Will governments capitulate and finally recognize Bitcoin as a legal tender?

wxa7115

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Quote from: wiss19 on October 18, 2021, 03:51:08 PM

Someone pointed out that superpower countries are going to be the ones that are not going to accept it. Take China for example, with the way they are going do you think that they will ever want to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender? I don’t think so.

Most of these big countries are not going to do that, you should also imagine England choosing bitcoin over their pounds sterling, and the United States choosing it over the United States Dollar, how possible could that be? If you look at all these things you would see that it’s really not going to work as you think. That El Salvador did it doesn’t mean that others are also going to do the same thing.

Recognizing bitcoin as a legal tender is not really choosing between fiat or bitcoin, governments could still print their fiat and make bitcoin legal tender alongside it, however even this scenario is unlikely under normal circumstances.

So when this could happen? When circumstances are anything but normal, right now governments are recognizing inflation is high but they are assuring their population that this is temporal, but what if it is not? At some point people will realize how much purchasing power they are losing and they will look for ways to keep it, and bitcoin will be there for them, bitcoin will become a de facto legal tender, and after some time the government will have no other option but to recognize this on the law.

sgenuine

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I see that countries mostly with weak economy are adopting Bitcoin now as their national currency is subject to hyperinflation while Bitcoin seems to be more secure. As for developed countries, I don't think that they will accept crypto as a national currency in the nearest future as authorities certainly don't want to lose control over finances.

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Quote from: turneps on November 07, 2021, 09:57:23 AM

Is Bitcoin Legal or Illegal? The answer – it depends on the user's location and activity.
Consumers have a greater ability to purchase goods and services with Bitcoin Although Bitcoin appears at a glance as a well-established electronic money system, there is still no unified international law governing Bitcoin.
Some countries have indirectly adopted the legal use of Bitcoin by enacting some regulatory oversight. Such as: United States, Canada, Australia, Venezuela, European Union, ...
While Bitcoin is welcomed in many parts of the world, some countries are wary of its volatility, decentralization, perceived threat to existing monetary systems and links to other currencies. illegal activities such as drug trafficking and money laundering. Some countries have completely banned digital currencies while others have tried to cut off any support from the banking and financial system necessary for transactions and use. Such as: China, Russia, Bolivia, Columbia and Ecuador, Vietnam,...

Exactly. It all depends on a governments' stance towards Bitcoin. Adopting it as legal tender would only increase Bitcoin's growth within that region. The more popular Bitcoin becomes, the more tempted governments will be in legalizing Bitcoin for their own benefit. After all, they wouldn't want to miss a huge opportunity to profit from crypto taxes. El Salvador became the first country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender, while others are in the process of doing so (mainly countries in Latin America). Developed countries like the United States and UK are already devising laws in order to legitimize Bitcoin as much as possible. This is good because it takes Bitcoin one step closer towards becoming a global cryptocurrency. Who knows if Bitcoin manages to replace Fiat sometime in the future? Just my thoughts Grin

turneps

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Is Bitcoin Legal or Illegal? The answer – it depends on the user's location and activity.
Consumers have a greater ability to purchase goods and services with Bitcoin Although Bitcoin appears at a glance as a well-established electronic money system, there is still no unified international law governing Bitcoin.
Some countries have indirectly adopted the legal use of Bitcoin by enacting some regulatory oversight. Such as: United States, Canada, Australia, Venezuela, European Union, ...
While Bitcoin is welcomed in many parts of the world, some countries are wary of its volatility, decentralization, perceived threat to existing monetary systems and links to other currencies. illegal activities such as drug trafficking and money laundering. Some countries have completely banned digital currencies while others have tried to cut off any support from the banking and financial system necessary for transactions and use. Such as: China, Russia, Bolivia, Columbia and Ecuador, Vietnam,...

Abiky

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Quote from: wiss19 on October 18, 2021, 03:51:08 PM

Someone pointed out that superpower countries are going to be the ones that are not going to accept it. Take China for example, with the way they are going do you think that they will ever want to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender? I don’t think so.

