Topic: would someone give a loan? - page 2. (Read 3458 times)

So, let me get this double clear.

In your original post you asked:

The only reason you mentioned bitcoin is because it is a cheap way of transferring $1000 to you?
It doesn't matter if the $1000 are wired to you, sent as bitcoin or delivered by helicopter, just so long as you don't pay for the cost of the transfer?
You will deposit 4 btc with escrow, returnable to you when you repay the $1000 plus interest?
If bitcoin declines in value during the course of the loan, you will keep the escrow amount topped up to a minimum of 120% i.e. $1200 equivalent?
Apart from the collateral being bitcoin, this is a dollar transaction, bitcoin only mentioned by you because it's a cheap method of transfer?

If the answer to those questions is yes, then we would be interested in lending you $1000 or more, but would want more than 1% per month.
It's late here now, unless you make other arrangements in the meantime, maybe we could continue this conversation tomorrow?

It's not really shorting on bitcoin
It's shorting the bitcoins you own, so actually selling them but if you buy them back now with dollars you are just lending out dollars.

I see.  Sounds like a good opportunity for someone to short sell.

It is a loan in $ but payments are done in bitcoins
so you give me 1000$ in bitcoin and at the end I give you back 1000 + intrest $ back in bitcoin.
The escrow will keep more than the value of the loan at all time so there'll not be any risk for any of the parties.

Hi AnonBitCoiner,
I saw you were interested in providing a loan to me.
If you are still interested let me know.
Keep in mind the loan is in $. So whatever what bitcoin does, you get back the $ + interest.
Just like a bank gives you intrest to on your $ (but much lower)
I don't care about the amount of the loan but I would like to keep it under 1500$ to start with and at least 100$.


You send bitcoins straight to me (worth X $) (after an escrow confirmed I sended bitcoins to him (worth 120% of the value)) so if I sended 6 btc you send me 5. At the end (you can choose the amount of time, 1 month, 2 month, 3 months) I'll pay you back bitcoins worth X + intrest.

OR

you provide collateral and me (20% of yours) to the escrow, I sell my bitcoins and at the end the escrow pays back the amount of bitcoins worth your original loan value + intrest and the reamining part to me and I buy back my bitcoins (sorry if it is confusing but it's exactly the same in the end)


Intrest is accumulated : (1.01)^(amount of months provided)

I think we can also say anyone can cancel this agreement at any time for a cost of 0.5%. So if you would need your money back and lended out for 3 months but after 2 months you really need it back for some urgent reason we can stop the agreement, I send you X +1% (1.5-0.5%) and the escrow releases the full amount back to me.

If in any case the bitcoin price would drop more than 20% I'll provide extra collateral to the escrow. In case I can't the agreement will be ended, I'll pay back the loan and the escrow will send the btc back to me. So no risk at all for you.

I suggest we use the escrow DannyHamilton.
Kind regards,
Leen

so is this a loan in BTC to be repaid in BTC?

If both parties are willing to trust me with the bitcoins, I'd be happy to hold escrow for you.  Just let me know who the other party is, exactly how many bitcoins you both agree I'll be holding, and what the conditions of escrow release will be.  Then I'll write up an escrow agreement and send it to both of you.

Important notes:

There are scammers that will create a fake escrow agreement and put their own bitcoin address in there.  Then they will send the agreement and claim that I asked them to forward a copy to you.  It is best to verify the signature (I always digitally sign all my escrow agreements), but if you don't know how to do that then ONLY accept an agreement that you receive directly from me.

There are scammers that will create a fake bitcointalk user ID that looks very similar to mine.  Then they will send an escrow agreement to both parties hoping that neither of you will notice the very slight variation in username.  Be very careful and make absolutely certain that messages you receive are actually from the person you think they are from.  Check the posting history, trust feedback, username, start date, and if possible digital signature of the person you are communicating with.

