Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another? - page 6.

fatbitcoinfan

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Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 07:12:08 PM

This is just hypothetical, but imagine the other 10% consists of die-hard nutters for whom it isn't just about the money?

Then there are two branches.

One has 90% of the hashpower and has blocks every 11 minutes.

The other has 10% of the hashpower and has blocks every 100 minutes.

The slow chain has only 10% of the transaction processing capacity that it had before the fork. 1 MB every 100 minutes. It quickly becomes unusable.

Checkmate.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: johnyj on January 31, 2016, 07:20:12 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 07:12:08 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 07:01:31 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:50:03 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:48:04 PM

It's the authority to accept or reject that Chinese miners could conceivably wrest from Core.

It's possible that overwhelming hashpower could allow them to succeed.

You mean in a contentious hard fork situation? Ain't nobody got time for that. Roll Eyes

You're darn tootin'.

When you're got more than 90% of the hashpower, it's not really contentious any more.

This is just hypothetical, but imagine the other 10% consists of die-hard nutters for whom it isn't just about the money?

There are already people who would like to see bitcoin become a totally anonymous and trace-less system, so that no one can really understand how money moves in this system. But they can already fork their small chain and use that new dark bitcoin, and there will be people specifically interested in those features. But to hijack the whole network hash power to support their chain will be too much, I think majority of the large actors in this industry must follow regulation due to their size and visibility

I think you're talking about CT the sidechain? This worries people?

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 07:12:08 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 07:01:31 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:50:03 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:48:04 PM

It's the authority to accept or reject that Chinese miners could conceivably wrest from Core.

It's possible that overwhelming hashpower could allow them to succeed.

You mean in a contentious hard fork situation? Ain't nobody got time for that. Roll Eyes

You're darn tootin'.

When you're got more than 90% of the hashpower, it's not really contentious any more.

This is just hypothetical, but imagine the other 10% consists of die-hard nutters for whom it isn't just about the money?

There are already people who would like to see bitcoin become a totally anonymous and trace-less system, so that no one can really understand how money moves in this system. But they can already fork their small chain and use that new dark bitcoin, and there will be people specifically interested in those features. But to hijack the whole network hash power to support their chain will be too much, I think majority of the large actors in this industry must follow regulation due to their size and visibility

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 07:01:31 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:50:03 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:48:04 PM

It's the authority to accept or reject that Chinese miners could conceivably wrest from Core.

It's possible that overwhelming hashpower could allow them to succeed.

You mean in a contentious hard fork situation? Ain't nobody got time for that. Roll Eyes

You're darn tootin'.

When you're got more than 90% of the hashpower, it's not really contentious any more.

This is just hypothetical, but imagine the other 10% consists of die-hard nutters for whom it isn't just about the money?

johnyj

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Activity: 1988

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Beyond Imagination

fatbitcoinfan

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Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:50:03 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:48:04 PM

It's the authority to accept or reject that Chinese miners could conceivably wrest from Core.

It's possible that overwhelming hashpower could allow them to succeed.

You mean in a contentious hard fork situation? Ain't nobody got time for that. Roll Eyes

You're darn tootin'.

When you're got more than 90% of the hashpower, it's not really contentious any more.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:48:04 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:40:08 PM

I don't doubt they can and that isn't quite what I said.

This is an open source project. Anybody is free to submit code. Am I wrong?

I apologize for misrepresenting you. I was trying to be laconic.

I think there's universal agreement that everybody is free to submit.

It's the authority to accept or reject that Chinese miners could conceivably wrest from Core.

It's possible that overwhelming hashpower could allow them to succeed.

You mean in a contentious hard fork situation? Ain't nobody got time for that. Roll Eyes

fatbitcoinfan

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Activity: 24

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Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:40:08 PM

I don't doubt they can and that isn't quite what I said.

This is an open source project. Anybody is free to submit code. Am I wrong?

I apologize for misrepresenting you. I was trying to be laconic.

I think there's universal agreement that everybody is free to submit.

It's the authority to accept or reject that Chinese miners could conceivably wrest from Core.

It's possible that overwhelming hashpower could allow them to succeed.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Activity: 1260

Merit: 1116

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:35:48 PM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:29:25 PM

This idea doesn't really pass my smell test and I'm not sure why. BIP's are accepted or rejected based on merit. Throwing money at a developer in the hopes of getting some code past the gates? I don't get it.

Maybe the Chinese miners think they are able to judge merit by themselves.

I don't doubt they can and that isn't quite what I said.

This is an open source project. Anybody is free to submit code. Am I wrong?

fatbitcoinfan

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Merit: 0

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 06:29:25 PM

This idea doesn't really pass my smell test and I'm not sure why. BIP's are accepted or rejected based on merit. Throwing money at a developer in the hopes of getting some code past the gates? I don't get it.

