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Topic: Will the Stealth BIP (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal) ever be done? - page 2. (Read 7068 times)

legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3074
Correct me if im wrong,but doesn't giving a master public key have the same result? For example, in Electrum, you give someone your master public key so they can pay you, creating a brand new, 1-time only address

The difference is: with a master public key, the sender can use it to figure out who else paid money to that address, past and future. With stealth addresses, the sender knows only the address they sent to (or maybe not even that... but you could work it out in any case by looking at which block it was confirmed into and how much the transaction was for)

How could the sender figure out who else paid money on that master public key if you created it only for him? The idea would be creating a different mpubkey for each individual.
Of course stealth addresses sound really cool and I hope it gets implemented. Right now the anonymity features of BTC are pretty poor and Gmaxwell seems to agree on this too.

I was comparing xpub keys and stealth keys when you make either type publicly available, there's a reason to do that for some use cases (e.g. accountability for a charity) and in others to use stealth keys (I don't like that term for them really, doesn't really explain what they do too well). It would be nice if the privacy was better by default, it seems we could get some of the way there on the proposed confidential chain.
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1004
Correct me if im wrong,but doesn't giving a master public key have the same result? For example, in Electrum, you give someone your master public key so they can pay you, creating a brand new, 1-time only address

The difference is: with a master public key, the sender can use it to figure out who else paid money to that address, past and future. With stealth addresses, the sender knows only the address they sent to (or maybe not even that... but you could work it out in any case by looking at which block it was confirmed into and how much the transaction was for)

How could the sender figure out who else paid money on that master public key if you created it only for him? The idea would be creating a different mpubkey for each individual.
Of course stealth addresses sound really cool and I hope it gets implemented. Right now the anonymity features of BTC are pretty poor and Gmaxwell seems to agree on this too.
legendary
Activity: 1066
Merit: 1050
Khazad ai-menu!
Don't several wallets implement stealth addresses already? 
Why do you want this github BIP?  Just go do what you need to already. 

There are some wallets that incorporate stealth address concept to different degrees, the problem comes when there isn't support throughout the whole system, and it's not just a matter in core, but the absence of a BIP also affects other wallet developers such as the Electrum folk as originally mentioned in one of the links in my post which kicked off this thread. 

What needs to be done, if I'm hearing this correctly from Peter Todd's perspective, is get him some financial (bitcoin) support for stealth BIP (63) in order for something to be done on it.

Just waiting for a bitcoin address to be published from him specific for that here.

Good point, some documentation can't hurt.

You could offer a reward for a nicely written RFC. 
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 251
ABISprotocol on Gist
Don't several wallets implement stealth addresses already? 
Why do you want this github BIP?  Just go do what you need to already. 

There are some wallets that incorporate stealth address concept to different degrees, the problem comes when there isn't support throughout the whole system, and it's not just a matter in core, but the absence of a BIP also affects other wallet developers such as the Electrum folk as originally mentioned in one of the links in my post which kicked off this thread. 

What needs to be done, if I'm hearing this correctly from Peter Todd's perspective, is get him some financial (bitcoin) support for stealth BIP (63) in order for something to be done on it.

Just waiting for a bitcoin address to be published from him specific for that here.
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 251
ABISprotocol on Gist
Long story short, right now I think my time is better spent focusing on more fundemental issues with Bitcoin like scalability.

I've also got no-one interested in funding stealth address development right now; I do need to pay rent!

Peter,

If you publish here a bitcoin address that is specific to funding the stealth BIP (# 63 as currently shown at https://github.com/bitcoin/bips) then I, and others here who support that, will publish that address and I suspect, that you will receive funds at that address, as people will be happy to donate (I certainly will contribute to it.)  The effect of this will be amplified if you mention it on one of your social feed (twitter or wherever else).

-ABISprotocol

Edit:  There are at least a few other people so far who have said in this discussion thread that they'd donate as well - you can see their comments here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11572012
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 251
ABISprotocol on Gist
When I saw the Bip number 63... I thought it was a stronger encryption. Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Could the reason be, that 3rd party mixers and built in mixer features within wallet providers void the need for such upgrades?  Or do you think it would be better to implement improved privacy on the protocol levels?