I also have some altcoins which I could give as collateral but I think it's best to start with the btc since this once is the most stable in compare to the US $

Let's use you?  Only had good experience with you and you are the highest free escrow on the list

Try to ask it in the Lending Section. But, if you've 4 btc that you can give to an escrow, why do you want 1 btc in lending? So strange this situation. I consider that the best way is to use escrow for this type of lending.

I'm generally comfortable using any of the top 8 escrow providers on this list:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-bitcointalks-escrow-providers-ranking-blacklist-avoid-scam-276897

Interesting
But we need a really trustworthy escrow. I definetely don't trust you to just give 4 BTC and probably the opposite counts too  
and it doesnt have to be about 1000$, other amounts are possible too but it sounds a good amount to me to start with.

Can someone recommend us an escrow? (I never used an escrow before too)

I'm also thinking about opening a real virtual bank. Where people can deposit and withdraw their $ all the time (maybe against a small fee of 0.1%) and get 1% a month and I having all my bitcoins at an escrow who confirms every day the bitcoins he has in collateral are worth more than the deposits. But maybe this is to difficult and just a few people lending me 1000$ would be easier than 100 people lending me a bit.

Yes, you don't have to see it that way. See it like you use your dollars from your bank account. You buy btc with them (you can also pay me in other ways, but most of them are more expensive), lend them out and sell them again when you get them back. Then you have an intrest rate of 12% instead of the 1 (I even think I don't get that here) % on your bank account.
I'm really honest and really willing to pay back. I understand that in the long term if bitcoin crashes the collateral would not be enough (and technically I could run away) but I'm willing to adjust the amount I have in collateral. Make it lower when bitcoin price goes up, make it higher when bitcoin price drops and keeping the collateral at 120% all the time. (monthly, weekly, or even daily if you prefer but probably escrows will not agree with this). You don't have to do this but 12.68% a year without any risk instead of a 1% on your bank (maybe even with a bigger risk), don't say this is a bad investment, maybe you don't do it because you are bullish on bitcoin but for some people this could be interesting (for people who don't care about the bitcoin price and just want a good safe investment with their dollars), but till now I didn't find anyone yet.


I am lending US dollars, no bitcoins, you don't have to forget that. If you don't have dollars and don't want to sell anything for dollars this is indeed not a good investment.

Ok, read this when you've had a sleep 

Let's say you do the deal as originally specified.
He wants $1000, paid in Bitcoin. At $375, that's 2.6666 BTC you send him. In exchange, you get an IOU for $1010 and the escrow holds the collateral until the end of the loan term, then releases it back to him on receipt of the agreed $1010.
You take the $1010, but wait, the rate has gone up to $400 in the meantime.
The $1010 now only buys you 2.525 BTC to replace the 2.6666 that you originally gave him, so you lose 0.1416 BTC on the deal. (Of course, if  Bitcoin/USD goes down, you make a commensurate profit.)
Without a loan clause authorizing the escrow to deduct any change in the exchange rate from the collateral, it's not a loan, it's a private bet between the two of you on the future price of Bitcoin.

I wouldn't be buying it back though; he's essentially asking for $1000 USD, and he'll pay me back at the end. Maybe I'm too tired and I'm misunderstanding the question though.

Not trying to tell you your business, but you do understand that's it not so much a loan, more you selling him BTC at today's price and then buying it back at whatever rate prevails at the end of the month, and getting $10 for that risk?

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

He did follow the link and asked marcotheminer rather than start his own thread, and got turned down
"Interest is much too low and it isn't worth it"

I know someone who might entertain the idea of lending to him, but not with the exposure to the Bitcoin price that comes with doing it the way he wants to, and at a lot more than 1% per month. And with an immediate termination and liquidation of collateral BTC should the price drop below 105% security, especially now he's talking about up to a year's term loan...

That was my first post I didn't hyperlink it though. I think the OP was asking hypothetically, not actually though

I'm suprised no  one has posted yet.  For loans post over in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0 (loan forum) to get more attention.   You also need to know if short or long term.

I agree you sound like a good person to loan. But I think your 1 percent will not happen on here but guess we will see.   BTC loans just are not a low cost fiat loan.