Most of these big countries are not going to do that, you should also imagine England choosing bitcoin over their pounds sterling, and the United States choosing it over the United States Dollar, how possible could that be? If you look at all these things you would see that it’s really not going to work as you think. That El Salvador did it doesn’t mean that others are also going to do the same thing.

Developed countries like the USA and UK are simply too big to fail. What makes you think they'll abandon Fiat for Bitcoin? Their economies are going strong without Bitcoin in play, so it's unlikely they'll make the cryptocurrency legal tender in the future. For developing (third world) countries, that's another story. The main reason why El Salvador adopted Bitcoin as legal tender, is because the government wanted to save its economy. After all, Bitcoin is deflationary whereas the US Dollar is not.

I have a feeling other developing countries (mostly Latin American countries) will follow El Salvador's footsteps as their economies continue to sink. What matters is that Bitcoin remains decentralized and censorship-resistant. Only then, people can enjoy true financial freedom. Who knows if Bitcoin lasts for generations? Just my thoughts Grin

Silberman

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Quote from: Abiky on October 18, 2021, 09:24:06 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

After El Salvador regulated Bitcoin as legal tender, other countries are tempted to follow in its footsteps:

Brazil Set To Adopt Bitcoin As Its Legal Tender

Panama unveils bill to make Bitcoin legal tender

Ukraine could soon become the second country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

Obviously these are countries that have seen an opportunity, but it is much more difficult for countries like the USA, EU countries, Australia, etc. to do so. So far Bitcoin has been regulated in most countries as (intangible) property. Consequently, it has also been taxed so that every time you spend Bitcoin you should declare and pay taxes. If you buy $1,000 of Bitcoin, the price goes up 10% and you buy a $5 coffee at Starbucks, you will owe taxes on 10% of that $5. If the next day the price of Bitcoin goes down and it is only 5% above your initial investment, when you make a purchase you will also owe taxes but only on 5%.

This, as I explained in another thread, makes it difficult for Bitcoin to be used as a day-to-day currency. In order to keep track of all transactions and pay taxes correctly you should rely on some App or some kind of software that keeps track of transactions and does the calculations for you. This means giving up your privacy and giving your purchase data to a centralized entity.

However, if Bitcoin is recognized as a legal tender, you will no longer have to pay taxes for buying coffees. In the same way that you don't have to pay taxes when you shop at the supermarket in dollars because the dollar has appreciated 2% against the euro in the last day.

I understand that the governments of the most economically powerful countries are going to be much more reticent than El Salvador and others who are seeing an opportunity.

On the one hand, if they make it legal to tender, they will lose money to be collected in direct taxes, and on the other hand they will lose at least part of the power they have with the massive printing of currency.

That is why I wonder if in the future, more and more countries will pass legislation that considers Bitcoin legal to tender and in the end the more economically powerful countries will have to capitulate and do the same.

What do you think?

I think other countries will watch El Salvador closely, in order to make their move. If adopting Bitcoin as legal tender becomes a long-term success, you can rest assured that countries in Latin America will do the same. For developed countries like the USA, UK, and Australia, that's another story. Their economies are going well without Bitcoin, so there would be no need to make it legal tender. Especially the US, where the US Dollar is going strong. It's hard to believe governments will give up Fiat in exchange for Bitcoin, since the latter is decentralized and outside of their control. As long as Bitcoin cannot be controlled by the government, the chances of being adopted as legal tender are slim. I'm fine with that as long as Bitcoin remains a decentralized and censorship-resistant cryptocurrency anyone can use worldwide. Just my opinion

And that is fine with me, however we are going to have to see if in the future the US and other powerful countries begin to pressure El Salvador and other countries that could be potentially interested in adopting bitcoin as legal tender in order to not do so, after all we know the US government is very powerful and influential and they could use their soft power to slow down or outright stop the progress of bitcoin on that particular field.

wiss19

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Someone pointed out that superpower countries are going to be the ones that are not going to accept it. Take China for example, with the way they are going do you think that they will ever want to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender? I don’t think so.

