Would you have engaged in the war if you were the Ukrainian President?

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Quote from: paxmao on February 28, 2023, 07:52:40 PM

It would be literally my job to protect my country. So of course. Why an earth they would surrender?
As far as I know, Ukraine did not "declare war", simply had to defend the country in order for such country to continue existing as an individual entity with its own government. If your question is if it was a wise decision to fight such a defence, I think that given the situation and knowing what we now know, it was a reasonable decision.

Me I don't like war, but one can't say the same thing about others, they are some people who loves fighting, they just want to show their power, like what the Russia president is doing now, if it was to be me, I would have tried to talk peace, just to avoid my citizens losing their lives and properties. To my own understanding Ukraine didn't start the war, they just wanted to NATO and the Russia president knows the disadvantages of Ukraine NATO, the impact it will have in their economics, that's the reason for this war. that's just my own point of view.

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Quote from: Odo1972 on February 13, 2023, 11:35:23 AM

1. My question now is, has Ukraine achieved any of these positive outcomes in the course of the war?

I do not know completely, but from what I see, Ukraine has become completely dependent on the United States and Western countries. Whether because of the destruction of a large part of the infrastructure and the other reason that the Ukrainian government receives material and military support from Western countries, it is forced to be subject to it in the end.

Quote from: Odo1972 on February 13, 2023, 11:35:23 AM

2. As President, would you engage in a war to achieve any of these positive outcomes?

The decision of peace or war should not be in the hands of the president alone, but there must be a consensus on this decision because it is related to the fate of the entire nation.

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Quote from: Odo1972 on February 13, 2023, 11:35:23 AM

After reading through some articles online I realized that despite the negative effects of war, there are still positive outcomes that can be achieved through war.
This brought my attention to the Russian Ukraine war that lasted about 1 year now.

Some positive effects that result from war include "the correction of injustices, the defeat of a problematic government, advancement in technology and medicine, and a reduction of unemployment".

1. My question now is, has Ukraine achieved any of these positive outcomes in the course of the war?

2. As President, would you engage in a war to achieve any of these positive outcomes?

War is a conflict between a region, a country, because it has a specific goal, for example, wanting to break free from the shackles of colonialism, because, injustice, the leadership is arbitrary, which results in riots, damage, between one another. many victims fell, on both sides, so many were harmed, the impact of the war.
1. many victims, especially, women, children
2. the occurrence of famine, due to lack of food
3. Paralyzed road access, economic collapse.
4. delays in supply, export and import, from various countries, due to the conflict. steps to reach an agreement, there must be awareness or stop it, war, between the two sides, must negotiate, with each other, make peace, end the war.

yazher

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Back in the past, leaders are always joining the war with their soldiers to give them morals, and also, speeches from leaders is the most important of all especially when you heard them on the front line. Nowadays, if they can manage to do a proxy war where they don't even need to sacrifice their soldiers just some ammo support to give their allies, they would do so and you won't find such a scenario where they even join and go to the frontline to join their men. That's why if you die for a country like Ukraine or Russia, it's not worth it anymore.

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Quote from: Odo1972 on February 13, 2023, 11:35:23 AM

2. As President, would you engage in a war to achieve any of these positive outcomes?

If I were the president of Ukraine, I may go to war and I may also not go to war and many things will determined my decision. These factors that determine my decision are;

What will be the consequences of not involving in the world?
If the consequences will be continuous intimidation and slavery to the other country, I will fight till the last citizen of my country is wipeout.

But if the consequences is not related to suffering and slavery, but just political alignment. I will just back off and maintain peace in my country.
It also depends on the kind of advice the president get. Many people must have promised him ammunition and man power

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Quote from: BADecker on February 28, 2023, 06:23:53 PM

Quote from: Hispo on February 28, 2023, 06:09:54 PM

Knowing myself, I would have started a military resistance to stop the advance of the invader, much like the president of Ukraine is doing right now, however I would also try to negotiate and see if there is some diplomatic way out from the conflict.

I do not like war, and since I have used some of my time investigating about its cruelty, I would try to save as many lives as possible.

That's exactly what the Russian government did when the Ukraine military inappropriately attacked the Donbas.

Cool

In BADecker world, Ukraine attacked the Donbas. But in the real world the Donbas was (and still is) Ukraine, so you are accusing Ukraine of "inappropriately" attacking Ukraine.

The fact is that Putin has been waging a war in the Donbas for several years, that is, after "inappropriately" annexing Crimea by force. Generals, advisors and even tanks of the RF army have been in the Donbas in a (what a coincidence!) undeclared war.

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Another question with Russian narrative. From your question it Ukraine and Zelensky started war and Russia isn't responsible at all. You're literally Russia in victims position. If your question would be neutral, maybe then it would be worth to discuss.
What Ukraine gained from it. It's difficult to get something positive from war. One of aspects probably that country become united like never before.

