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Topic: Why the Winklevoss ETF will send Bitcoin to the moon. (Read 5497 times)

sr. member
Activity: 414
Merit: 250
Freedom through Cryptocurrency!
5. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter, since the SEC usually takes years to approve anything.  So by the time the SEC approves it, we'll probably already be at the top of the sigmoid adoption curve and there will be no money to be made in it anyway.

How long does it usually take the SEC to approve a new ETF? If it's only 1-2 years, I doubt we'll be at the top of the curve by then. If it's 3-4 years, then that might just delay widespread adoption of bitcoin as an investment vehicle, which would delay the price curve as well. I think the ETF is crucial to get these really high prices we're all hoping for ($10k per coin and up).

I'm surprised bitchickhusband said this. The SEC doesn't take years to approve ETFs. In fact the application in this situation is moving along at a normal pace. The twins predicted conservatively 6-12 months around two months ago.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully it can be up and running before the end of next year.

"It often takes more than a year from the date of an initial exemptive relief filing for a company’s first ETF to hit the market." - http://www.indexuniverse.com/sections/features/16598-sec-may-streamline-etf-approval-process.html

So "years" may be a bit overstated, but it's very commonly more than a year.

So it sounds like late 2014 or early 2015 would be the likely timeframe for approval. Not bad, if it doesn't drag out any longer than that.
full member
Activity: 188
Merit: 100
there is no advantage to holding shares vs holding btc, is there? Huh

Exactly. So why bother is my question in a nutshell.

Because you have 50million dollars and its hard to get that down at MtGox.


LOL!!!!
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Well i think vergin galactic will beat them  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 4228
Merit: 1313
They did file this in July, so we are nearly 5 months from July 1st to now.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312513279830/d562329ds1.htm


"It often takes more than a year from the date of an initial exemptive relief filing for a company’s first ETF to hit the market." - http://www.indexuniverse.com/sections/features/16598-sec-may-streamline-etf-approval-process.html

So "years" may be a bit overstated, but it's very commonly more than a year.
Geez.  Thats ridiculous.  A year?   This is going to be ancient history by then.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1001

"It often takes more than a year from the date of an initial exemptive relief filing for a company’s first ETF to hit the market." - http://www.indexuniverse.com/sections/features/16598-sec-may-streamline-etf-approval-process.html

So "years" may be a bit overstated, but it's very commonly more than a year.
Geez.  Thats ridiculous.  A year?   This is going to be ancient history by then.
legendary
Activity: 4228
Merit: 1313
Look at GLD.  This is their model.

Most of the gold ETF's in Canada hold gold COMPANIES..not gold itself. Otherwise, why bother with the ETF's MER?  Waste of money....just hold gold outright.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Do we have any time estimate of when this ETF is going live? I'll put in a few buy orders as soon as it does.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 255
5. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter, since the SEC usually takes years to approve anything.  So by the time the SEC approves it, we'll probably already be at the top of the sigmoid adoption curve and there will be no money to be made in it anyway.

How long does it usually take the SEC to approve a new ETF? If it's only 1-2 years, I doubt we'll be at the top of the curve by then. If it's 3-4 years, then that might just delay widespread adoption of bitcoin as an investment vehicle, which would delay the price curve as well. I think the ETF is crucial to get these really high prices we're all hoping for ($10k per coin and up).

I'm surprised bitchickhusband said this. The SEC doesn't take years to approve ETFs. In fact the application in this situation is moving along at a normal pace. The twins predicted conservatively 6-12 months around two months ago.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully it can be up and running before the end of next year.

"It often takes more than a year from the date of an initial exemptive relief filing for a company’s first ETF to hit the market." - http://www.indexuniverse.com/sections/features/16598-sec-may-streamline-etf-approval-process.html

So "years" may be a bit overstated, but it's very commonly more than a year.
sr. member
Activity: 414
Merit: 250
Freedom through Cryptocurrency!
5. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter, since the SEC usually takes years to approve anything.  So by the time the SEC approves it, we'll probably already be at the top of the sigmoid adoption curve and there will be no money to be made in it anyway.

How long does it usually take the SEC to approve a new ETF? If it's only 1-2 years, I doubt we'll be at the top of the curve by then. If it's 3-4 years, then that might just delay widespread adoption of bitcoin as an investment vehicle, which would delay the price curve as well. I think the ETF is crucial to get these really high prices we're all hoping for ($10k per coin and up).

I'm surprised bitchickhusband said this. The SEC doesn't take years to approve ETFs. In fact the application in this situation is moving along at a normal pace. The twins predicted conservatively 6-12 months around two months ago.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully it can be up and running before the end of next year.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Hmm how do you know if you are able to invest with them?

