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Topic: WTF Auction #10 - Unique 5 BTC Hybrid Coin - Lealana & Casascius (Read 1095 times)

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 3014
Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.




  Then it goes without saying a Trezor or hardwallet will be treated in the same way.

  If it goes that way...then memorize the mnemonic seed...wipe the Trezor clean...and you have nothing to declare..then just place the mnemonic seed upon arrival at destination.

  Or even better...don't take trezor with you.....arrive at destination...buy a new trezor and input the mnemonic seed...voila!  Wink  God bless Satoshi!

This isn't relevant to transporting collectible crypto coins.  There's already many options for safely accessing your Bitcoin when traveling from country to country, you don't even need to have keys with you, you can store them encrypted in a cloud service and access them anywhere with an internet connection.  The topic here is transporting physical crypto coins.

Same difference as any cold storage item such as a coin or piece of paper no? On an episode of Billions the lead character gives an employee a funded Ledger wallet as payment. Why not just tell him to provide a wallet address to send the coins to ? Transferring it this way keeps the transaction off chain, providing the same advantages a Casascius coin does in this aspect.

As for courier shipping, Anonymous and Krogo (when active) are the way to go. If they are busy I’m open to doing so.
hero member
Activity: 679
Merit: 526
Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.




  Then it goes without saying a Trezor or hardwallet will be treated in the same way.

  If it goes that way...then memorize the mnemonic seed...wipe the Trezor clean...and you have nothing to declare..then just place the mnemonic seed upon arrival at destination.

  Or even better...don't take trezor with you.....arrive at destination...buy a new trezor and input the mnemonic seed...voila!  Wink  God bless Satoshi!

This isn't relevant to transporting collectible crypto coins.  There's already many options for safely accessing your Bitcoin when traveling from country to country, you don't even need to have keys with you, you can store them encrypted in a cloud service and access them anywhere with an internet connection.  The topic here is transporting physical crypto coins.
full member
Activity: 322
Merit: 116
Yea, I think as BTC price approaches what forum members expect, for loaded coins we will see physical delivery resembling what goes on in the rare art/jewelry/auction space. There are a few companies that solely specialize in high-end items, like Transguardian, which is used by the high-end jewelry industry.
full member
Activity: 1298
Merit: 176
Krogothmanhattan alt account
Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.




  Then it goes without saying a Trezor or hardwallet will be treated in the same way.

  If it goes that way...then memorize the mnemonic seed...wipe the Trezor clean...and you have nothing to declare..then just place the mnemonic seed upon arrival at destination.

  Or even better...don't take trezor with you.....arrive at destination...buy a new trezor and input the mnemonic seed...voila!  Wink  God bless Satoshi!
hero member
Activity: 679
Merit: 526
Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8

Who owns the property is irrelevant.  Customs declaration varies by country and it boils down to what you are carrying, not necessarily who owns it.  If you are entering the US/EU the declaration form lists "monetary instruments".  A loaded crypto collectible is effectively a bearer-negotiable monetary instrument but since countries haven't legally made that distinction yet and the forms do not specifically list "cryptocurrency", you have room for not declaring it.  Some countries have classified Bitcoin as property and you don't declare your $20,000 Rolex when entering a country.  Countries are slow and have only recently gotten around to classifying gold coins as cash.  But that doesn't mean that customs can't choose to make your life hard, including going as far as to confiscate it, forcing you to spend time/money to get it back.  Some countries are more corrupt than others.
  
Your best chance for success is for the collectible to not stand out from your other property.  I'm curious what steps the couriers here are taking to ensure the item gets through customs without drawing scrutiny.  I'm also interested to hear from people like Bobby Lee who have traveled internationally with loaded physical crypto coins.

sr. member
Activity: 541
Merit: 362
Rules not Rulers
I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.

I couldn't agree more!

iBHK8

Agreed! I think COVID is scrambling my brain, I forgot that one day I'll actually be able to leave the country again!
copper member
Activity: 441
Merit: 180
I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.

I couldn't agree more!

iBHK8
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 2419
EIN: 82-3893490
I like the idea of using couriers for the more expensive items - seems like the price of taking care of the couriers travel would be worth it considering the relative safety of worrying about regular shipping and then if something does happen having to worry about the insurance claims.

A trusted courier would be a fair solution for both parties, especially as there are a few well trusted individuals to offer that service.
copper member
Activity: 441
Merit: 180
Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?

