcoin bank" by adopting bitcoin, then that is a big malicious move in my opinion. that is what PayPal seems to be trying to do. they want you to give up the freedom you gained by using bitcoin again and rely on them once more!

I don't think PayPal has a malicious intention of taking away the freedom of Bitcoin users, if they did, they would have been active in Bitcoin field years ago. They simply want to make money just like what they do with fiat. This doesn't mean that their service is good or safe to use, I just don't think there's any malicious intent behind it.

Paypal has Finally relized that Cryptocurrency is new and very important technology and whover adopt it as sooner it is as better for their future. Paypal's use was already reduced thanks to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency. so paypal had no other choice but to accept Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency. Besides this they can't do anything else with Bitcoin. they cant control bitcoin or make it centralized. and BTW. we have so many crypto platforms which are 100% centralized. like all those CEX echanges.
so we should see the positive side. and in this case the positive side is that bitcoin and cryptocurrency will get mass adoption with this paypal accepting bitcoin which is a good thing.

Ucy

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The question should be, why shouldn't companies like PayPal develop crypto platforms that are compatible with the Ideals of Cryptocurrency, like decentralization, transparency, immutablity, censorship resistant, privacy-friendly/anonymity-friendly, trustless/permissionless, self-custody, safe/secure, etc. Is it that they can't build such platforms or they just have different agenda that conflict with crypto ideals?
I would not recommend things I do not believe in or trust to people. Doing so will be hypocrisy. Well, people who prefer the centralized platforms shouldn't put in too much crypto in them, or they could preferably use the non-custodial ones.

proTECH77

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As we all know bitcoin is a decentralized currency which any one can use to start or grow a business. Even though other centralized body what to adopt bitcoin, bitcoin will still remain decentralized to others companies that are joining the body to make a good income
many companies has run other cryptocurrencies down just because of other fake body that was joining the company not knowing most of them are scam company looking for people to scam.
I don't think bitcoin should welcome any centralized company because most of them are scam body that will later scatter the company with fake transaction.

DooMAD

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Quote from: BrewMaster on October 26, 2020, 09:46:53 AM

if Libra succeeded then today we were in a very different situation. we would have seen PayPalCoin instead of this news!

Unless PayPal can demonstrate they're operating full reserve of the BTC they claim to be holding on behalf of their users, there's not much difference in practice between a theoretical "PayPalCoin" and this news. It still amounts to an IOU on their database that you may not be able to redeem.

Viscore

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I don't think that is necessary nor to decline such a thing because having them is a part of crypto development and that also it gives a positive impact on the crypto space. Besides those bad claims toward a centralized platform, some of them are seem to be good and helping for the growing market.

And I don't see any reason why we should not welcome them. In fact, a lot of trader and investors are using them which give them an option other than choosing decentralized platforms.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on October 26, 2020, 08:33:13 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 25, 2020, 12:42:26 PM

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.

Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.

i have a theory about this.
right until very recently these centralized parties were thinking about creating their own centralized coin and use the hype to sell it to the masses and make a ton of profit while compete with bitcoin.

the thing is, one of them did it sooner than others thinking they could take the market before others join in. the result was mostly a big failure. that new one was called "Libra". Facebook started the hype of this shitcoin in 2017 right when the market was overhyped with bitcoin setting new highs every week. after 3 years it has not yet been released and it is considered dead already.

other companies seeing that big fail changed their direction and are coming towards bitcoin now. because they know creating their own shitcoin is not going to end well.

if Libra succeeded then today we were in a very different situation. we would have seen PayPalCoin instead of this news!

imstillthebest

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 24, 2020, 06:45:47 AM

should we welcome centralized bodies like Paypal or not since its operation will not be different from a centralized exchange and payment site?

there are centralized services on this crypto and we accept them so why not on this one when you said that it wont differ on them . people are verry allergic to centralized systems but they do also use centralized exchange and others . paypal is not just a centralized platform but its one of the huge and the most reputable among others . like it or not , paypal wont change thier mind and theres always people that are going to support this because not all are centralized haters and not all are paypal haters . most of all this can help crypto grow big

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Quote from: 20kevin20 on October 26, 2020, 08:33:13 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 25, 2020, 12:42:26 PM

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.

Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.

Maybe it is due to the widespread of its popularity also. PayPal is a huge network and it is impossible that they do not know about this technology eversince. They probably made studies before doing so, their intention on the other hand is what I would like to question, likewise with many people in this industry. Ofcourse the idea of them aiming for profit will not be removed in our impressions but is that all? We might not be able to get answer from them directly and it is more likely our observations which would generate answer in this question. The platform still is not finalized and is just being tested in some areas at this moment so we cannot really conclude as this early.

20kevin20

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 25, 2020, 12:42:26 PM

The positive things that may come out of it is the reason why I think we need to give them a chance since the transaction will be operated through Paxos.

Right, maybe I seem a bit too skeptical about centralized parties, but this sudden turn from being against BTC to supporting it all of a sudden by not only one or a few companies but so many in the past year seems just too sketchy for me.

Unless the opposite proves to be true, to me it seems like it's just a plan of theirs. Could very well be that they simply gave up as Bitcoin is slowly gaining a lot of ground, the old "if you can't beat them, join them" idiom. But until then, I can't help but keep questioning this sudden wave of BTC support.

DooMAD

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Quote from: davis196 on October 26, 2020, 07:51:03 AM

Unfortunately the vast majority of Bitcoin users don't mind more centralization,since they don't care about decentralization and independence.They just want to make money.
The "decentralization fanatics" are a minority that might leave the BTC community,if Bitcoin becomes more centralized,due to the centralized entities,which are acquiring more control over the BTC market.

I don't see that happening. Even if more people are choosing to use Bitcoin in the wrong way, that doesn't directly harm those of us who use it correctly. Anyone holding their own keys will always be afforded censorship resistance and full autonomy over their wealth.

It's the people who are unwittingly handing over control of their wealth who are going to inevitably get screwed over, have a really bad experience, or generally be left with the wrong impression about how Bitcoin works who are going to end up leaving. And that's their loss.

davis196

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I wouldn't call centralization as little sacrifice, unless paypal allow it's user to send Bitcoin to anyone with Bitcoin address and pay merchant from our own Bitcoin wallet directly.

Paypal will allow such transactions on their platform only if they get a big share of the transaction fees.
Unfortunately the vast majority of Bitcoin users don't mind more centralization,since they don't care about decentralization and independence.They just want to make money.
The "decentralization fanatics" are a minority that might leave the BTC community,if Bitcoin becomes more centralized,due to the centralized entities,which are acquiring more control over the BTC market.

Topic: Why should we welcome centralized bodies for Bitcoin mainstream (Read 359 times)