Without government, would there actually be more theft from the rich?

Daniel91

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Quote from: acroman08 on January 19, 2016, 04:48:18 AM

Without the goverment theft will be common and ofcourse other crimes will be common too. So like it or not government is actually doing something about it. Just let the government do their stuff and do your part to improve the society.

What if government also become corrupted and bad?
Even worst than average criminals?
We are still very fare from ideal society and state and I think current political system is very far from ideal.
We, people, should have freedom in average life, business, planning family etc. and government should be small and effective, taking care only about army, monetary policy, national health care, public schools etc.
Freedom society is regulated by the market, based on supply and demand.
Local communities should take care about security and protect people.

saddampbuh

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Quote from: Elwar on January 19, 2016, 04:28:12 AM

Those are not opportunities.

sure they are. the opportunity to live in an apartment with indoor plumbing instead of a hut, the opportunity to eat protein instead of cereal, the opportunity to go to school instead of down a mine shaft.

acroman08

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Without the goverment theft will be common and ofcourse other crimes will be common too. So like it or not government is actually doing something about it. Just let the government do their stuff and do your part to improve the society.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 05:56:32 PM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 04:10:23 PM

Just addressing your statement that people have to be exploited or go hungry or go without shelter.

Being in the US we have more opportunities than the rest of the world, mostly due to more tyrannical governments in the other countries that do not respect property rights.

it might also be due to the minimum wage legislation, housing projects, food and rent subsidies and other government measures libertarians describe as "theft"

Those are not opportunities.

mOgliE

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Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 05:56:32 PM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 04:10:23 PM

Just addressing your statement that people have to be exploited or go hungry or go without shelter.

Being in the US we have more opportunities than the rest of the world, mostly due to more tyrannical governments in the other countries that do not respect property rights.

it might also be due to the minimum wage legislation, housing projects, food and rent subsidies and other government measures libertarians describe as "theft"

No of course not. It's just because we have a strong property right. Nothing to do with socialism whatsoever. Nothing. Grin

mOgliE

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Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 04:34:54 PM

Quote from: mOgliE on January 18, 2016, 07:50:54 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:46:51 AM

Quote from: mOgliE on January 18, 2016, 07:40:39 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 04:26:40 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

Oh, wonderful dumb comment.
"afford food and shelter" means nothing. Which kind of food and shelter? Yes most people can afford rotten food and eating the exact same cereal day after day. Which leads to malnutrition and early death. Yes most people have a "shelter". It mostly consists in just a bunch of garbages assembled into a house shape but it doesn't rain on their head if it's what you mean. Well that doesn't mean they won't die of cold cause there is nothing to protect them from that but still.

People can afford "food and shelter" as you say. For sure. Just eat the dirt and live under a bridge. Won't cost you 1$!

Or be like this guy who has no job who is richer than all of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF9TNM9R-iw

Oh yeah? And where do you find the 20k$ needed for the boat he has? With his incredible 1200$ camera he sure never had money... Roll Eyes

You're one of those dumbass saying that "it's perfectly normal if 1% of the world has more than 99%, cause it means everyone can go to the top" no?

If you do some research you'll find boats like his for free quite often. I get messages at least once a week about someone giving away a boat. People get tired of paying dock fees and just give them away. I have a friend that got one similar for doing some lawn work for a guy.

And for the "dumbass" comment I welcome you to my ignore list.

Well thanks for the introduction. Seems like you won't see this answer but you know what? If "lots of your firends" are giving out boats for free, then you and your friends are all rich dumbasses. You don't get a boat like this for free, that's just a lie. You get boats like this in such a poor state it's cheaper to buy a new one than to repair it for free yes, but not a functionnal boat.

And you may find me insulting or rude, but I find your stupidity insulting sir.

saddampbuh

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Activity: 1078

Merit: 1014

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 04:10:23 PM

Just addressing your statement that people have to be exploited or go hungry or go without shelter.

Being in the US we have more opportunities than the rest of the world, mostly due to more tyrannical governments in the other countries that do not respect property rights.

it might also be due to the minimum wage legislation, housing projects, food and rent subsidies and other government measures libertarians describe as "theft"

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: mOgliE on January 18, 2016, 07:50:54 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:46:51 AM

Quote from: mOgliE on January 18, 2016, 07:40:39 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 04:26:40 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

Oh, wonderful dumb comment.
"afford food and shelter" means nothing. Which kind of food and shelter? Yes most people can afford rotten food and eating the exact same cereal day after day. Which leads to malnutrition and early death. Yes most people have a "shelter". It mostly consists in just a bunch of garbages assembled into a house shape but it doesn't rain on their head if it's what you mean. Well that doesn't mean they won't die of cold cause there is nothing to protect them from that but still.

People can afford "food and shelter" as you say. For sure. Just eat the dirt and live under a bridge. Won't cost you 1$!

Or be like this guy who has no job who is richer than all of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF9TNM9R-iw

Oh yeah? And where do you find the 20k$ needed for the boat he has? With his incredible 1200$ camera he sure never had money... Roll Eyes

You're one of those dumbass saying that "it's perfectly normal if 1% of the world has more than 99%, cause it means everyone can go to the top" no?

If you do some research you'll find boats like his for free quite often. I get messages at least once a week about someone giving away a boat. People get tired of paying dock fees and just give them away. I have a friend that got one similar for doing some lawn work for a guy.

And for the "dumbass" comment I welcome you to my ignore list.

