Wisdom in laying down | Bitcointalksearch.org

paxmao

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Quote from: doomloop on November 18, 2021, 05:03:04 PM

Quote from: Gozie51 on November 17, 2021, 05:57:52 AM

Usually the Communist system do not allow for mass protest and public gatherings to discuss the government policy or to work against it. The government decision is regarded as good for the people and that is why you have lesser revolts in such continent unlike you see in capitalist economies. Except if the communist government of the Chinese begin to reduce the grip they have on the citizen and start listening. You have not wondered why the series of ban news on cryptocurrency from China leading the crusade against cryptocurrency while some countries have started to adopt bitcoin as payment system already.

I remember the last "mass protest" in china, and we all know how it ended. Tiananmen Square protests resulted with as much as 10k dead by some calculations, however their "official" numbers are 300, it depends if you want to believe to the government telling how many of its people they claim to kill... that alone is just disgusting.

So, I doubt that underpaid or underemployed nation could do absolutely nothing about it at all, they will starve the death like they did back in the day and that's all they could do, literally die because of management and have to accept that fact because otherwise instead of starving to death they will be shot to death. This is why I believe China will not grow as much as people imagine they would, everyone thinks they will become world power but I doubt that they will become anything remotely like that at all.

It is not as much about the underemployment of the low wages, the movement speaks more of a number of reasons that lead them to believe that it may be worth to reduce the speed of their lives. Among other, it is the party's pressure to be "model citizens" and the level of surveillance that is perceived around backing things such as brand bans or initiatives that are favoured by the government. I think that this is an indicator that true harmony, peace and prosperity cannot be imposed.

worldofcoins

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 17, 2021, 10:10:33 AM

Absolutely there is no freedom of speech and lot of researchers found that China is trying to track the whole world silently then how do they let their own people to miss that out and literally they are living under dictatorship so they have no other option than showing in this way but its not going to change anything since China never cared about the people because they just see it as commodity which is abundant there.

These communist parties can crush down people's homes without their permission then what do you think disallowing their citizens from using it?

I don't think there's going to be a time in China where their citizens will have free will, which is a lie and strong ones impose their will on the weak ones.

doomloop

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Quote from: Gozie51 on November 17, 2021, 05:57:52 AM

Usually the Communist system do not allow for mass protest and public gatherings to discuss the government policy or to work against it. The government decision is regarded as good for the people and that is why you have lesser revolts in such continent unlike you see in capitalist economies. Except if the communist government of the Chinese begin to reduce the grip they have on the citizen and start listening. You have not wondered why the series of ban news on cryptocurrency from China leading the crusade against cryptocurrency while some countries have started to adopt bitcoin as payment system already.

I remember the last "mass protest" in china, and we all know how it ended. Tiananmen Square protests resulted with as much as 10k dead by some calculations, however their "official" numbers are 300, it depends if you want to believe to the government telling how many of its people they claim to kill... that alone is just disgusting.

So, I doubt that underpaid or underemployed nation could do absolutely nothing about it at all, they will starve the death like they did back in the day and that's all they could do, literally die because of management and have to accept that fact because otherwise instead of starving to death they will be shot to death. This is why I believe China will not grow as much as people imagine they would, everyone thinks they will become world power but I doubt that they will become anything remotely like that at all.

Silberman

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 17, 2021, 10:10:33 AM

Absolutely there is no freedom of speech and lot of researchers found that China is trying to track the whole world silently then how do they let their own people to miss that out and literally they are living under dictatorship so they have no other option than showing in this way but its not going to change anything since China never cared about the people because they just see it as commodity which is abundant there.

I do not think that most people that are interested on this actually want to change anything, they are seeing there is no hope for them, the possibility of a change at China is very low as the communist party has complete control over almost all the aspects of the lives of their citizens, so since there is no hope for improvement or change then they are doing the only logical thing left to do, which is to disengage all what they can from a society which offers them nothing.