Most of these big countries are not going to do that, you should also imagine England choosing bitcoin over their pounds sterling, and the United States choosing it over the United States Dollar, how possible could that be? If you look at all these things you would see that it’s really not going to work as you think. That El Salvador did it doesn’t mean that others are also going to do the same thing.

TheGreatPython

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Quote from: bitgolden on October 18, 2021, 09:48:06 AM

you may hold as much as bitcoins but you may need to pay tax for what ever amount that you are going to spend.

This sounds valid and practical because this is how a system should work. Governments will not be having any problem to make bitcoin is a legal tender when they are able to tax a bitcoiner. I guess in near future we might be having this kind of taxation system. I understand what you are mentioning is just a draft work still government may work on this kind of solution to fine-tune it and to enhance it so that they will find a suitable solution for taxation of crypto transactions.

If this will lead to a proper working solution for taxing of crypto transactions then I guess almost every country will go for making bitcoin a legal tender. This will definitely will take bitcoin into million-dollar levels.

onecall123

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No one makes fun of it. Blockchains exist, but none one get competitor. Authorities don't want a competition to their fiat. It will either be taken over or banned in favor of making their own digital currency, which has already been implemented by the central banks. The Chinese government banned crypto to buy the dip and announce the e-yuan as backed by the government. But nothing is impossible.

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

On the one hand, if they make it legal to tender, they will lose money to be collected in direct taxes, and on the other hand they will lose at least part of the power they have with the massive printing of currency.

For good and services, the direct taxes will not get any impact because of adopt of bitcoin in my understanding. One probable solution for governments is they will enforce to register our bitcoin addresses with their ledger and then will enforce to do all bitcoin transaction through that addy only. You may have 100s of BTC addys but when you are going to buy a product the merchant will accept payment only from your registered bitcoin addy. So, your BTC spending could be monitored at some level and from that government will tax you.

This is based on an assumption like, you may hold as much as bitcoins but you may need to pay tax for what ever amount that you are going to spend.

So, governments may come forward without much hesitations when they will find more proper solutions to tax us wherever applicable even we are living with decentralized money.

Abiky

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

After El Salvador regulated Bitcoin as legal tender, other countries are tempted to follow in its footsteps:

Brazil Set To Adopt Bitcoin As Its Legal Tender

Panama unveils bill to make Bitcoin legal tender

Ukraine could soon become the second country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

Obviously these are countries that have seen an opportunity, but it is much more difficult for countries like the USA, EU countries, Australia, etc. to do so. So far Bitcoin has been regulated in most countries as (intangible) property. Consequently, it has also been taxed so that every time you spend Bitcoin you should declare and pay taxes. If you buy $1,000 of Bitcoin, the price goes up 10% and you buy a $5 coffee at Starbucks, you will owe taxes on 10% of that $5. If the next day the price of Bitcoin goes down and it is only 5% above your initial investment, when you make a purchase you will also owe taxes but only on 5%.

This, as I explained in another thread, makes it difficult for Bitcoin to be used as a day-to-day currency. In order to keep track of all transactions and pay taxes correctly you should rely on some App or some kind of software that keeps track of transactions and does the calculations for you. This means giving up your privacy and giving your purchase data to a centralized entity.

However, if Bitcoin is recognized as a legal tender, you will no longer have to pay taxes for buying coffees. In the same way that you don't have to pay taxes when you shop at the supermarket in dollars because the dollar has appreciated 2% against the euro in the last day.

I understand that the governments of the most economically powerful countries are going to be much more reticent than El Salvador and others who are seeing an opportunity.

On the one hand, if they make it legal to tender, they will lose money to be collected in direct taxes, and on the other hand they will lose at least part of the power they have with the massive printing of currency.

That is why I wonder if in the future, more and more countries will pass legislation that considers Bitcoin legal to tender and in the end the more economically powerful countries will have to capitulate and do the same.

What do you think?