Maybe the Chinese miners think they are able to judge merit by themselves.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 31, 2016, 06:26:37 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 30, 2016, 11:37:22 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 30, 2016, 10:22:08 AM

My bet is that Chinese miners will sponsor Luke-jr so that he can change the PoW to put all the Chinese miners out of business.

It's a disgrace.

I realize now that I've made a mistake. Chinese miners will sponsor a "core" dev but not a Core dev.

That is, not one of the existing Core devs.

I think the important question is what will happen if and when the dev sponsored by the Chinese miners tries to bring the code in a direction contrary to Core's.

Either the Chinese miners plus dev would start a new fork (with majority hashpower) or they would suffer loss and humiliation as their pull requests were rejected.

So you're either a contender for the throne or a servant to the powerful.

Choose wisely, Chinese miners.

This idea doesn't really pass my smell test and I'm not sure why. BIP's are accepted or rejected based on merit. Throwing money at a developer in the hopes of getting some code past the gates? I don't get it.

fatbitcoinfan

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Activity: 24

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Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 30, 2016, 11:37:22 PM

Quote from: fatbitcoinfan on January 30, 2016, 10:22:08 AM

My bet is that Chinese miners will sponsor Luke-jr so that he can change the PoW to put all the Chinese miners out of business.

It's a disgrace.

I realize now that I've made a mistake. Chinese miners will sponsor a "core" dev but not a Core dev.

That is, not one of the existing Core devs.

I think the important question is what will happen if and when the dev sponsored by the Chinese miners tries to bring the code in a direction contrary to Core's.

Either the Chinese miners plus dev would start a new fork (with majority hashpower) or they would suffer loss and humiliation as their pull requests were rejected.

So you're either a contender for the throne or a servant to the powerful.

Choose wisely, Chinese miners.

hdbuck

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Seriously, Classic supporter, with your money, you really stand by

the gavin chief scientist (no bitcoin commits in years!),
the toomin junkie unable to write more than 2 lines of code by himself,
the bodiwala altcoin developer,
the peter r gifmaker,
the marshall long scammer,
the cypherdoc scammer,
the roger ver bullshitter,
the jansens racist looser,
the goldmansachs subsidy (coinbase) and all the stupidly naive VC backed up corporations

Huh

MP is a blessing in comparaison, he never wanted to harm bitcoin, in any ways, and he did denounce all the scams and frauds in bitcoin, from the bitcoin foundation, to gavincoin, all the way with gox etc..

BlindMayorBitcorn

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At the risk of sounding all PC here, I approve of neither death threats or racism, not only because they aren't funny. But if a thing is gonna be said it should be funny. That's all I'm saying.

hdbuck

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Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 04:33:47 PM

Quote from: hdbuck on January 31, 2016, 03:59:52 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on January 31, 2016, 02:11:09 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on January 31, 2016, 02:41:26 AM

Quote from: BitUsher on January 30, 2016, 06:43:21 PM

To give Garzik a little bit of credit , he attempted to raise the the threshold to a slightly better number of 80% but was shutdown by Olivier Janssens in a couple minutes with support of the ~~lead~~ classic dev

https://twitter.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/693461617296678912
https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/60#issuecomment-177162092

It doesn't appear that Classic will budge to the concerns to the miners wanting at least 90%.

Thanks for the reconnaissance about the predictable, yet still hilarious, internal division at Classic HQ.

I suspect the optimally bad 75% is being enforced for reasons which are not yet public. Perhaps like XT, Classic is only a probing attack, not intended to succeed but only for gathering info on the Core Defense Network and small block militia.

Garzik, as you note, has a brain, so he seems like a bad fit over there.

Who is this Olivier Janssens assclown, and why would he have "final call" authority above Garzik's?

Oh I see, he's some toxic, bigoted, ratfucking VC schmuck that plays sugar daddy to the anti-Core insurgency.

I look forward to seeing his head mounted in Mircea's trophy case, right next to Hearn's.

How big is this trophy case?

http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

Oh c'mon stop being such enraged virgin. That's humor. Grin

Humor is supposed to be funny. Angry

1BTC on the head of somebody is a joke.. unless bitcoin hits 100k? Grin

OTOH some racist looser pretending to represent bitcoin is also a joke. Unless he manages to disrupt the wonderful technology satoshi left us with, breaking the holy consensus and making all our coins worth 0.