Zanab247

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Despite China are good in manufacturing things, does not mean their centralized currency will take the position of decentralized currency in the world. Base on the wisdom of creating many things in the country and is working for them, make them think their centralized currency will be more valuable than bitcoin in the world. Now that their economy is no longer flowing well as before when they make bitcoin legalized in all different communities and where many students and graduate were using it to sustain their selves and family in the country.
Since they banned bitcoin in their country , many of their youths are finding it difficult to get a good job that will help them to feed well and their families.

ChiBitCTy

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China taking things too far? Noo. Shaking my head. I am just going to be honest, I fucking HATE China. I am so sick and tired of their backwards ass ways. I understand some cultures not modernizing in certain things but the way they treat their humans and the way they treat animals really sickens me. This new thing where they are killing peoples pets who might have the corona virus is absolutely sickening. Fuck that commy nation.

jrrsparkles

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Absolutely there is no freedom of speech and lot of researchers found that China is trying to track the whole world silently then how do they let their own people to miss that out and literally they are living under dictatorship so they have no other option than showing in this way but its not going to change anything since China never cared about the people because they just see it as commodity which is abundant there.

Gozie51

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Quote from: Coyster on November 10, 2021, 05:47:25 PM

I don't know the condition in China, but if the people feel they are somewhat underemployed/underpayed, then I think the government should do something about that cause all the blame still falls back to them, it's obviously the duty of the government to improve the condition of workers in their country, but since the Chinese government is a dictatorial one, I don't know if they will be moved by this.

Usually the Communist system do not allow for mass protest and public gatherings to discuss the government policy or to work against it. The government decision is regarded as good for the people and that is why you have lesser revolts in such continent unlike you see in capitalist economies. Except if the communist government of the Chinese begin to reduce the grip they have on the citizen and start listening. You have not wondered why the series of ban news on cryptocurrency from China leading the crusade against cryptocurrency while some countries have started to adopt bitcoin as payment system already.

Snappycoco

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Quote from: paxmao on November 09, 2021, 06:52:43 AM

This is about the Tang Ping movement in China and the effects of motivation in the economy. China, with their tracking of "good citizens" behaviour, is including things like boycotts to certain brands or certain uses of games and technology. The Tang Ping document means literally "lay down", and is a call to reject the massive pressure from the state, low wages and poor conditions.

China may be taking it too far.

This is what to expect with a communist country. No freedom in everything and all your moves should be in accordance with their ideology. Anything that goes against them would be punished accordingly even if its just a simple misconduct. Even the great Jack Ma suffers from this by just telling the obvious problem thats happening in their economy. I hope that their citizens would repel this communist ideology.

Silberman

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Quote from: Darker45 on November 10, 2021, 11:00:33 PM

I have already thought about this possibility of the younger Chinese generation eventually going up against the way their society works.

When their parents and grandparents, their productivity in particular, were used as commodities by the country decades ago, it was more or less all right, because poverty was rampant. There was a very huge labor force, much of which untapped. When the country was selling them cheap, it was better for the people than nothing.

After several decades, when the massive cheap labor selling as well as the one-child policy in the '70s have bear fruits, the economic condition of many Chinese families have significantly improved. Thus, the younger generation has already grown up under different circumstances. They're already living the better life. Therefore, they are not anymore the kind of people the state could compel to work long tiring hours with dirt cheap compensation.

This younger generation is now demanding. Such is probably one of the reasons why labor in China is not as cheap, working conditions not as poor, and so on. If the state will insist on the old ways of doing things, it will surely backfire. This is it.

The truth is this is happening all over the world and not only in a communist country like China, at Japan the government is worried their young population is not working as hard as their parents and they are just working as much as necessary and they are blaming the young because of this.

However they seem to forget that Japan is one if not the most indebted country around the world in terms of its GDP ratio, and that back then a person could expect to work for the same company during all their life, something that is not true anymore, so the young have adjusted their behavior and somehow this surprises governments around the world that thought they could take away almost all the perks out of most jobs and still have a population that worked to their full capacity.

pooya87

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Quote from: Hydrogen on November 10, 2021, 06:40:24 PM

Today, the game may have changed. The united states is normally credited with having the most advanced, largest and most powerful military in the world. But seems unable to do anything effectively with it.