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 08:21:20 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

so what you're saying is workers in developed countries should stand by and watch their pay and living conditions being eroded away until they converge with those of people in the third world who live in shipping containers and tents and survive on charity and foreign aid handouts. there's a reason libertarians poll at 2% and it's not that they don't get air time.

Just addressing your statement that people have to be exploited or go hungry or go without shelter.

Being in the US we have more opportunities than the rest of the world, mostly due to more tyrannical governments in the other countries that do not respect property rights.

saddampbuh

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1014

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

so what you're saying is workers in developed countries should stand by and watch their pay and living conditions being eroded away until they converge with those of people in the third world who live in shipping containers and tents and survive on charity and foreign aid handouts. there's a reason libertarians poll at 2% and it's not that they don't get air time.

mOgliE

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Activity: 1344

Merit: 1251

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:46:51 AM

Quote from: mOgliE on January 18, 2016, 07:40:39 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 04:26:40 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

Oh, wonderful dumb comment.
"afford food and shelter" means nothing. Which kind of food and shelter? Yes most people can afford rotten food and eating the exact same cereal day after day. Which leads to malnutrition and early death. Yes most people have a "shelter". It mostly consists in just a bunch of garbages assembled into a house shape but it doesn't rain on their head if it's what you mean. Well that doesn't mean they won't die of cold cause there is nothing to protect them from that but still.

People can afford "food and shelter" as you say. For sure. Just eat the dirt and live under a bridge. Won't cost you 1$!

Or be like this guy who has no job who is richer than all of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF9TNM9R-iw

Oh yeah? And where do you find the 20k$ needed for the boat he has? With his incredible 1200$ camera he sure never had money... Roll Eyes

You're one of those dumbass saying that "it's perfectly normal if 1% of the world has more than 99%, cause it means everyone can go to the top" no?

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: mOgliE on January 18, 2016, 07:40:39 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 04:26:40 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

Oh, wonderful dumb comment.
"afford food and shelter" means nothing. Which kind of food and shelter? Yes most people can afford rotten food and eating the exact same cereal day after day. Which leads to malnutrition and early death. Yes most people have a "shelter". It mostly consists in just a bunch of garbages assembled into a house shape but it doesn't rain on their head if it's what you mean. Well that doesn't mean they won't die of cold cause there is nothing to protect them from that but still.

People can afford "food and shelter" as you say. For sure. Just eat the dirt and live under a bridge. Won't cost you 1$!

Or be like this guy who has no job who is richer than all of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF9TNM9R-iw

mOgliE

legendary

Activity: 1344

Merit: 1251

Quote from: Elwar on January 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 04:26:40 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

Oh, wonderful dumb comment.
"afford food and shelter" means nothing. Which kind of food and shelter? Yes most people can afford rotten food and eating the exact same cereal day after day. Which leads to malnutrition and early death. Yes most people have a "shelter". It mostly consists in just a bunch of garbages assembled into a house shape but it doesn't rain on their head if it's what you mean. Well that doesn't mean they won't die of cold cause there is nothing to protect them from that but still.

People can afford "food and shelter" as you say. For sure. Just eat the dirt and live under a bridge. Won't cost you 1$!

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 18, 2016, 04:26:40 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

Considering over 2 billion people in the world survive on less than $3 per day, most people can afford food and shelter. Taking a job where you feel you are "exploited" is not a requirement for not going hungry.

madonnino

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

I ❤ www.LuckyB.it!

the government is formed, controlled, bribed by the rich, so for me there is no difference between the government and not with the government. It would be the same, the most 'strong eat the most' weak, it's 'the Food Chain'

mOgliE

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Activity: 1344

Merit: 1251

I'd say it's a rather easy question to answer.

Overs last decades, government became less and less powerful, they stopped taxing the rich, let the companies more and more freedom.

What's the result? Well the inequalities rised again and again. We just reached the cap where 88 people possess more than half of the earth population. I don't see why it happens. For me government could fix this, but they'd have to want it!

saddampbuh

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Activity: 1078

Merit: 1014

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:02:47 PM

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

you have to be paid at least enough money to be able to afford them, which many workers in menial jobs are not, which is why government "theft" on behalf of poor workers exists

ACAB

hero member

Activity: 636

Merit: 500

Actually it doesn't change much. Some people is and will always steal. Rules are for rich people to cover from poor, but in no rule world still we couldn't stop inequality. Pro-anarchos couldn't find a solution to this. Even if you stop poverty some people still steal something.

Anddos

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

I've thought a lot about this subject. And I don't agree with many things, and many taxes are there just to bleed us dry, and without real purpose. But this is really the way things work. We cannot all be at the top.
The simple fact that you can walk the street safe is says something.
And over the years the living standard and life expectancy have gone up.
I don't know - maybe in an utopic future where there are robots and no one should work anymore, and everyone dedicated themselves to art and knowledge without monetary ideals it could work.
But it's in our nature to be violent, to try ant get power and be above the others.
That's why many times religious communities appear and try to distance themselves from the majority of the world.

Elwar

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Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: saddampbuh on January 17, 2016, 02:31:08 PM

Quote from: Elwar on January 17, 2016, 03:32:37 AM

It says more about you than the point you are trying to make if you actually believe that the only way to go without food and shelter is by working for someone who is exploiting you.

let me guess, get better educated, work harder, get promoted and become a millionaire? someone else is still going to have to be the janitor and retail worker. capitalist/libertarian don't have a solution for how to provide for everyone's needs because that isn't their goal. their goal is to get rich themselves and fuck everyone else.

Do you have to be a millionaire to have shelter and food?

Topic: Without government, would there actually be more theft from the rich? (Read 2343 times)