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: hdbuck on January 31, 2016, 03:59:52 PM

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on January 31, 2016, 02:11:09 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on January 31, 2016, 02:41:26 AM

Quote from: BitUsher on January 30, 2016, 06:43:21 PM

To give Garzik a little bit of credit , he attempted to raise the the threshold to a slightly better number of 80% but was shutdown by Olivier Janssens in a couple minutes with support of the ~~lead~~ classic dev

https://twitter.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/693461617296678912
https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/60#issuecomment-177162092

It doesn't appear that Classic will budge to the concerns to the miners wanting at least 90%.

Thanks for the reconnaissance about the predictable, yet still hilarious, internal division at Classic HQ.

I suspect the optimally bad 75% is being enforced for reasons which are not yet public. Perhaps like XT, Classic is only a probing attack, not intended to succeed but only for gathering info on the Core Defense Network and small block militia.

Garzik, as you note, has a brain, so he seems like a bad fit over there.

Who is this Olivier Janssens assclown, and why would he have "final call" authority above Garzik's?

Oh I see, he's some toxic, bigoted, ratfucking VC schmuck that plays sugar daddy to the anti-Core insurgency.

I look forward to seeing his head mounted in Mircea's trophy case, right next to Hearn's.

How big is this trophy case?

http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

Oh c'mon stop being such enraged virgin. That's humor. Grin

Humor is supposed to be funny. Angry

hdbuck

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Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on January 31, 2016, 02:11:09 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on January 31, 2016, 02:41:26 AM

Quote from: BitUsher on January 30, 2016, 06:43:21 PM

To give Garzik a little bit of credit , he attempted to raise the the threshold to a slightly better number of 80% but was shutdown by Olivier Janssens in a couple minutes with support of the ~~lead~~ classic dev

https://twitter.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/693461617296678912
https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/60#issuecomment-177162092

It doesn't appear that Classic will budge to the concerns to the miners wanting at least 90%.

Thanks for the reconnaissance about the predictable, yet still hilarious, internal division at Classic HQ.

I suspect the optimally bad 75% is being enforced for reasons which are not yet public. Perhaps like XT, Classic is only a probing attack, not intended to succeed but only for gathering info on the Core Defense Network and small block militia.

Garzik, as you note, has a brain, so he seems like a bad fit over there.

Who is this Olivier Janssens assclown, and why would he have "final call" authority above Garzik's?

Oh I see, he's some toxic, bigoted, ratfucking VC schmuck that plays sugar daddy to the anti-Core insurgency.

I look forward to seeing his head mounted in Mircea's trophy case, right next to Hearn's.

How big is this trophy case?

http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

Oh c'mon stop being such enraged virgin. That's humor. Grin

Cconvert2G36

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Activity: 392

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on January 31, 2016, 02:41:26 AM

Quote from: BitUsher on January 30, 2016, 06:43:21 PM

To give Garzik a little bit of credit , he attempted to raise the the threshold to a slightly better number of 80% but was shutdown by Olivier Janssens in a couple minutes with support of the ~~lead~~ classic dev

https://twitter.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/693461617296678912
https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/60#issuecomment-177162092

It doesn't appear that Classic will budge to the concerns to the miners wanting at least 90%.

Thanks for the reconnaissance about the predictable, yet still hilarious, internal division at Classic HQ.

I suspect the optimally bad 75% is being enforced for reasons which are not yet public. Perhaps like XT, Classic is only a probing attack, not intended to succeed but only for gathering info on the Core Defense Network and small block militia.

Garzik, as you note, has a brain, so he seems like a bad fit over there.

Who is this Olivier Janssens assclown, and why would he have "final call" authority above Garzik's?

Oh I see, he's some toxic, bigoted, ratfucking VC schmuck that plays sugar daddy to the anti-Core insurgency.

I look forward to seeing his head mounted in Mircea's trophy case, right next to Hearn's.

How big is this trophy case?

http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 12:07:04 PM

You're in China. Can't you fix that? Get them all grokked to the ethos or whatever already. Angry

I don't think that the Chinese government really gives much of a fuck what I think about (and if they did that would actually probably be of concern to me).

As I stated before - for the purpose of communication between the core devs and the Chinese miners I would offer my help (free of charge) because I am a Bitcoin "believer".

BlindMayorBitcorn

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 31, 2016, 11:49:19 AM

Quote from: BlindMayorBitcorn on January 31, 2016, 11:47:04 AM

There don't seem to be any hard psychological or financial incentives to running full nodes built into the system. I imagine if consumer use ever takes off in China we'll see more of them pop up?

We are not going to see that as Bitcoin is not allowed to be used for commercial purchases in China (it is only allowed to be used like a "stock").

You're in China. Can't you fix that? Get them all grokked to the ethos or whatever already. Angry

Topic: Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another? - page 6. (Read 38029 times)