Topic: Will this cause France to get into Bitcoin - 75% Tax on Rich - page 2. (Read 5444 times)

A 75% tax rate will do much more harm than good. Sadly most politicians have a hard time grasping economics 101.

+1. It is not easy. If you don't put in tons of hours for years, you can forget about it..

The socialists always want to test how far they can push things with force.  If you can't do it in a free, voluntary manner, perhaps one will see eventually when it is done TO them..

Sort of like in "Atlas Shrugged".

All I know, as a successful entrepreneur, is the more I work and give value to the world the more I am worth and the more money I make.

Indeed, the world is better off for my innovative efforts.

I am already taxed 40%.  Tax me 75% and I am outta here after laying off my employees and shutting down the business.

When thousands upon thousands of overtaxed people quit their businesses and services, you will see widespread unemployment and poverty like you wouldn't believe.

Not rocket science my friends.  Too many people are jealous that they too cannot come up with and launch ideas that other people value enough to pay good money for.  So the solution they lobby for is to tax those "rich" people because after all it is soooo unfair that someone can earn more than someone else.

PS - if school teachers and policemen want to earn more money all they have to do is start their own businesses if they think that is so easy LOL

Stop using government guns to force your idea of economic fairness onto others.  Isn't that what Bitcoin is all about?

Source that teachers in France work 10 hours/week please?

mskryxz thanks for sharing the news about the cruelty of France government on civilians by enhancing the tax. Yes for sure I guess salary in bitcoins could protect the salaried person otherwise taxes will eat up all the hard earned money. Surely bitcoin could today safeguard the civilians not only of France but everywhere. 

Let's not group the school teachers with police and scientists. The cops and the researchers work hard, so we can't blame them. The teachers on the other hand, have proliferated with the support from their unions. They work for less than 10 hours a week, and carry almost four times the salary which an average council worker (who works for 60 h / week) receives. And what do they do? They just brainwash the students with their political messages. No one is going to disagree if I claim that the quality of teaching has gone down the drain for the last few decades or so.

Sure, who would work eighty hours a week, and innovate for salaries less than 100k a year?
Except you know, all researchers.

Who would take risk for low salaries?
Except you know, all policemen.

Tin foil hat time, eh.


Let's just dispense right now with the notion that how much money you make is proportional to personal effort. That is an insult to school teachers, police, scientists - well, pretty much anyone who earns a wage for services.

That is not to say that capitalism isn't the best engine of economic growth available, just that it has little to do with fairness. The idea that everyone could be a fantastically wealthy hedge fund manager if they just worked hard enough is patently false, but that's the implication that is made when you equate wealth with hard work. Certainly it's easier to be wealthy if you work hard, but then again that applies to any goal in life.

That said, looks like this French law is temporary - 2 years. I suppose they figure that's short enough to prevent companies from relocating.

Spot on.

When the masses of people discover they can vote themselves other peoples money then the game is over - all you hear is a giant swirling rushing sound as the economy goes down the toilet.

Many of you here on this forum are mixing up banksters with hard working entrepreneurs (the people who start small and medium sized successful businesses that more often than not employ you, pay the majority of taxes, etc).

Kill the economic incentive and these people have no reason what-so-ever to take risks, work eighty hours a week, and innovate.  They will also have absolutely no reason to keep you employed.  But, of course, you can always become a parasite on the taxpayers as is the current method in favor by millions of people who choose not to work for a living.

Yes, I did.  And do you know what happened?  All those politicians who voted for those progressive increases throughout the years eventually got voted out (took about 10-15 years) of office and the tax rates become lower and lower until the mid 90's and early 2000's.  The other thing to remember, inflation adjusted $200,000 in 1943 is ~$2.5MM in today's levels.  The amount of higher earners in the 40-50's was a lot lower than today for various reasons. 

More power to you if you want to stay and pay that much tax in France if and when you earn more than $1MM.  It's a relatively free world out there compared to most times in history.  We are free to stay in one country or move to another.

Thanks for posting!

I find it so annoying that all the people foaming at the mouth about this tax are those who will never be affected by it. Armchair libertarians on this forum, by reading some of those posts.

I'm also a reasonably high earner here in the Netherlands, and I am very happy paying the high income tax here, because the government in general provides fantastic infrastructure and a safe, secure society. Sure there are problems here but in general I feel like my tax euros go to good use.

There are definitely taxes I do oppose here -- there's a nasty double taxation scheme on savings and assets worth more than 21k, where you pay a 30% tax on a nominal "assumed" appreciation of 4% -- so it's only 1.2%, but that's slapped on all of my savings above 21k euros, and on the value of my house every year if I own it. Now that is bullshit.

yeah, people still need/want to make money.. even if tax rates are ludicrously high. historically speaking, its impact hasn't been as bad as most republicans/rich people say. still though, 75% is way too damn high. rich people shouldn't be footing that much of the bill. all i expect is something fair (ie less than 50% progressive tax).