US has the largest and most expensive stuff not the best or most advanced. In fact a lot of US equipment are already behind the leading technologies such as the F35 planes that are already at least 2 steps behind the defense systems.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 10, 2021, 08:40:52 PM

Hell yes they're underpaid--why do you think the US outsourced all of its manufacturing jobs to China and various other Asian countries? It's because they can do the job dirt cheap.

Underpaid compared to what? To their cost of living? Not at all, and that is the only thing that matters. So you can't call it "underpaid".

I don't know much about China and the workers wage there but one mistake that people usually make when comparing wages is that they compare it without considering the cost of living. For example if a worker in another country is receiving half the payment compared to an American worker then the cost of living for that worker (utility bills, rent, groceries, etc.) costs at most half in that country compared to US too.

For example gas in US costs $3.5 per litre, $5.79 in UK, $5.57 in Germany,... while it is $1.2 in China ($0.05 in Iran)!

To answer your question about "why", it is because it is ridiculously expensive to live or work in US as everything is overpriced while it is not in China.

Darker45

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I have already thought about this possibility of the younger Chinese generation eventually going up against the way their society works.

When their parents and grandparents, their productivity in particular, were used as commodities by the country decades ago, it was more or less all right, because poverty was rampant. There was a very huge labor force, much of which untapped. When the country was selling them cheap, it was better for the people than nothing.

After several decades, when the massive cheap labor selling as well as the one-child policy in the '70s have bear fruits, the economic condition of many Chinese families have significantly improved. Thus, the younger generation has already grown up under different circumstances. They're already living the better life. Therefore, they are not anymore the kind of people the state could compel to work long tiring hours with dirt cheap compensation.

This younger generation is now demanding. Such is probably one of the reasons why labor in China is not as cheap, working conditions not as poor, and so on. If the state will insist on the old ways of doing things, it will surely backfire. This is it.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: paxmao on November 09, 2021, 06:52:43 AM

China may be taking it too far.

In China that might be true, as their government doesn't seem to be the type to be flexible in the face of mass revolt--quite the opposite, in fact, and that's been the case for many, many years.

I don't know much about this movement, but frankly I like the idea of it and wish people in the US (and other countries) would stop focusing on divisive shit like identity politics and start presenting a unified front, standing up to the leaders who are wrecking our economy and taking away our freedoms. Unfortunately in the US, everyone is getting free money from the government and I don't think that puts anyone in the mood to protest.

Props to the Chinese citizens for doing this (based on what little I know). There are a lot of things I dislike about their country, but I don't have any animosity toward any of its people. It's the government and partially their culture that says it's OK to counterfeit Western goods that I dislike the most.

Quote from: Coyster on November 10, 2021, 05:47:25 PM

I don't know the condition in China, but if the people feel they are somewhat underemployed/underpayed

Hell yes they're underpaid--why do you think the US outsourced all of its manufacturing jobs to China and various other Asian countries? It's because they can do the job dirt cheap.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: stompix on November 10, 2021, 11:26:53 AM

Why did you have to go that far back in history?
The morons that followed Stalin, Mao, Chavez also got their spoils of war with the state robbing the previous owners and giving it to their army of useful idiots.
And there was nothing left to pillage, the whole farce went down.

When Alexander and Genghis Khan tried to conquer the world, military might reigned supreme. The number of soldiers, cavalry and archers was the most important ingredient to being a global power.

Today, the game may have changed. The united states is normally credited with having the most advanced, largest and most powerful military in the world. But seems unable to do anything effectively with it.

Economic power and productivity could be more important than military power given the way the cold war came to an end. As we all know, the cold war was ended through economic means. The USSR's economy collapsed forcing it to break up into its individual, historic, composite states.