I don't see why they would need to as it's not their property. They are simply delivering from point A to B even though they may need to hit a point C in the middle of all that. Perhaps someone else can chime in but the couriers don't own the property so I genuinely don't think they need to declare a thing. In this case, they're really no different than a FedEx or USPS guy/gal at your door delivering your package! Again just my 2bits!

iBHK8
copper member
Activity: 335
Merit: 35
Curious question for the couriers... Would you have to legally declare this coin if you're travelling with it internationally as the value is over $10,000?
copper member
Activity: 441
Merit: 180
Yeah I've been thinking about this a bit, because I really wanted it, but for this value coin I feel international shipping, and perhaps even shipping in general, is just not worth the risk. Which means coins like this will start getting peeled more and more often, which is a shame. But given the non 0% chance it gets lost/stolen in the mail, and the $2500 extra value in shit coins, I think if I was selling I would want at least a 10% premium over face value, otherwise safer to just peel. Will also make selling smaller denomination coins pretty difficult if bitcoin goes up a lot, need some kind of decentralized insurance solution with a trusted member or something. Like escrow plus. It's a market friction, which means there is value to be offered and money to made somewhere.

I hear ya on this, however I feel like for a coin of this value it's perfectly suited to hire a crypto courier such as AM, MJ or Krogoth as well as some others who are all are specialists in this field and enjoy doing it for a fair fee. Terms can be easily worked out I'm sure. Everyone I've spoken to all seem extremely reasonably minded folks. So this IMO is the perfect situation for these coins. As BTC rises it's worth hiring a courier. And if people choose not to collect their premium then they can peel therefore enhancing the value of the unpeeled coins by the day. I literally feel like this is a win win situation especially if you're more than happy with hiring a courier for the more expensive items. Just my 2bits. Peel away is fine with me too! These are all good problems to have. It's also nice that if you choose to peel you get a decent free added value from the forks. So I guess it just depends on where each individual's thresholds are. I'm more than happy to pay for a flight to ensure I get my property but that's just me. All the best to everyone!

iBHK8
sr. member
Activity: 541
Merit: 362
Rules not Rulers
Yeah I've been thinking about this a bit, because I really wanted it, but for this value coin I feel international shipping, and perhaps even shipping in general, is just not worth the risk. Which means coins like this will start getting peeled more and more often, which is a shame. But given the non 0% chance it gets lost/stolen in the mail, and the $2500 extra value in shit coins, I think if I was selling I would want at least a 10% premium over face value, otherwise safer to just peel. Will also make selling smaller denomination coins pretty difficult if bitcoin goes up a lot, need some kind of decentralized insurance solution with a trusted member or something. Like escrow plus. It's a market friction, which means there is value to be offered and money to made somewhere.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1242
Why would you sell this for less than peel value?  That's around $2200 right now.

It was a botched auction.  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 679
Merit: 526
Why would you sell this for less than peel value?  That's around $2200 right now.
hero member
Activity: 1792
Merit: 551
https://rollbit.com/referral/Agrawas
I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.
I botched it, sure enough. Per the terms of the auction, av8rjeff is the winner. I’m not even sure anyone else was going to bid though. Was anyone else planning to? Even if so, av8rjeff just say the word and it’s yours.

Not sure what happened here with timings and so many other discussions, but I was kinda interested as I PMed u too..
sr. member
Activity: 541
Merit: 362
Rules not Rulers
I was one of the people seriously considering it, but between shipping, Insurance, and the uselessness of Australian customs, it was just too much risk. Good chance I would have had to pay a 10% tax if it arrived safely. Tricky one to sell in these times, if I'd been in the USA I would have been all over it.
jr. member
Activity: 47
Merit: 11
I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.
I botched it, sure enough. Per the terms of the auction, av8rjeff is the winner. I’m not even sure anyone else was going to bid though. Was anyone else planning to? Even if so, av8rjeff just say the word and it’s yours.
member
Activity: 356
Merit: 23
I just PM'd TrWTF the same.  If by chance he doesn't catch it, I'll honor the original posted time for sure.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1757
Should still have 33 minutes left no?

4pm MT = 6pm EST = 10:00 PM Sunday utc
jr. member
Activity: 47
Merit: 11
I bid 5.00 BTC
^^ This is the winning bid. ^^

PM me your shipping information and escrow preference, and we will be in touch with the details.  Thank you!

This auction is now closed.
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