I am ALL for more privacy and would welcome ANY methods to achieve these goals. {Why do the government or a stalker need to know, how I spend my money?}

Thanks for posting this.  Grin 

The short answer is no, 3rd party mixers (such as a mixer plugin which presents bitcoin mixing as a feature, and could be "dropped into" Electrum because the feature provided is not mainline in Electrum, as example) don't provide a better level of privacy than what could be provided if stealth address were to be directly supported in the protocol.  

Here I am suggesting that this stealth BIP (BIP 63) be started, it all starts in the draft stage.
There are different kinds of BIPs.

     Standards Track BIPs - Changes to the network protocol, block or transaction validation, or anything affecting interoperability.
    Informational BIPs - Design issues, general guidelines. This type of BIP is NOT for proposing new features and do not represent community consensus
    Process BIPs - Describes or proposes a change in process. Similar to Standards BIPs but apply outside the Bitcoin protocol.

I don't know what kind of BIP this would end up being, but I am kind of assuming it might end up being a Process BIP, but again, I don't really know.  I'm assuming that how it would be tracked and categorized would depend on Greg Maxwell and Peter Todd assuming this moves forward...
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1003
What does it do, and how exactly will this make my transactions more secure or more private?

Hello,

There is a summary response above which I hope covers this, but if you wanted something else, there is a brief but useful description here by some folks who have been developing stealth.js for darkwallet:
https://github.com/darkwallet/stealth.js/blob/master/README.md
That link is actually very helpful with understanding the mechanics of stealth addresses. Thanks.
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 251
ABISprotocol on Gist
What does it do, and how exactly will this make my transactions more secure or more private?

Hello,

There is a summary response above which I hope covers this, but if you wanted something else, there is a brief but useful description here by some folks who have been developing stealth.js for darkwallet:
https://github.com/darkwallet/stealth.js/blob/master/README.md
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1034
Long story short, right now I think my time is better spent focusing on more fundemental issues with Bitcoin like scalability.

I've also got no-one interested in funding stealth address development right now; I do need to pay rent!

Are there a few developers with some free time that just need some funds to pay the bills to finish this? If so, please setup a lighthouse fundraiser and I will gladly contribute and help promote it.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1115
Long story short, right now I think my time is better spent focusing on more fundemental issues with Bitcoin like scalability.

I've also got no-one interested in funding stealth address development right now; I do need to pay rent!

I'll chip in some bits!
legendary
Activity: 1066
Merit: 1050
Khazad ai-menu!
Don't several wallets implement stealth addresses already? 
Why do you want this github BIP?  Just go do what you need to already. 
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1150
Long story short, right now I think my time is better spent focusing on more fundemental issues with Bitcoin like scalability.

I've also got no-one interested in funding stealth address development right now; I do need to pay rent!
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 2154
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?
Moved to dev and tech. Bitcoin discussion was an alright place for the thread to be, but you are likely to get better discussion in this section.
hero member
Activity: 821
Merit: 1000
Whilst this does not help the bitcoin implementation ... Shadow (see sig) implemented dual key (scan and spent key) stealth address in its code base for those that want to have a play with it.
Lots of great benefits for improving once privacy.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3074
Correct me if im wrong,but doesn't giving a master public key have the same result? For example, in Electrum, you give someone your master public key so they can pay you, creating a brand new, 1-time only address

The difference is: with a master public key, the sender can use it to figure out who else paid money to that address, past and future. With stealth addresses, the sender knows only the address they sent to (or maybe not even that... but you could work it out in any case by looking at which block it was confirmed into and how much the transaction was for)
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1004
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1073
When I saw the Bip number 63... I thought it was a stronger encryption. Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Could the reason be, that 3rd party mixers and built in mixer features within wallet providers void the need for such upgrades?  Or do you think it would be better to implement improved privacy on the protocol levels?

I am ALL for more privacy and would welcome ANY methods to achieve these goals. {Why do the government or a stalker need to know, how I spend my money?}

Thanks for posting this.  Grin 
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 251
ABISprotocol on Gist
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1003
What does it do, and how exactly will this make my transactions more secure or more private?
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