I think other countries will watch El Salvador closely, in order to make their move. If adopting Bitcoin as legal tender becomes a long-term success, you can rest assured that countries in Latin America will do the same. For developed countries like the USA, UK, and Australia, that's another story. Their economies are going well without Bitcoin, so there would be no need to make it legal tender. Especially the US, where the US Dollar is going strong. It's hard to believe governments will give up Fiat in exchange for Bitcoin, since the latter is decentralized and outside of their control. As long as Bitcoin cannot be controlled by the government, the chances of being adopted as legal tender are slim. I'm fine with that as long as Bitcoin remains a decentralized and censorship-resistant cryptocurrency anyone can use worldwide. Just my opinion

Silberman

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Quote from: AicecreaME on October 14, 2021, 05:55:28 AM

It's a subjective question. This matter really depends on what country we are talking about and what kind of government they have. For those developed and first world countries, it would really take time for their government to recognize and acknowledge bitcoin and other coins to be a legal tender since most of them mainly focus on growing their local currency and boosting it. Instead of accepting crypto, they would rather focus on their own currency and utilize it to make its purchasing power more efficient and strong.

In addition, most of them think that crypto don't really have that much value. And given its nature which is decentralized, they won't get to control it like what they usually do with fiat money when they need and want to - they just print out of thin air. I guess what's more likely to accept crypto as legal tenders are the ones who are still developing just like El Salvador and most likely Venezuela and Paraguay. Because they think that crypto will help their economy and its transition to digital world. They have seen its potential and they believe in it which is a brave move if i must say.

This makes sense, powerful countries see all the money that is being generated in the industry and they want some of that money for themselves but at the same time they do not want bitcoin to grow and become even more powerful, this is a difficult dilemma and they have decided they will deal with this by regulating bitcoin to the extreme, but this means people will not want to use their money there, however the acceptance that other countries could offer is way more friendly and this means that over the long term users and businesses will tend to gravitate towards the countries which are more friendly to them.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on October 14, 2021, 05:55:08 PM

I believe governments have recently considered accepting BTC as a payment coin and as a means to be used as a legal tender. El Salvador I watched the developments in this country about The acceptance of BTC as payment coin and monthly salary for people in their country is gradually being accepted. But it seems that there are still some issues that have not been fully resolved so that some countries on their central bank side are still apprehensive about BTC.

You are right, in fact this is something very normal, I imagine that the president of El Salvador had to have foreseen all these scenarios, everything comes from changing the mental chip from the safe to the "volatile", from a traditional economy to an economy " deflationary ", in addition to that many people in El Slavador are going through a process that they have to learn much more about BTC, even so many still continue wasting the opportunity that the government is giving them, this is a unique opportunity that these people have , they really do not know the benefits that are being lost, more if they give the payments in BTC.

Semar Mesem

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Quote from: TheEconomists on October 10, 2021, 03:29:29 AM

With many government of the world will accept Bitcoin and other crypto currency as a legal tender but before then government will to regulate it's operation and other activities. If the happen issue of anonymity will no longer exist because government will have to know each every account owners to enable them the compliance for tax payment.

The first step that we are seeing now is the implementation of KYC, I believe that if the use of crypto becomes more massive, then to withdraw money, I need to have verified the address and so on, as long as it is not detrimental, of course, this is a good step and I hope that if the government enters crypto, it can do something. many things not only income from taxes but security of crypto users.

Marvell1

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I believe governments have recently considered accepting BTC as a payment coin and as a means to be used as a legal tender. El Salvador I watched the developments in this country about The acceptance of BTC as payment coin and monthly salary for people in their country is gradually being accepted. But it seems that there are still some issues that have not been fully resolved so that some countries on their central bank side are still apprehensive about BTC.

AicecreaME

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It's a subjective question. This matter really depends on what country we are talking about and what kind of government they have. For those developed and first world countries, it would really take time for their government to recognize and acknowledge bitcoin and other coins to be a legal tender since most of them mainly focus on growing their local currency and boosting it. Instead of accepting crypto, they would rather focus on their own currency and utilize it to make its purchasing power more efficient and strong.

