Topic: Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters - page 23. (Read 47797 times)

The same goes when you try to see the price of these instamined coins in BTC.


I don't care. I live in the South hemisphere, but in opposite to Notherns, I don't try to enforce the using about the stations of the year over the internet. It would be great if people from North stop this practice.


So, why offer new coins at mining now? Drop the new coins to zero, put only the transaction fees, and people (including miners) will gain a very very precious coin and speculators will be very happy. Coins which are still offering rewards at every new block are scamming you with inflation.


There are a lot of coins with no economic value at all which are scams because the way of the mining schemes. The fact of nobody gived a shit to these coins and so the coin didn't gain economic value doesn't stop the fact of being a scam.


Of course every single coin here favours more early miners/adopters than the laters. But there is an important difference here: Bitcoin didn't change the rules ex-post to favours (even more) them. Darkcoin changed. And also, to have a deflationary coin, or a coin where at a point doesn't generate new coins, you'll need at some point to cut the rewards until they stop to generate new coins.


devtome only looks about the relation between the number of the coins mined in the genesis block or in the first hours and the present number of coins. This is very superficial.

In the case of Litecoin, his was caused the blocks were generated at a more fast rate than the 2.5 minutes interval. This is common at the launch, specially if you don't have a difficulty adjustment per block (like BTC, LTC adjusts its difficulty every 2016 blocks). But every single block at Litecoin generated the right number of coins. In Darkcoin, what happened is totally different (credits to fluffyponny for the graph):



This comment is also relevant about this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpn7fgn

Because it was dying until Evan came out with the artificially inflating Masternode pyramid scheme

Dark coins been out for months now. Why is everyone upset about an instamine now?

No probs ill create a thread just so you can answer

Edit: here you go, now you can stay on topic: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/smooth-the-monero-dev-paid-troll-1001299

Subject: Re: Why the darkcoin/dash instamine matters


Wow, people really do have a problem staying on topic around here. Must be something in the water.

Smooth, you do realise with the amount of effort you have spent slandering and bringing up the 1+ year old instamine non-issue, you could have had a working GUI wallet, fixed monero's problems and kept a little class......

Why not let things be, put your head down and do something useful with your time to help Monero and its community?

Then maybe, JUST maybe you may see a glimmer of hope that Monero might actually be worth something one day.....or not...

Help me out please. I can't find the part of your post that was about darkcoin/dash.

This thing you have about bringing up coins other than the one being discussed as if they are somehow relevant is getting tedious.

But since you did bring it up, let me ask:

What actions were taken by the LTC developer to deceive, mislead, conceal, expand or otherwise exploit the instamine?

In other words was anything like these things done:

Nachoig I said I'll refrain, but since you posted after that, I'll reply to this one and I'm out for good.


That's why you can't have both "back then" and retroactively applied reasoning.


Actual scams tend to have both victims and an economic size. "A scam of X size was perpetrated against Y parties". That's why I insist on these two. If there are no such identifiable variables, it is extremely hard to fit the "scam" profile.

Get the gist of my post. It wasn't about CryptoNote.

This thread has nothing to do with cryptonote. Agree or disagree, please keep it on topic. Thanks.

So, with this this logic, the guy who bought 2 pizzas with BTC 10000 should be a big retarded.


Summer of 2014 in the South hemisphere is between December and March.  




The economy and the contracts per si are being cheated, and probably miners too (except the early miners).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10612547




The discussion is not about economic value. It's about unfair practices.



Bitcoin didn't change the rules of emission, although of its inumerous crashes. This is why it doesn't have any unfair practice. Other coins are instamined too, but they stated this in a clearly way before their launch. Darkcoin didn't this.

About masternodes: Well, the idea is not bad. The lack of economic incentives to run a node in the classical proof-of-work coins is a serious issue in my opinion. Darkcoin at least seems to more worried about providing a solution abou this, although the way how is this being done is very discutible. Beyond Darkcoin, NODE is another cryptocurrency which has a technology which can solve this issue with the proof-of-activity concept.




Don't worry. Unfortunately in this world many people and institutions with questionable practices are the winners. The top 10 coin market cap is a beautiful example of this. Only 3 or maybe 4 of these coins really deserves to stay at that list. The guys behind Darkcoin has the right resources: marketing, PR, contacts on the media and a lot of arguments about how a cryptocurrency should be.

I saw some Darkcoiners at the DRK announce thread on this forum making some sactires about Litecoin. It seems they are really looking to surpass Litecoin's market cap. In my opinion it's really hard to have a convicent answer to why Litecoin. It's a legit coin, with fair launch and respectable people behind its development. But unfortunately, they have a very commodist position, as I stated here one month ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10486790

So, that being said, unfortunatelly Dakcoin/DASH is really a serious candidate to this (and probably this will happen). There are a lot of coins which really deserves to stay about Litecoin. But Darkcoin, with its cheating, doen't deserve this position.



