Will this cause France to get into Bitcoin - 75% Tax on Rich

gurcani

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Quote from: davedx on January 02, 2014, 03:41:37 PM

I don't think there would be very good roads without government. Do you think individual companies are capable of organising nationwide infrastructure projects?

It actually is the private companies that build the roads in most countries. Government collects the taxes and outsource the actual job of building.

but we are talking about organizing... In the sense of figuring out which community needs what and supplying it at the national (or international) level.

Somehow I tend to think that google would do that better than U.S. department of transportation if you let them make money off of it.

The hard question is how to do this in a distributed fashion. I am sure it is doable, but you probably need to discover something as revolutionary as bitcoin in order to facilitate people working towards a defined goal in a distributed but coherent way in real life.

davedx

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Quote from: ErisDiscordia on January 02, 2014, 05:15:41 AM

Quote from: beetcoin on January 02, 2014, 01:45:11 AM

Quote from: gurcani on January 01, 2014, 09:32:25 PM

Don't get me wrong, the government provides me nothing that I value.

I think that business, government and religion is part of the same meta structure that oppress people. Business pays the politicians, and the clergy, and each of these provide essential services to one another.

France is a strange country where, every now and then, people mess things up.

do you value parks and roads?

Do you think there would be no parks or roads without government?

I don't think there would be very good roads without government. Do you think individual companies are capable of organising nationwide infrastructure projects?

davedx

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 02, 2014, 04:41:31 AM

Quote from: davedx on January 02, 2014, 03:07:09 AM

Source please.

http://www.thejournal.ie/french-teachers-strike-five-day-week-764624-Jan2013/

French teachers are required to teach for a maximum of 3 periods (40 mins each) per day. 2 hours per day = 10 h / week.

It does not say that in the article, does it? It talks about a 4 day week, that's all. Do you have an actual source, or is this just something you heard in a pub?

gurcani

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Quote from: beetcoin on January 02, 2014, 01:45:11 AM

do you value parks and roads?

I do.

I was at the gezi park, which the government wanted to destroy, to build a shopping mall. The people defended it with their lives... I value such parks.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/occupy-taksim-222723

I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouVxXkwExHw

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The Brittish government has already told the French high earners to move there. The French government was annoyed. I loved it.

France is one of the worst countries in the world to live if you're anything above mediocre.

Income tax in UK isn't that much low either. For the last two decades or so, a lot of ethnic minorities from France, especially the Arabs have been relocating to UK for professional reasons. On the other hand, there is also a migration of white British families to France, as the latter offers better work to family life equilibrium.

ucerpucerp

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 30, 2013, 08:32:35 PM

Weird the tax isn't an income tax, it is a penalty tax on the companies which pay its employees "too much". ~~The company pays a 75% tax on the salaries which exceed 1M EUR per year. So company pays you 1M EUR, company coughs up 750K EUR to the government.~~ Correction: The tax is on the employer for 75% of the wages ABOVE 1M EUR so it is in effect a wage cap. Instead of the govt saying "wages over 1M annually are illegal" they just made it asininely expensive to pay wages that high so ... companies won't.

Company cuts your salary to 1,000,000 EUR or less, and the company pays no tax (well no extra millionaire taxes). I have a feeling many companies will simply cut salaries which are over the 1M "cap" and offer some form of deferred compensation.

The Brittish government has already told the French high earners to move there. The French government was annoyed. I loved it.

France is one of the worst countries in the world to live if you're anything above mediocre.

Actually, the number of relocations from France to UK didn't increase for 1 year... As it has been said, this tax is only a salary one. There are many ways to avoid it.

ErisDiscordia

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Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos

Quote from: beetcoin on January 02, 2014, 01:45:11 AM

Quote from: gurcani on January 01, 2014, 09:32:25 PM

Don't get me wrong, the government provides me nothing that I value.

I think that business, government and religion is part of the same meta structure that oppress people. Business pays the politicians, and the clergy, and each of these provide essential services to one another.

France is a strange country where, every now and then, people mess things up.

do you value parks and roads?

Do you think there would be no parks or roads without government?

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: davedx on January 02, 2014, 03:07:09 AM

Source please.

http://www.thejournal.ie/french-teachers-strike-five-day-week-764624-Jan2013/

French teachers are required to teach for a maximum of 3 periods (40 mins each) per day. 2 hours per day = 10 h / week.

davedx

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 02, 2014, 02:32:24 AM

Quote from: davedx on January 01, 2014, 11:55:17 AM

Source that teachers in France work 10 hours/week please?

In most of the EU nations teachers work far less than 10 hours a week. And I don't think that the situation will be much different in France.

Source please.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: davedx on January 01, 2014, 11:55:17 AM

Source that teachers in France work 10 hours/week please?

In most of the EU nations teachers work far less than 10 hours a week. And I don't think that the situation will be much different in France.

beetcoin

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Quote from: gurcani on January 01, 2014, 09:32:25 PM

Don't get me wrong, the government provides me nothing that I value.

I think that business, government and religion is part of the same meta structure that oppress people. Business pays the politicians, and the clergy, and each of these provide essential services to one another.

France is a strange country where, every now and then, people mess things up.

do you value parks and roads?

