Will governments capitulate and finally recognize Bitcoin as a legal tender? - page 3.

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: paxmao on October 08, 2021, 05:54:03 AM

A bit of an aggressive language ... capitulate... we could even go further and say concede defeat or even surrender to the obvious

I think that bitcoin should be accepted by the governments as a way of payment, however it does not have the right characteristics to be the only currency of a country because is specifically designed to avoid flexibility in the monetary policies, which means that it does not allow you to play politics.

Governments will not "capitulate" of course, nor will concede defeat. However letting crypto become bigger and bigger would mean fiat will grow smaller and smaller which would result with fiat not being used as much which would weaken the governments. That is the type of situation we are in at El Salvador and in the long term El Salvador will turn to becoming fully crypto as well, of course optional but still if a nation is 90% crypto using and only 10% fiat then the fiat of that nation will suck.

If bigger nations do that as well then we are going to see governments have a lot less power. This is why it is sort of like "capitulate" when they recognize bitcoin as legal tender.

palle11

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 06, 2021, 10:37:09 PM

Superpower countries will be the hardest one to budge in, other countries wouldn't have that much problem so I am pretty sure that this is going to be a chain reaction that has the superpowers at the end of the domino line.

They are seating on the fence actually but I like that they are not making it transaction a ban for the users. It is just a moment of time for that legal status to happen because taxes are collected over the transaction so what else? IMO collection of taxes is a driver to making a legal status of it too, maybe it will take the masses to agitate over that. However there are bitcoin mechines all over the EU and USA , it is just as saying it has a legal backing already.

ChiBitCTy

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Very interesting, I had not know that these other countries were considering adopting bitcoin as legal tender as well. I am not sure that any of the major world players will be considering adopting bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies anytime soon however. Especially countries like the United States who currently hold the worlds reserve currency. Maybe one day though.

paxmao

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A bit of an aggressive language ... capitulate... we could even go further and say concede defeat or even surrender to the obvious

I think that bitcoin should be accepted by the governments as a way of payment, however it does not have the right characteristics to be the only currency of a country because is specifically designed to avoid flexibility in the monetary policies, which means that it does not allow you to play politics.

Lucius

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El Salvador has become an example that everyone refers to when it comes to accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender, but most forget that the country has not had its national currency for 20 years, and that it uses the US dollar as a replacement. To this fact it should be added that they have a president and a government that is for Bitcoin, so it was relatively easy for them to put their plan into action.

On the other hand, any other country that has its own currency would, by recognizing Bitcoin as a legal tender, in some way recognize that their own currency may not be good enough. Therefore, I see as potential candidates who will follow the example of El Salvador those countries that do not have their own national currencies, but only if it turns out that the thing works - of course all eyes are on El Salvador now.

Quote from: stompix on October 07, 2021, 11:49:17 AM

You pay exactly $4 to send $100, that's not 30% and not 40%.
If you would send $1000 the fee would drop to 0.7%.

I don't know where those numbers come from, but most obviously think that the WU is a very expensive way to transfer money - but you've shown many times that it's not. I can't say which money transfer services are used by the average El Salvador citizen living and working in the US, but we can already see examples that show significant savings when using a Chivo wallet.

Quote from: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/bitcoin-use-el-salvador-grows-setbacks-adopting-legal-tender-rcna2743

So far, 30 bitcoin ATMs to send remittances have been installed in Atlanta, Chicago, Houston and Los Angeles and Bukele says around $2 million is being sent via Chivo daily.

Juan Moz, a construction worker who has lived in the United States since 2005, recently chose Chivo to send remittances home to his family — a decision he said saves him up to $18 when compared to traditional money transfer services.

Nathrixxx

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After the El-Savador acceptance of Bitcoin as a legal tender, many countries have push a step forward toward the adoption by passing the legislative bill, i have a list of many countries who have taken such step with number of votes to predict the next El-Savador... Base on the highest votes it is predicted that Paraguay, Venezuela, Anguilla, Panama and India were the first five with highest votes on the proberbility of being the next to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender respectively.countries and regions that have passed legislation to enable cryptocurrency to be used as legal tender

Note that making Bitcoin a general acceptable legal tender by the whole word is a milestone journey on itself and has to a little vigorous challenges of ups and downs in a bid to eschew all forms of Cryptocurrency counter elements. But i can assure this can be achieved with time since the general populace of each country bids for the adoption and were involved actively in Cryptocurrency, in which adopted it will boost their economy, market cap, tax income, decrease poverty and promote independency, you can imagine how the population of Cryptocurrency users increases each day.

swogerino

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I think this is difficult to achieve in really well developed countries like the US and Germany for example.I intentionally took these two countries as an example because the US has the Federal Reserve which has a lot of power over the government and also in Germany there is ECB-European Central Bank which has also a lot of power over the Europe block.It will be very difficult for these specific countries to recognize Bitcoin as a legal tender based on what I said above.The good thing though is less developed countries are trying or want to try and follow the El Salvador example which is a great example to follow.

