Topic: [XCR] Crypti | Dapps | Sidechains | Dapp Store | OPEN SOURCE | 100% own code | DPoS - page 122. (Read 804700 times)

D'oh, I missed that change, thanks for enlighening me.  I have modded my post / calculations above to reflect this 0.1% fee instead of 0.5% fee.  The new "bottom lines" repeated here are:  

For a Delegate to make "just" $10 in a month, the Crypti price has got to be 2.5X higher than it is now coupled with more than the entire total supply of Crypti changing hands every month.    

Another scenario is, if the monthly transaction traffic target is dropped to "only" 10M Crypti per month (a tenth of the total Crypti supply), then compensating a Delegate $10 per month requires a Crypti value of $0.112 each, or over X25 the current value.

As noted above, a delegate had better be prepared to fund a node out of his own pocket for probably many months until either Crypti prices and/or transaction volumes ramp up VERY significantly.

Any news on 0.2.0 launch? I spoke to Boris yesterday and he said he was testing it yesterday with the new fee structure. Any solid deadline on when we can expect 0.2.0 to release?

a clean ubuntu, with crypti 0.2.0 client running, uses about 177MB of ram on my node.
blockchain size is about 50mb, and the first block is recorded at 2015/03/18 , making it about 20 days old. that roughly corresponds to 2.5mb per day, but this doet not take inital setup size or anything in consideration.

Mal,

Insightfu posts as always, but I think you missed a detail on the DPOS posting a few days ago.

The fee for transactions are going to be 0.1% during DPOS.  This was changed due to input from the community.  

The 10,000 XCR cost of registering a Delegate can be recouped with the delegate sharing the fees of the delegates that register subsequently.  Every new delegate will generate 90 XCR for the 101 forging delegates.

We will also be running the Node Reward Program, Renamed the Delegate Reward Program, where we send XCR from one wallet to another to generate fees for the delegates, and to ensure the system is running correctly.

That will cut enable delegates to earn much if not all of their server fees.  Frankly, I am going to run a Delegate on my GPU miner, since it is up and running all the time anyway, and the CPU is at 8% usage.  Delegate hosting that was is free.

With XCR, unlike NODE and NXT, you can forge without owning a single XCR.  There is no minimum balance needed to forge, only enough votes from the nodes to be in the top 101.

 

They are still one of the most innovative coins out there. Others are standing still, while they are developing (even through in the wrong direction). But this thread is about Crypti.

That's why NXT has dropped from #3 to #8-#10 in market cap and why I am here instead of there.  I am interested in being involved with a coin on the way up, not down.

It's just a collective of quick money makers now, thanks to the asset exchange and the open forum rules, with dozens of scams. Something need to change in that direction, or it will be a "tour-de-force" for NXT in the future.

Yes. You are right. This is very hard through and will possibly be taken care of a 3rd party, not the core developers. But who knows, maybe we find a solution for that problem in the future.

No guarantee on this, but I think it's about 5MB every day. Remember, we have delegates, that means they will take care of the hosting. The normal user won't. So the few GB the blockchain will take, will mean NOTHING. Soon TB space is the standard.

He refilled it a few hours ago.

First of, we need DPoS to even work properly. Imagine a NXT POS algorithm which occasionally delivers a 30min blocktime. Good luck waiting for your confirmation for your coffee or the 10 confirmations to the exchange if you are in a hurry.

Only this is a huge PLUS for Crypti, we will offer constant 10sec blocks. You will never have to wait anymore for a block, you know for sure, that there will be one in 10sec. (If a delegate is bad, it will not forge and thus the next one will forge, making the blocktime 20sec.)


Regarding the other things you mentioned, just wait a month and you will be astonished.

Btw, NXT has a standard template for its client (http://cdn3.freshdesignweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Free-AdminLTE-Dashboard-and-Control-Panel.jpg) and NEM client is NOT beautiful IMHO. But they will probably enhance it in the future.

NXT had a lot of promises in the early days they retracted, mostly associated with "transparent forging" which was going to enable "1000 transactions per second".  NXT abandoned TPS as a significant goal and never pushed their coin as an alternative currency for widespread public use.  Instead, all the emphasis went to "Asset Exchange" so everybody could push get-rich-quick schemes in an unregulated sandbox "stock market".

Handling 1000 or even 100 transactions per second (TPS) would be a "killer app" nobody else has that would be totally in line with the Crypti  emphasis on commerce.  I think the DPos circle of 101 and only 101 forgers is a GREAT approach in this direction that should be leveraged for max TPS as the Crypti killer app.

Would you consider shutting down your 0.1.9 for a few days, resetting your bandwidth and memory meters to zero, and running 0.2.0 for exactly 48 hours to get some statistics?  That would be very interesting...