It is possible that rewarding workers, rather than soldiers could be the winning precedent to follow today. A departure from past history.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: Ucy on November 09, 2021, 12:27:56 PM

I tend to think that working will be much easy if we do what we love that is good and beneficial to society. You would be more worried when such work is taken away from you than not getting big pay. I however strongly believe that everyone should be paid sufficiently enough to take care of their basic needs. They should be paid what they deserve to be paid. No overpayment or underpayment.

Rest comes after working hard. Work until you are exhausted, then take a break and rest.

Apparently, you've got a point of this (doing what you love as per work) but then, humans aren't machines. You can still get exhausted while doing what you live the most and not to mention, being poorly appreciated for your efforts or work. The body needs rest and the Chinese citizens haven't been really getting much of it. China produces most of the world's needs today as per goods and some services and this comes at a price, a price which has resulted to the bases of the 'Tang ping' movement as we have it today. Surely the Chinese government would look into it and provide a solution even with the recent break from the pandemic.

Silberman

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Quote from: paxmao on November 09, 2021, 06:52:43 AM

This is about the Tang Ping movement in China and the effects of motivation in the economy. China, with their tracking of "good citizens" behaviour, is including things like boycotts to certain brands or certain uses of games and technology. The Tang Ping document means literally "lay down", and is a call to reject the massive pressure from the state, low wages and poor conditions.

China may be taking it too far.

Well Ancient Rome had a lot of problems motivating their slaves to work too, after all if someone is a slave what kind of incentive do they have to work hard for? The only one that gets benefits are the slave owners, so slaves had all the incentive to not work as hard and the slave owners needed to use the whip to force them to do so, the Chinese government is facing now the same issue, they cannot offer incentives because that will be like admitting they were wrong on their policies, so what are they doing? Increasing the pain of the Chinese population and they are responding in a logical way by refusing to work.

worldofcoins

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Quote from: paxmao on November 09, 2021, 06:52:43 AM

This is about the Tang Ping movement in China and the effects of motivation in the economy. China, with their tracking of "good citizens" behaviour, is including things like boycotts to certain brands or certain uses of games and technology. The Tang Ping document means literally "lay down", and is a call to reject the massive pressure from the state, low wages and poor conditions.

China may be taking it too far.

Their "Good citizens" are those who obey the country's power without any objection and are sheepy.
In any case, it's hard to go against their dictatorship which is still a possibility that some do.

China's Social Credit system will ruin everything for the people who want free will and they will be forced to leave the country as cryptocurrency miners did.

Coyster

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The whole concept is still somewhat ambiguous to me, but after surfing the internet I was able to get a little understand of it, it feels like some people in China feel they are working so hard, with little or no reward to show for it, if that's the case, then I don't know if it's a sort of a protest to their government for maybe better wages and prolly better working condition or things of that sort. I don't know the condition in China, but if the people feel they are somewhat underemployed/underpayed, then I think the government should do something about that cause all the blame still falls back to them, it's obviously the duty of the government to improve the condition of workers in their country, but since the Chinese government is a dictatorial one, I don't know if they will be moved by this.

paxmao

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Quote from: so98nn on November 10, 2021, 12:22:33 AM

...

Laying down, well; as human the chinese peeps should not be treated like that. They are literally loosing the right to "Choose" and would be making the upcoming generation as robotic army who works and works without desires to fulfil their own dreams.

Absolutely true. China's current government has made a few thing very clear: a) Order (they call it "harmony") comes before choice and freedom. b) They are willing to cohabitate with the wildest and most inhuman governments around the world as long as China's system is not ever questioned. c) Challenging the government is not an option. This includes a digital control on how good of a citizen are each of the millions o people that live there.

naira

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Is this some kind of mental therapy or is it like practicing Falun Gong? if this creates a good mentality as output means it need not be a serious problem. As did the young people there, only as a form of protest because they work long hours but with very disproportionate wages.

What was wrong with Tang Ping move? any minus? Or are fed up with an authoritarian government system that always worships a leader who is considered a god with the largest statue as a symbol of the triumph of Communism?

oh, let's give fair advice, if the Chinese people carry out the Tang Ping movement, then the Chinese government deserves the Zuò xià movement.

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