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El Salvador made Bitcoin a legal tender and they are already reporting massive profits from the current spike. The purchase price was $45-$48K and now Bitcoin is trading at $54K. If the other countries include Bitcoin in their forex reserves, then they will also benefit from it. But they are still attached to the fiat system and don't want to move away from it. I don't understand the point in creating forex reserves with treasury bonds from other countries. That serves no purpose and in fact it is advantageous only for the country that issues these treasury bonds.

Darker45

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It might just be a matter of time before another country will adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender. But, for me, countries don't have to actually give Bitcoin that status. I think it is enough that Bitcoin is legally accepted as an alternative currency which people and businesses have the freedom to use or not. As a legal tender, there is a connotation that business establishments are all required to accept it. Countries must have different set of rules and regulations pertaining to the legal tender status, of course, but to avoid complications it might be enough, at least for now, that Bitcoin is legally acknowledged as an alternative money.

Mahanton

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Cant still be sure because not all government would really be having the same mindset,will,views and perception on things which means decision would really vary according on what they had pictured out.

Decisions made isnt something that easy for those who had adopted or recognized bitcoin just like on what El salvador did.If all governments will capitulate then we know on whats the positive impact
but this thing seems to be an impossible or wont really be happening at all.They do have different views and being decentralized is something an issue that they will mainly put into the table.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

This, as I explained in another thread, makes it difficult for Bitcoin to be used as a day-to-day currency. In order to keep track of all transactions and pay taxes correctly you should rely on some App or some kind of software that keeps track of transactions and does the calculations for you. This means giving up your privacy and giving your purchase data to a centralized entity.

Holding BTC as disposable income for remittance payment, rather than as an HODL investment. $1,000 in bitcoin could be exchanged for $1,000 in stablecoin to avoid price swings. Then exchanged for BTC again for payment.

Governments only "capitulate" to the informed, motivated and organized public. If people become uninformed and unorganized enough for governments to get away with oppressing them. That often occurs.

For many years legalizing gambling was a common theme for how to boost local economies. Then legalizing and taxing marijuana became the common theme. 2021 we don't hear many proposals for legalizing gambling or weed. Everyone only talks about legalizing cryptocurrencies. This is what real progress looks like, am I right.

Finestream

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Quote from: hello_good_sir on October 07, 2021, 05:53:32 PM

I doubt it.

They will likely fight bitcoin until the end which is rather sad, but I don't see fiat winning the battle with grassroots support on bitcoin's side.

The restrictions, KYC/AML and such are all a result of the current governmental pushback. I don't see an end in sight for these things.

The government will never allow for a decentralized coin to be a legal tender so bitcoin will really find it hard to be one. And if it may happen in the future, i think a lot of struggles will come along the way including the strict restrictions made by the government. This will only be stopped if there is a sudden change on the view of the government towards bitcoin. I know it will certainly happen if the adoption for bitcoin in such big countries will start to increase.

hello_good_sir

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I doubt it.

They will likely fight bitcoin until the end which is rather sad, but I don't see fiat winning the battle with grassroots support on bitcoin's side.

The restrictions, KYC/AML and such are all a result of the current governmental pushback. I don't see an end in sight for these things.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

Brazil Set To Adopt Bitcoin As Its Legal Tender

Panama unveils bill to make Bitcoin legal tender

Ukraine could soon become the second country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

Ukraine is absolutely not looking at adopting it as legal tender, they recently adopted a law that would regulate cryptocurrency, and they specifically said that it can't be used as a payment method.

People here love to call out mainstream media for incorrectly covering Bitcoin, but Bitcoin media spin lies and misinformation all the time, usually just to create FUD or FOMO, whichever is more prelevant at the moment.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 07, 2021, 03:50:51 PM

It will take some time before governments finally agree to it. A lot of research is still needed to be done before nations can allow bitcoin to be used as a legal tender. I'm all in for that idea but it's pretty hard to achieve. El Salvador, for sure, made a lot of rigorous research and sifted through a lot its own legal framework before they granted the cryptocurrency its current legal status.