I was thinking yesterday about Crypti and it's low marketcap. And I found that it just has not enough "selling points" for end-user. Yes, it has some "selling points" for investors, for example:
- wonderful team
- funding
- fair long-term plans and attitude

But it hasen't to much selling points/features for XCR regular user.
NEM has:
  1) beautiful wallet design. Crypti hasn't.
NXT has:
  1) beautiful wallet design
  2) in wallet asset exchange (so regular user can speculate there)
Bitshares has:
  1) DPOS
  2) Derivatives to make and play
Qora has
  1) Voting system

Today (in 2015) the ability to send and recieve virtual tokens in 1 minute is not enough.

The first selling point for XCR is DPOS, before that XCR is just bored  

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-nxt-descendant-of-bitcoin-303898 BCNext wrote:

I know that XCR team tries to make Virtual Apps store, and before this happen, before the killer app for end-user is out, we can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

I'm now running a delegate on the testnet for three days (barie/jari76), and have not seen any exorbitant bandwidt usage from the node. the node is running both a 0.1.9g Client, and an 0.2.0 client. in the four days that the node has been running, it has used about 3.12GB of bandwith , which also includes setting up the node. keep in mind this is running both 2.0 and 0.1.9, and that the 0.1.9 one could be using a lot of that bandwith. 
The ram usage on the node is about 489 MB. this is a clean ubuntu install.

While we're waiting on historical observed 0.2.0 testnet blockchain numbers to show up here, lets also start a discussion on the economics of 0.2.0 forging.   Reference http://blog.crypti.me/introduction-to-dpos/ for the origin of the numbers used below...

Say you are a Delegate running a node and you need to make $10 per month forging to pay for your node costs.  Crypti is currently $0.004 each.  Let's say that when 0.2.0 launches the value of Crypti pops 2.5X to a penny each or $0.01 each.  As a node, to get your $10 you have to "clear" as your monthly fee cut $10/$0.01 = 1000 Crypti.   That's your take AFTER you pay a 10% "tax" to the Foundation.  In order for you to put 1000 XCR in your pocket every month you've got to take in as fees a total of 1111 Crypti, with 111 going to the Foundation and 1000 going to you.  This is true for all 101 delegates, so the total fees required to let ALL forgers break even at $10 per month is 1111 X 101 = 112,211 Crypti.  

Thus for a "breakeven month" with a $0.01 Crypti value 2.5X higher than at present, 101,000 Crypti  must be split by the 101 Delegates (who get $10 each) and the Foundation gets 11,211 Crypti worth $112.  

Initial forging fees are apparently going to be a tenth percent or 0.1%.   This means that for every 1000 Crypti processed as node traffic, the nodes pass 999 on to the recipient and keep 1 as a fee.  So for the nodes to take in 112,211 Crypti as fees, they've got to process 112,211 / 0.001 = 112.2M as Crypti traffic.

So for a Delegate to make "just" $10 in a month, the Crypti price has got to be 2.5X higher than it is now coupled with more than the entire total supply of Crypti changing hands every month.  

Note there are other combinations of these two value / traffic criteria that yield $10 per month per Delegate, but making one of them "somewhat more reasonable" makes the other one "even more unreasonable".   Thus another scenario is, if the monthly transaction traffic target is dropped to "only" 10M Crypti per month (a tenth of the total Crypti supply), then compensating a Delegate $10 per month requires a Crypti value of $0.112 each, or over X25 the current value.

These are kinda sobering numbers in my opinion.  A delegate had better be prepared to fund a node out of his own pocket for probably many months until either Crypti prices and/or transaction volumes ramp up VERY significantly.

zero fees / huge boost in Exchange value of retained Crypti holdings instead of tenth-percent fee / crummy $10 per month and probably much less forging profit>

As long as you aren't planning on forging with your client, I certainly agree!

It's much more easily Mal:

Step 1. Make usb bootable flash stick with Ubuntu Linux
Step 2. Boot into Ubuntu and do your operations
Step 3. Reboot into Windows 

My point exactly.  I am trying to shine a light on this by asking for some observed numbers to be made public before we all start off on this grand 0.2.0 adventure.  My goal as always is to quantify the need for algorithms that support both (1) no zero transaction blocks being added and (2) automatic regeneration of a genesis block when the chain reaches a certain length.

And this is the main issue with crypto. If your credit cards get stolen you can blame the banks and they'll refund you.
If your crypto keys get stolen... Well you are responsible and have to take the loss.

As long as there is no good solution for this tedious safety work, crypto will not be adopted by the masses.
If you want to make crypto be adopted, solve this part of the puzzle.