Topic: Would crypto gain full intrinsic value? - page 3. (Read 572 times)

So far all major coins were doing just fine in regards to long term profits from investing in them. However, it is not guaranteed that this trend will keep going for a long time. I mean, the volatility may remain, but the emergence of new ATHs may stop happening. From that point investing in crypto will be more like luck-based gambling, but up to the present it wasn't like that.


When BTC stops being volatile it will become useful in other areas, where it can't be utilized with the current volatility level. Maybe some hard core traders will dump it then, but it doesn't mean people in general will stop  will stop investing in it.

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value". Maybe the closest concept is the amount of usable energy a product/service contains

The edge that you describe is "Unit of accounting". This must be the most strange concept in human history. Unlike KG/LBS or Meter/Foot (that can be verified scientifically in all the labs around the world), the unit of accounting in each country's financial system is its fiat money. And to ensure its stability, central banks look at CPI to monitor the inflation and adjust the money supply in according.

This whole concept of price stability of fiat money is just based on people's imagination and blind trust, it has nothing to do with market supply and demand. For example, FED created more than 5X money in a few years after 2008 financial crisis, and the goods and services did not increase that much, if not decreased, but you never see anything's price rose by 5x in that period. Why? Because most of the people do not have financial knowledge, they think USD is just like LBS/FOOT, have a fixed value and it is used to measure the value of anything else, regardless of how much it is produced

But there is no need to wake up everyone when they are sleeping, that is how today's financial system works. They can believe in what they want to believe, while smart people profit from it

In cryptocurrency, you don't have that imagination and blind trust, so you see the value of cryptocurrency fluctuates because of supply and demand. If one day, people start to use cryptocurrency to measure value, then they will discover that everything's price measured by cryptocurrency will keep going down, because of the limited supply of coins and forever increasing supply of goods/services. Those who hold coins would just become richer and richer by doing nothing, and business making production will find out that when final product is released, its sale price already got lower than the cost, so they end up doing nothing too. And that's why modern monetary policy don't take this approach, it will discourage any economy activities and cause recession

Intrinsic value is all about estimations and assumptions. This means different formations are followed to calculate the intrinsic value. In some form it has got its full intrinsic value. Just because it gets acceptance as currency doesn't get its intrinsic value. Different factors are taken into consideration. In one formation to calculate the intrinsic value it is all associated with the prevailing market environment, investors willing to hold for profit, etc.

In simple if a product/ico/ipo didn't go well as planned, then the future cashflow on the respective product will be low for sure than the estimation. This makes the intrinsic value go even down than calculated - In this means Bitcoin already have gained good intrinsic value.

The community has known Bitcoin because of its surprising and unpredictable price. The people love its volatility and much more for the traders. Yet, it never gains the full intrinsic value as a currency but at least, it is found to be useful not just in terms of currency, it somehow in terms of an investment.

To think of becoming a global currency in the future, just maybe but it would never wipe out fiat money as the use of crypto is just an alternative option as more of payment. There is no such thing that could replace fiat, as this is actually impossible.

These are good points, it makes sense that there are some people who love the volatility
of Bitcoin and crypto. If you are a trader volatility offers chances to make gains and
losses for some.

On Bitcoins intrinsic value, what gives it value is:

Limited supply
peer-to-peer transactions
incorruptible software
verified public ledger
software development team
global network of both miners and core hosts

That's the reason why crypto became an asset and not a currency. I mean sure there are many people who spend crypto daily, and there are many shops that accept it as well but that "many" is compared to how many we had in the past. If we compare it to how many accept fiat, well all of them do, so it is really not even something we could compare.

This is why I believe that crypto became an investment, because people realized that fiat is stable and will not make you too much profit while crypto is volatile and yes there is a chance you may lose a lot but there is also a chance that you may earn so much money that way, which is what I believe happened with crypto at the time as well. We should hope that bitcoin stays like this if we want to, because in the end if we stop being volatile then people will stop investing as well, more people will use it but that won't be enough.

Price fluctuations exist in everything, look at the dollar against other currencies and you will see that the dollar also changes its value over time against those currencies, bitcoin is more extreme in its volatility that is true but if the global adoption that we want happened then the volatility will be way smaller than what we see now, but it will never disappear.

So what you are describing will not happen because even if all fiat currencies disappeared then bitcoin will have a price outside itself as we will still have a lot of altcoins that will have an exchange rate in terms of bitcoin.

The stability of fiat is less interesting than the volatility of Bitcoin.

I think Bitcoin wouldn't be as popular as it is right now if volatility did not become part of it. The unpredictable and sometimes sudden rise and fall of the price of Bitcoin became the most attractive characteristic of Bitcoin itself to a lot of people. The price of which was that Bitcoin became less and less a currency and more a speculative asset. But I guess that's the one that mainly pushes the price of Bitcoin up. Even solid Bitcoin enthusiasts and advocates are now talking of Bitcoin's price more often.

It is clear that we may never see bitcoin as the alone standing currency without anything else. We need fiat to calculate things, even if we are buying a cup of coffee, we still need to arrange the price according to fiat pegged price. All in all we may just need to accept the fact that crypto will never be legal tender globally without any fiat in the world, that may never happen.