In addition, most of them think that crypto don't really have that much value. And given its nature which is decentralized, they won't get to control it like what they usually do with fiat money when they need and want to - they just print out of thin air. I guess what's more likely to accept crypto as legal tenders are the ones who are still developing just like El Salvador and most likely Venezuela and Paraguay. Because they think that crypto will help their economy and its transition to digital world. They have seen its potential and they believe in it which is a brave move if i must say.

izsara

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Quote from: FanEagle on October 11, 2021, 09:43:00 AM

I believe legal tender would be harsh, however accepting it as a currency that could be used in certain cases could be done. Think about it this way if I live in USA and can buy something with Euro then it is not a legal tender is it? I mean it sort of is but it is not exactly their national currency neither, I can go to whole world and exchange dollars and Euros for the national fiat of wherever I am which would make me a good profit in the end as well if I am trading it carefully.

Crypto is already sort of like that, as long as you can exchange it for fiat, then you should be considering it like a currency. Foreign currency exchanges in touristic places do usually have crypto these days and that is what matters to me.

I'm not too surprised when Portugal can beat with such a landslide score considering the two teams are very different in terms of quality and especially for Ronaldo I can't say anything more about this guy, he always makes people chuckle for what he does in the field.

and for England, they have a lot of work to do, especially for finishing, which is like a scourge that England can't handle, especially during yesterday's match.
they are indeed very good both in possession and pressing but they are always weak in finishing.

tulusikhlas

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Quote from: Botnake on October 10, 2021, 04:36:48 PM

Quote from: tulusikhlas on October 09, 2021, 03:09:19 PM

There is always an opposition against adopting Bitcoin in every country. As is the case in El Salvador not all accept Bitcoin but all have alternatives to using other available finance. I'm not sure for all countries really recognize decentralization that they don't fully control the rate of transactions. Because if they finally admit it, then at least there must be a tax that the government should get from it.

For those countries who had accepted and recognize bitcoin as a legal tender, then they are surely obliged to pay taxes on the government. But for those who are not, no tax will be collected. But even if means huge amount of tax from bitcoin, i think the government is not convinced yet to finally recognize bitcoin as a legal tender because bitcoin requires more transparency wherein the government don't have any. And for now, they are more focused on fiat that is fully centralized even if the rising inflation is becoming more inevitable.

Therefore, if the concept is in the application of Bitcoin in a country, then it is better to make it only an investment alternative. Because when they worry about the opposition trying to make the issue of shifting fiat money by Bitcoin. So when countries don't want Bitcoins as a legal payment, they can put Bitcoins only for investment alternatives as stocks do in general.

Silberman

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Quote from: romero121 on October 10, 2021, 06:59:18 PM

We should not expect very fast acceptance. It takes time, just think of El Salvador. The country's government haave supported, but certain groups have been protesting an were against the decision. This is an example. Same as this different countries have varied varied views on bitcoin. To come to a common level of acceptance/adoption isn't simple. Countries that were against bitcoin usage have now on the process of legalizing its usage. Slowly this transition will happen with adoption as well.

It is going to be a very slow process as we cannot expect governments to accept so easily that another currency can used on their territory as this could put their own national currency at risk, if anything what we are seeing at El Salvador is incredible as I did not thought that something like this will be possible so soon, but this also shows what it can be achieved once government support is reached, under those circumstances adoption skyrockets as what we have seen at El Salvador can show right now.

FanEagle

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I believe legal tender would be harsh, however accepting it as a currency that could be used in certain cases could be done. Think about it this way if I live in USA and can buy something with Euro then it is not a legal tender is it? I mean it sort of is but it is not exactly their national currency neither, I can go to whole world and exchange dollars and Euros for the national fiat of wherever I am which would make me a good profit in the end as well if I am trading it carefully.

Crypto is already sort of like that, as long as you can exchange it for fiat, then you should be considering it like a currency. Foreign currency exchanges in touristic places do usually have crypto these days and that is what matters to me.

Topic: Will governments capitulate and finally recognize Bitcoin as a legal tender? (Read 444 times)