Close topic.

Okay I'll take it you don't want to answer, and want to continue the spin doctor, debating society approach. Fair enough, you aren't required to answer my questions if you don't want.

Peace AlexGR.

BTW:


My question was about the numbered items in my original posts, factual events (to the best of my knowledge) that did not occur with BTC and did occur with DRK.

The "reasonable person" is a rubber that can be stretched any way you like.

For example, I believe that an objectively "reasonable person" could contemplate the possibility that BTC is a pyramid that will enrich its creator since its creator reached billionaire status with his solo-mined / stealth-mined coins.

In the context of this thread, this "reasonable person" is a hypocrite, as he will only "see" a scam in DRK and not BTC.

So, we return to the rubbery definition that suits any argument.

In the end of the day, the financial value of the entire DRK instamine was 50 BTC at that time. And that's just the size of the first BTC block.

When one says about BTC "it was worthless coins then", he must also see that the same was true with DRK more or less.

If one applies retroactive valuation with todays prices, things look far worse for BTC (34k BTCs vs 1mn BTCs).

And when the argument comes, that Evan proposed to fix this with airdroping new coins and was voted down by the community (while Satoshi didn't offer such a distribution fix), we get "ok, it's his coins, why didn't he distribute them"... Like the same question can't be asked for Satoshis 1m coins...

See the hypocrisy and double standards?

And I'm not saying Satoshi is a scammer btw or that bitcoin is a scam. I'm just highlighting how a "questioning skeptic" can see these things. In fact one of the first times I read about bitcoin, it was just a critique of how the hell is it supposed to beat the elites and the financial oligarchy, when it introduces a new class of elites with the creator being on top of a huge pile of coins he created...

Hello puppet. And you will never get it either. And you always wonder why DRK goes up and you have to shill day in and day out and no one gives two shits. Start alienating more people. You will make it big one day. You are the new elite.

Too bad Mintpal is gone. Would be a perfect time to slap the images of dumps happening during those times.

smooth

Start showing some class man. It just might make a bigger difference than all these threads attacking other coins, their developers and even the cults. You don't code, you have a bit of a technical background but you abuse it all the time and bring disrepute to yourself and anything associated with you. This has been mentioned countless number of times. In the past pony used to act a lot more classless but at least he has toned down the rhetoric.

You, othe, Latapie, on the other hand are on a different planet altogether. Even if a scam, CryptoNote is a boon from some really hard core, gifted people. Just because we forked it for good, doesn't provide you or anyone acting in the core team to start acting like you need to liberate people of their misery. Just because you paid someone to write code doesn't make this your own project and or provide you the license to act like the way you have been doing.

All smart techs have great marketing behind it. If you can't win people over, at least don't alienate them for us. Just keep your head in the grindstone and let the community sort it out.

"butthurt" = reality of the situation and not a personal attack?

I think you need to take a step back and recover a little objectivity here.

Maybe you weren't referring to me. If so, then I'd definitely agree with you that some people behave in that manner.

I still think it's reasonable to ask you: Is it possible for reasonable person to interpret the facts stated in my numbered items in such a way as to make an inference that is unfavorable. Yes or no?

I simply said what the reality of the situation is. No intention of personal attack.

I have no interest in further participating here. I started writing the same things to answer the same arguments, but it's just going circles.

The arguments have been heard and it's going over and over the same.

If someone thinks DRK is a scam, and they somehow risk losing money, just don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

That kind of personal attack is dumb and doesn't even fit the facts. If you assume that I'm making these points because I'm butthurt because Monero "isn't doing well," then you have to ignore the fact that the XMR/DRK ratio has been in an approximate trading range for six months and has favored XMR over the past month. It doesn't fit at all.

How about you go back and look at the specific numbered items in my original post and instead of endeavoring to refute them like some kind of spin doctor or debating society, consider how a reasonable person might interpret them in such a way as to make an inference that is unfavorable.

If you can't see that then I will respectfully acknowledge a difference of opinion with you. If you can, then I think we can still respectfully acknowledge differences of opinion or interpretation without getting into alleged motives to attack DRK that don't even make any sense.

Joshuar, I agree that premines and instamines are largely the same and I don't consider them fraudulent if everything is clearly disclosed up front and not changed later. They might be "scams" in the looser sense of not being a good deal of the investor or a model for long term success (much the same thing), but that's quite different. I draw a distinction between that and an instamine that is "accidental", and which had misleading statements, withholding of information and other actions taken to disguise it as something other than a premine.