Everybody here is saying that a 75% tax is a barrier to entrepreneurship and will make most rich people flee.

Did you know that the federal income tax rate in the US was 91% on income over $200,000 (approx. $2.5 million in today's dollars) between 1946 and 1962?
Did it cause a great exile of brains and innovators?

I'm French, there's a good chance I will make more than 1 million a year in a few years, but I still welcome this 75% tax. Millionaires build their fortune on the shoulder of many people who implement their ideas, and thanks to a functioning government and a safe environment, which is payed for by taxes.
Also it's not as bad as it seems. If you earn $1'000'001, only the $1 dollar above 1 million is taxed at 75%. Plus, it is in fact a 50% tax which when social security charges are added reaches 75%

i don't like it when people say that rich people are hardworking so they are rich. that may be the case, but they could be just as lazy as a middle class employee. that's how the economic system works really. if you have the right friends, they can help you get out on top and screw other people over.. with very little effort or "hard work."

and what does hard work mean if what they are doing is shit for the rest of the world? what about those bankers who "work really hard" to make money for themselves, and fuck everyone else over in the process?

You could say "gifted", "smart" or some other junk if you want to justify your priviledge to yourself... But "hardworking"? Come on... people don't make millions by working hard. There are a lot of people, working crazy hours and they don't make a living wage. Being rich is all about being at the right place at right time and using that opportunity the right way, its about knowing the right people and knowing the right way of doing business. For short it's about opportunity, judgement and initiative. Has nothing to do with hard working.

I myself, made the most money in my life, when I was being a lazy bugger.

I mean we are at the bitcoin forum after all, and quite possibly you are an early adopter...

Wait... was it an irony?

instead of taxing people up the ass hole, they should just start learning how to more efficiently use/allocate their money. the problem is that politicians like to give free money and waste money (so their friends who are businessmen gain large profits).

if politicians weren't politicians, a cap to the tax rate at half of 75% would be more than enough.

The root cause is that politicians are very generous with other people's money.  The theft is so common that many people justify it as normal and necessary.

It is not just the 75% that is outrageous.  It is the very idea of a "progressive" tax.

A tax of 10% across the board would automatically take more money from people with a higher income than those with a lower income.  That is what "per cent" means.  But they invented the concept of taking a higher percentage from people with higher income.  And almost no one objected.  And this is where it leads.  

But it is a good thing for Bitcoin.

This 75% penalty tax is above and beyond all existings taxes.   So france isn't raising the income tax to 75% (which would be insane as it is) the employee and employer still pays all his normal taxes (income tax is >45%, social taxes >9%, VAT >19%) PLUS on top of that the employer now pays an additional 75% penalty tax in wages over 1M EUR.  It is >100% total taxation (on the portion above 1M EUR) as insane as that sounds, and no employer is going to pay more in taxes then they pay their employee so they will just cut wages to the 1M "cap" and offer other non salary compensation (stock options, increased benefits, etc).  The irony is that not only will the govt not get the 75% in super taxes they will lose all the taxes on employee incomes that have been cut.

That isn't to say CA isn't insane.  Don't forget CA has a 8.5% sales tax on top of the income tax.  Also don't forget ObamaCare added a 3.8% additional tax on those making >$250K annually starting in 2014. Similar to France (although well ambitious) this isn't raising the tax bracket by 3.8% it is a new separate tax class on top of all the existing taxes.  So yeah CA is pushing 60% to 70% in total taxation easy these days.  It is one reason why other tech hubs like Austin have seen so many CA immigrants.

@ gannicus,

Thanks for the cite. 

I think we might just be talking past each other.

1) I 100% agree no company will pay it thus it simply acts as a defacto cap on wages.

2) I agreed that it might be on the portion over 1M I never refuted your claim just said the articles was unclear and wondered if someone had a clearer example.  With your cite I agree 100% it is a flat 75% tax on the portion over 1M.   Simple solution.  Nobody (or no significant numbers) will get paid over 1M in salary (they will just take more deffered compensation) and the tax revenue will be roughly nothing.  75% of nothing is nothing.

3) It still isn't an income tax.  My point was that this isn't like raising the income tax bracket to 75% this is IN ADDITION to the employees income tax.  So hypothetically if the tax rate in the >1M EUR bracket was >25% (and I have to guess with France it is more like 50%+) that means the tax between both the employee and employer on the portion above 1M EUR is more than 100%.  That is how insane this is.   Merely raising the income tax bracket to 75% would be bad enough this is a scheme which results in more than 100% taxation.  Utterly asinine.  I think I was unclear but that was my point on saying it isn't an income tax.