If you have to ask you probably can't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor
hero member
Activity: 614
Merit: 500
The reason for the ETF, which you probably don't know is to make an income off bitcoin on a weekly basis. Ever hear of writing options!!!!!!!!! That's where the money on bitcoin will be made. 10$ price swing on a option you bought for 2$ at the current strike price 500% profit in minutes! Wake up and read some books on trading and the market!

Options on volatile products are priced higher, market makers are not stupid.



That's exactly what people that are writing the option want!!!! Huge volatility premium. I mean if I can sell 100$ out of the money for a couple bucks on wed and it expires on Friday..... Pretty sure I just got paid without losing a thing! Just look at an option chain on appl or goog. Way out of the money is still great weekly gains!

Your first post was confusing because you were arguing for both sides, selling and buying options, and of course it's impossible for both sides to make money at the same time. I'm an option seller and I can tell you it's not as obvious as you made it sound. I sold calls in GOOG before their last earnings report way out of the money and lost my shirt over it. In that particular case, the implied volatility in the options was simply too cheap. The marketplace as a whole decides on the volatility of options and it is not easy to outsmart the collective intelligence of the marketplace. Now, I believe that statistically option sellers have an advantage over options buyers (using certain strategies), because options are a form of insurance and insurance tends to be overpaid for. But again, I don't think it's obvious and easy at all to consistently make money trading options.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
The purpose of winklevii etf is to offer investors exposure to bitcoin without having them to worry about anything else.

There is a learning curve right now for individuals to get their feet wet.
You must go through a lot of thing like what is bitcoin, where it is stored, how to use wallets, what are the private keys, what is the blockchain, the transaction confirmations etc.

On top of that you have to deal with more or less unregulated and not yet 100% trustworthy companies to buy and sell them.

With the etf you can just buy shares and voila. You are in  Cool

full member
Activity: 237
Merit: 101
The reason for the ETF, which you probably don't know is to make an income off bitcoin on a weekly basis. Ever hear of writing options!!!!!!!!! That's where the money on bitcoin will be made. 10$ price swing on a option you bought for 2$ at the current strike price 500% profit in minutes! Wake up and read some books on trading and the market!

Options on volatile products are priced higher, market makers are not stupid.



That's exactly what people that are writing the option want!!!! Huge volatility premium. I mean if I can sell 100$ out of the money for a couple bucks on wed and it expires on Friday..... Pretty sure I just got paid without losing a thing! Just look at an option chain on appl or goog. Way out of the money is still great weekly gains!
So you are talking about writing the out of the money options that you sell to people as lottery tickets?
So I guess you would then be making money by assuming the small but potentially really expensive risk.
full member
Activity: 209
Merit: 100
There may be tax / pension incentives to invest via ETFs.

If one's pension provider allows investment in this is it could be tax deductible as a pension contribution or via tax free investment vehicles.

Could be worth anything from 10-40% in many 'developed' countries.

This might offset the higher risk (by not owning the keys, and risk of govt intervention) for some investors.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
5. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter, since the SEC usually takes years to approve anything.  So by the time the SEC approves it, we'll probably already be at the top of the sigmoid adoption curve and there will be no money to be made in it anyway.

How long does it usually take the SEC to approve a new ETF? If it's only 1-2 years, I doubt we'll be at the top of the curve by then. If it's 3-4 years, then that might just delay widespread adoption of bitcoin as an investment vehicle, which would delay the price curve as well. I think the ETF is crucial to get these really high prices we're all hoping for ($10k per coin and up).

I'm surprised bitchickhusband said this. The SEC doesn't take years to approve ETFs. In fact the application in this situation is moving along at a normal pace. The twins predicted conservatively 6-12 months around two months ago.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
The etf will help drive adoption but let's not forgt we can already buy fractions

It addresses the access problem for joe public and that's important
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
Well the ETF will allow shorting unlike that available with any other platform.

I thought there was shorting on Bitfinex. Am I mistaken?

No, there is.
sr. member
Activity: 414
Merit: 250
Freedom through Cryptocurrency!
Well the ETF will allow shorting unlike that available with any other platform.

I thought there was shorting on Bitfinex. Am I mistaken?
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
HODL OR DIE
Well the ETF will allow shorting unlike that available with any other platform.
sr. member
Activity: 414
Merit: 250
Freedom through Cryptocurrency!
5. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter, since the SEC usually takes years to approve anything.  So by the time the SEC approves it, we'll probably already be at the top of the sigmoid adoption curve and there will be no money to be made in it anyway.

How long does it usually take the SEC to approve a new ETF? If it's only 1-2 years, I doubt we'll be at the top of the curve by then. If it's 3-4 years, then that might just delay widespread adoption of bitcoin as an investment vehicle, which would delay the price curve as well. I think the ETF is crucial to get these really high prices we're all hoping for ($10k per coin and up).
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