Quote from: Lordhermes on February 28, 2023, 07:40:59 AM

President Zelensky made a big mistake by engaging in war with Putin, knowning too well that he can't stand Putin, I think this dispute can only be resolved through peace talk. I'm appealing to Putin and Zelensky to end the dispute for humanity sake.

Here we go again - Ukraine started war against Russia. Please come back from alternative reality.

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Quote from: o48o on February 13, 2023, 07:57:43 PM

It would be literally my job to protect my country. So of course. Why an earth they would surrender?

What's the alternative? Let the enemy walk all over you and rape and kill your women and chidren and rob you blind? And after they walked over you they would just keep on going all over europe.

As far as I know, Ukraine did not "declare war", simply had to defend the country in order for such country to continue existing as an individual entity with its own government. If your question is if it was a wise decision to fight such a defence, I think that given the situation and knowing what we now know, it was a reasonable decision.

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Quote from: Hispo on February 28, 2023, 06:09:54 PM

Knowing myself, I would have started a military resistance to stop the advance of the invader, much like the president of Ukraine is doing right now, however I would also try to negotiate and see if there is some diplomatic way out from the conflict.

I do not like war, and since I have used some of my time investigating about its cruelty, I would try to save as many lives as possible.

That's exactly what the Russian government did when the Ukraine military inappropriately attacked the Donbas.

Cool

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Knowing myself, I would have started a military resistance to stop the advance of the invader, much like the president of Ukraine is doing right now, however I would also try to negotiate and see if there is some diplomatic way out from the conflict.

I do not like war, and since I have used some of my time investigating about its cruelty, I would try to save as many lives as possible.

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Quote from: af_newbie on February 28, 2023, 11:11:21 AM

Quote from: Lordhermes on February 28, 2023, 07:40:59 AM

President Zelensky made a big mistake by engaging in war with Putin, knowning too well that he can't stand Putin, I think this dispute can only be resolved through peace talk. I'm appealing to Putin and Zelensky to end the dispute for humanity sake.

The Russian side has presented unacceptable terms.

Peace talks can only be held after the Russian army withdraws from Ukraine or is destroyed in Ukraine.

This war will not end until Putin's army is pushed back out of Ukraine.

The peace talks will be held long after Putin is killed or commits suicide.

PS. If I were Putin, I would gradually withdraw my army and prepare the public for a "victory". Everyone in Russia will be more than happy
to have him end this war. He might even sell it that he is a national hero, long-term strategist, genius chess player, etc. Whatever.

If Putin and Russia withdrew, gave the land back to Ukraine, and ended the war,
In a few short years (but maybe only months) Ukraine and Nato would be attacking Russia to break her up for US enterprises to take over.

Now, that might not be a bad idea, but it would be a foolish idea for Russia. Until Zelensky withdraws his military, Russia needs to fight to remain a viable, prosperous country.

If Zelensky turned his military off, and if the US withdrew from Ukraine, Russia would back off, as well... though not right away. The treaty of Minsk was supposed to do this kind of thing by not letting the war happen in the first place. But the US and Ukraine broke the treaty. Merkel even said that the treaty was meant only to hold Russia back so that Ukraine could build up its war armament for this war, which they would have mounted against Russia for nothing except conquest.

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Quote from: Odo1972 on February 13, 2023, 11:35:23 AM

After reading through some articles online I realized that despite the negative effects of war, there are still positive outcomes that can be achieved through war.
This brought my attention to the Russian Ukraine war that lasted about 1 year now.

Some positive effects that result from war include "the correction of injustices, the defeat of a problematic government, advancement in technology and medicine, and a reduction of unemployment".

1. My question now is, has Ukraine achieved any of these positive outcomes in the course of the war?

2. As President, would you engage in a war to achieve any of these positive outcomes?

Perhaps I'm a bit cynical, but I think the positives of the war from the Ukrainian perspective include receiving trillions in dollars of aid from the United States, advanced weaponry, their enemies weakened, and better deals moving forward to help their country prosper. They of course now become the center of the proxy war between NATO and Russia, but I assume their leaders are being compensated under the table with riches that the average man can only dream of.

It would be hard to say what I would do if I were the President of Ukraine. With the information I have, of course I wouldn't have gone to war. I don't have any information about how much their leader is getting promised and how much money is flowing under the table to him, so it's tough to answer the question realistically.

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Quote from: Lordhermes on February 28, 2023, 07:40:59 AM

President Zelensky made a big mistake by engaging in war with Putin, knowning too well that he can't stand Putin, I think this dispute can only be resolved through peace talk. I'm appealing to Putin and Zelensky to end the dispute for humanity sake.

The Russian side has presented unacceptable terms.

Peace talks can only be held after the Russian army withdraws from Ukraine or is destroyed in Ukraine.