This doesn't mean that adoption can't increase, the volatility doesn't matter for adoption because we could always calculate on the fly with many tools, and that way you can charge whatever you want at that time, based on whatever the fiat price of bitcoin is, that way it will keep on working as intended, digitally. Obviously investment is a whole another story, because while crypto is great for using it to buy something, it is ten times more used (probably even more) just for investment, and volatility is even good in that case.

the longer the adoption of bitcoin is increasing and I think this will continue to happen for years to come.
and the answer from the thread you wrote goes back in time. and only time will tell, and when it does happen then your words about trading crypto based on its value without looking at fiat will certainly come true.
and maybe what will definitely happen is the market capitalization of bitcoin will definitely continue to increase over time

Do you refer that being less volatile means getting to the state of full intrinsic value? Probably it is a kind of economic perspective, that I never come across or never got chances to think that way. Unfortunately I believe cryptos may not get full intrinsic value in near future as I am not expecting less volatile for them.

Yes, when only less than 10% of world population is using cryptocurrencies so far when it goes into more people then volatility will persist. Moreover, there are unimageable whales are into this ecosystem and their manipulation will take more time to lose its power. So, I am not seeing bitcoin to remain less volatile in near future.

     For now, as of this moment, what you have mentioned currently is somehow an annoying problem and flaw of cryptos in this industry. But then again, we are still in the very early stages. Ghere is still so much time and room for improvement. And if the coins today never evolve, then then some coins wii absolutely launch labelling itself as stable coin and less volatile. People are known to be capable of adapting. And with time, fixing thiese issues will be possible. Which can result into a faster mass adoption.

if the crypto value is based on the value owned not based on fiat I think it's a little difficult because high volatility will affect.
other than that for direct transactions, all places are still adopting fiat. and this is the difficulty crypto is still tied to fiat. so you really have to wait for regulations from various countries' agreements, especially if you want to legalize crypto as a full payment. it will definitely cause controversy

There's an expected huge inflation that will decrease the value of fiat in the nearest future or we're already seeing the effect of the last year's slow down due to the covid pandemic.

We don't know what's with it but we're all having the same thoughts about an entire economy that's not backed by fiat. But, that economy might be backed by the biggest cryptocurrency and that's bitcoin.

Price flux generally remains between 5%-10% at max per day. Considering that an object being priced in bitcoins will not see much changes even if you use the USD value as a base price, unless you are talking big amounts.

Common day-to-day objects could be bought in marketplaces without much changes in price. This is one explanation of how things can be managed.

You are drawing a conclusion without correct reason. The price flux is not the only factor nor the most important factor behind merchants not accepting crypto. It is the government's negative stance that puts them off. Just think of yourself a law-abiding citizen who is running a business well - would you want to start a new payment method that is outlawed and seen negatively by the media and public in general?

Things may change with more countries adopting crypto, but this will be slow, in fact even in the country where has been done, there is a lot of resistance from public to actually accept it.

It is not possible to get the full benefit of crypto if it becomes a legal tender to make a profit at the underlying price the government will regulate cryptocurrencies like fiat the introduction of this currency as decentralized is more popular. Investors get more profit for rising and falling once centralized the bull run will stay in one place and will not come prices are rising and falling and the market is volatile. Investors are holding on to bitcoin to make more profit as it is raising the price of bitcoin.

Intrinsic value is not "gained".

Bitcoin already has intrinsic value because of the fact that it is scarce, and no one can ever tamper with the scarcity of BTC.

But at the end of the day, I do think that there will be a time when BTC is used as a unit of account in and of itself. People are increasingly not caring about what price action we can on a daily, weekly basis. We need more merchant adoption and integration for this process to accelerate.

It'll take a long time before it gains intrinsic value, or perhaps lower price volatility that most people are waiting for since it's one way for crypto to be accepted on many countries in terms of payments and legal status. Right now, people don't see bitcoin and crypto as something that they can use for payments, and most deem crypto as an investment rather than a currency to which they can use to pay for goods and services. Perhaps as time goes by, and as more people use bitcoin, and more businesses and governments dared to accept it, that's the time when change would start to come.

For now, bitcoin and crypto's volatility is its selling point, as it attracts lots of traders who try to make money out of it.

The volatility issue is that factor that I think may not go away easily and is because there is no regulation for the moment so nobody is restricted from buying or selling any amount in a day. Fiat has control through the banks and large amount of transactions  are limited this hopes to control the amount of cash in circulation.

If only fiat would perish then that would happen in the future but that's not how it works these days and the fiat currency/value would be gone we should be seeing that intrinsic value of Bitcoin itself. Although, fiat currency wouldn't just perish though since older people aren't a fan of crypto currency or they aren't just tech savvy that's why there's a less adoption for them in crypto.

But I think time has something to do with it but it's just a matter of time then until we are going to see the total adoption of Bitcoin and there's no backing of fiat value anymore. Fluctuations may still vary though since there's always a time where manipulators/whales did something to the market plus the traders.