Also, most countries still have a pretty stable currency of their own, that the need to introduce a new legal tender is not really necessary and may even be detrimental to those countries' economies.

Also, I think these countries which are looking at the possibility of making bitcoin as legal tender will assess the situation of El Salvador at least after 6 months of implementation.
They will evaluate if that move is beneficial to the growth of the economy or not. Or are there positive things accompanied by this bold move?
So yes, it will take time for them to decide on this matter. As they will also check the viability of this decision to their actual situation in their country.
Because they may have other considerations in their financial system. They of course, need long talks with their Central Bank and how to implement it.

dothebeats

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It will take some time before governments finally agree to it. A lot of research is still needed to be done before nations can allow bitcoin to be used as a legal tender. I'm all in for that idea but it's pretty hard to achieve. El Salvador, for sure, made a lot of rigorous research and sifted through a lot its own legal framework before they granted the cryptocurrency its current legal status.

Also, most countries still have a pretty stable currency of their own, that the need to introduce a new legal tender is not really necessary and may even be detrimental to those countries' economies.

Viscore

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Quote from: avikz on October 07, 2021, 11:30:39 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

After El Salvador regulated Bitcoin as legal tender, other countries are tempted to follow in its footsteps:

A minor percentage of countries only! A dmall county like El-Salvador can't have heavy industries that can generate mass income and employment. So they had to rely on alternative things that help with their economy. So while bitcoin may be beneficial for El-Salvador, it may not yield same result in Brazil.

I still don't think majority of the government are serious enough regarding bitcoin. They are either ban it or strictly regulate it. Making bitcoin a legal tender is still a far fetched dream for majority of the governments.

This makes sense to me. For now, i really believe that only few number of countries have been considering taking bitcoin as a legal tender and majority still chooses their own monetary system to be their medium of exchange. This is because most of the governments still prefer fiat because it can be controlled by them and since bitcoin is decentralized, they can't give their full support on it. And considering the central banks focus on fiat so they will keep on printing paper money as much as they can. Big countries may have less chances to recognize bitcoin as a legal tender because majority of the citizens still chose fiat not because they are used to it, but they really believe its for a lifetime use cases despite of the high inflation associated in it.

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

I understand that the governments of the most economically powerful countries are going to be much more reticent than El Salvador and others who are seeing an opportunity.

On the one hand, if they make it legal to tender, they will lose money to be collected in direct taxes, and on the other hand they will lose at least part of the power they have with the massive printing of currency.

That is why I wonder if in the future, more and more countries will pass legislation that considers Bitcoin legal to tender and in the end the more economically powerful countries will have to capitulate and do the same.

What do you think?

I could see it happening but I do not see those governments that are at the very top relinquishing that power without a fight, I really think that in order for that to happen we are going to have to see a massive crisis caused by their money printing policies all over the world, the massive adoption by the people in order to protect themselves from those effects, the banning of bitcoin in a weak attempt to protect their fiat currencies and finally the failure of those policies for them to finally understand that making bitcoin legal tender is the only choice they have left.

stompix

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Quote from: nullama on October 06, 2021, 11:24:09 PM

You can add Tonga to that list
source: https://stockhead.com.au/cryptocurrency/tonga-might-consider-bitcoin-as-legal-tender-if-laser-focused-mp-gets-his-way/

This is the key:

Quote

“To get those remittances to Tonga, Western Union takes a 30 per cent bite out of them, on average. It can be 50 per cent. In El Salvador, it’s closer to 50 per cent. So, our GDP in 2020 was $US510 million, 40 per cent of that is just over $US200 million so 30 per cent of that or $US60 million is fees alone to Western Union.”

Again with these stupid numbers?
Here is an actual transfer from WU:

You pay exactly $4 to send $100, that's not 30% and not 40%.
If you would send $1000 the fee would drop to 0.7%.

avikz

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Quote from: Poker Player on October 06, 2021, 10:19:47 PM

After El Salvador regulated Bitcoin as legal tender, other countries are tempted to follow in its footsteps:

A minor percentage of countries only! A dmall county like El-Salvador can't have heavy industries that can generate mass income and employment. So they had to rely on alternative things that help with their economy. So while bitcoin may be beneficial for El-Salvador, it may not yield same result in Brazil.

I still don't think majority of the government are serious enough regarding bitcoin. They are either ban it or strictly regulate it. Making bitcoin a legal tender is still a far fetched dream for majority of the governments.

Topic: Will governments capitulate and finally recognize Bitcoin as a legal tender? - page 3. (Read 444 times)