This war will not end until Putin's army is pushed back out of Ukraine.

The peace talks will be held long after Putin is killed or commits suicide.

PS. If I were Putin, I would gradually withdraw my army and prepare the public for a "victory". Everyone in Russia will be more than happy
to have him end this war. He might even sell it that he is a national hero, long-term strategist, genius chess player, etc. Whatever.

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Quote from: Lordhermes on February 28, 2023, 07:40:59 AM

President Zelensky made a big mistake by engaging in war with Putin, knowning too well that he can't stand Putin, I think this dispute can only be resolved through peace talk. I'm appealing to Putin and Zelensky to end the dispute for humanity sake.

Would you also tell to rape victims that it's a big mistake to defend themselves because the rapist is stronger? That we should also listen how difficult it is for the rapist because someone put up a fight and made them hurt the victim because they didn't let him just to do what he wanted.

Because it sure sounds like you would.

Lordhermes

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President Zelensky made a big mistake by engaging in war with Putin, knowning too well that he can't stand Putin, I think this dispute can only be resolved through peace talk. I'm appealing to Putin and Zelensky to end the dispute for humanity sake.

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Quote from: Sexylizzy2813 on February 18, 2023, 05:53:27 AM

Engaging in a war that would put the lives of my citizens, my loved ones and myself in danger, as a president I can't think of going to war or start something like that instead I'll seek for advice or probably protection, first to stop the chaos that's about to begin before doing the needful. Sometimes people just look for a way to pass an ugly message that they're superior over the other by activating war, and when they are declared winner they start bragging as if that's the right thing to do.
As a president all you do is make sure your subject are happy and in a good condition, protection too. It doesn't have to be this way, in the case of Russia and Ukraine they just need to find a way to settle the whole issue between them for the sake of their citizens.

Although I am not on the side of Ukraine in this war because I know the person who caused all this is probably the US, but if it were the president of Ukraine, I would fight to the end with Russia. Because once the country is invaded, we cannot sit idly by and let the enemy come to kill us, even if we surrender, they will not leave us in peace. The other side will think that we are afraid of them, so they look down on us even more. My country was invaded by America, and they still kill our relatives even when we are civilians.

This war will not end anytime soon because self-determination is not in the hands of President Zelensky. Ukraine is like a pawn on the political chessboard of the great powers.

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Engaging in a war that would put the lives of my citizens, my loved ones and myself in danger, as a president I can't think of going to war or start something like that instead I'll seek for advice or probably protection, first to stop the chaos that's about to begin before doing the needful. Sometimes people just look for a way to pass an ugly message that they're superior over the other by activating war, and when they are declared winner they start bragging as if that's the right thing to do.
As a president all you do is make sure your subject are happy and in a good condition, protection too. It doesn't have to be this way, in the case of Russia and Ukraine they just need to find a way to settle the whole issue between them for the sake of their citizens.

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Again with Putin's narrative LOL

As if the "Ukrainian President" had a choice to not engage or to not have the war. His country was attacked. No amount of bullshit threads with loaded questions can change that fact.

paxmao

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Quote from: Odo1972 on February 13, 2023, 11:35:23 AM

After reading through some articles online I realized that despite the negative effects of war, there are still positive outcomes that can be achieved through war.
This brought my attention to the Russian Ukraine war that lasted about 1 year now.

Some positive effects that result from war include "the correction of injustices, the defeat of a problematic government, advancement in technology and medicine, and a reduction of unemployment".

1. My question now is, has Ukraine achieved any of these positive outcomes in the course of the war?

2. As President, would you engage in a war to achieve any of these positive outcomes?

"Engaging in war" - you mean defend your country?

You talk like if there was a choice - or better said - a reasonable choice. This is the old dilemma of fight or fly. Flying would mean that the country would have been in disarray or someone would have taken the reins and lead the war or that Putin would have seated another despot and millions would suffer for it. Fighting (self-defence, no "engaging in war") means that you accept there will be loses and suffering during a not known period of time and the outcome could anyway be bad.

Zelensky and the other members of government chose to defend the country, as at least if offers some hope for the future.

Quote from: OgNasty on February 14, 2023, 12:31:06 PM

I guess it would depend on what sort of agreements I had with the Biden administration. It seems the relationship is definitely inappropriate and the US is very clearly providing massive support. Without knowing the twisted set of agreements that pulled the United States into this war in the first place, it’s hard to say what I would or would not have done.

Sure, twisted arrangement such as not wanting to have the RF army at Brandenburg. Curious how you have started posting about this so close to the presidential elections...

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Would you have engaged in the war if you were the Ukrainian President?

Of course, if I were Zelensky. Because then I would love money way more than my country-people. And the US pays $good$. Besides, when I win, they will give me a share of land in the former Russian nation. Maybe they will even let me have it as my own country.

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