Lethn

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Quote from: gurcani on January 01, 2014, 09:27:13 PM

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on January 01, 2014, 04:45:57 PM

PS - if school teachers and policemen want to earn more money all they have to do is start their own businesses if they think that is so easy LOL

and what would happen if all the police and the school teachers turned to businessmen/women? You as a businessmen would have no secuity and no skilled labor to run your business, no?

I enjoy these arguments given by people who attack the idea of no taxes but where's your actual proof that everything is going to be a disaster if we don't tax people for everything they have?

gurcani

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Don't get me wrong, the government provides me nothing that I value.

I think that business, government and religion is part of the same meta structure that oppress people. Business pays the politicians, and the clergy, and each of these provide essential services to one another.

France is a strange country where, every now and then, people mess things up.

gurcani

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Activity: 167

Merit: 100

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on January 01, 2014, 04:45:57 PM

PS - if school teachers and policemen want to earn more money all they have to do is start their own businesses if they think that is so easy LOL

and what would happen if all the police and the school teachers turned to businessmen/women? You as a businessmen would have no secuity and no skilled labor to run your business, no?

Lethn

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You know, I almost want the economy to collapse regardless of ridiculous tax hikes like this just so that people realise what the real problem is here, fucking crowd panderers.

Quote

I find it so annoying that all the people foaming at the mouth about this tax are those who will never be affected by it. Armchair libertarians on this forum, by reading some of those posts.

You're right! Because we all trade in Bitcoin we don't have to suffer them! HAH! Cheesy

drgyoza

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Quote from: davedx on January 01, 2014, 05:07:16 AM

Quote from: Findus on January 01, 2014, 02:37:25 AM

Everybody here is saying that a 75% tax is a barrier to entrepreneurship and will make most rich people flee.

Did you know that the federal income tax rate in the US was 91% on income over $200,000 (approx. $2.5 million in today's dollars) between 1946 and 1962?
Did it cause a great exile of brains and innovators?

I'm French, there's a good chance I will make more than 1 million a year in a few years, but I still welcome this 75% tax. Millionaires build their fortune on the shoulder of many people who implement their ideas, and thanks to a functioning government and a safe environment, which is payed for by taxes.
Also it's not as bad as it seems. If you earn $1'000'001, only the $1 dollar above 1 million is taxed at 70%. Plus, it is in fact a 50% tax which when social security charges are added reaches 75%

Thanks for posting!

I find it so annoying that all the people foaming at the mouth about this tax are those who will never be affected by it. Armchair libertarians on this forum, by reading some of those posts.

I'm also a reasonably high earner here in the Netherlands, and I am very happy paying the high income tax here, because the government in general provides fantastic infrastructure and a safe, secure society. Sure there are problems here but in general I feel like my tax euros go to good use.

There are definitely taxes I do oppose here -- there's a nasty double taxation scheme on savings and assets worth more than 21k, where you pay a 30% tax on a nominal "assumed" appreciation of 4% -- so it's only 1.2%, but that's slapped on all of my savings above 21k euros, and on the value of my house every year if I own it. Now that is bullshit.

You didn't mentioned the fact that this tax will be applied ONLY FOR TWO YEARS. The French elite concerned by the tax represent a few people, who usually do not show appetite for innovations like bitcoin. I don't imagine them turning the 25% left into btc just to make sure. What could have a real impact on btc price is a 10% taxation on savings as advised by the IMF - France seems to be in sights but also other European countries.

Don007

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Live like there is no tomorrow!

I think some of the might get into Bitcoin indeed, but even more will move out of France. By moving out of the country they won't help the economy anymore, so this decision has negative effects.

I think it's okay to tax the most rich people more than poor people (absolute, but also relative), but you shouldn't harm them. 75%... that's way too much. Being an entrepreneur in the Netherlands you have to pay 52% tax in the highest "tax stage" (if you earn more than €56,000.00 income per year).

skivrmt

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Quote from: CompNsci on January 01, 2014, 06:38:36 PM

Quote from: Johnny Bitcoinseed on December 31, 2013, 12:34:21 AM

France is shooting itself in the foot, may as well be shooting itself in the head. When these key people in the economy decide to either leave France or just plain stop doing what they do the French economy will slide ever more quickly into the gutter.

They never learn, do they?

Sort of like in "Atlas Shrugged".

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to quote Atlas Shrugged or at least reference it. Many of the worlds countries are moving towards an Atlas Shrugged scenario. It still many be many years off, but I honestly think it's happening around the world, and to some extent in the US.

I wonder what Rand would say about something like Bitcoin? I personally feel she would love it that it crosses international boundaries and is away from government regulation. Her modernized version of repaying everyone owed in gold

CompNsci

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Quote from: beetcoin on January 01, 2014, 06:52:05 PM

history, as stated prior, does not support your claim. i don't know how it's going to end up in france, but high taxes historically have not hindered the economy.

It strikes me as rather difficult to prove such a claim or its contrary on a historical basis with any degree of certainty. There are a lot of other confounding factors.

beetcoin

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Quote from: allthingsluxury on January 01, 2014, 06:50:29 PM

A 75% tax rate will do much more harm than good. Sadly most politicians have a hard time grasping economics 101.

history, as stated prior, does not support your claim. i don't know how it's going to end up in france, but high taxes historically have not hindered the economy.

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