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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1635. (Read 3313576 times)

legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
November 25, 2015, 06:52:56 PM
Has this been posted already? If so, I apologize.

You can now donate Monero to the I2P.

I'll send a humble sum to support their decision.

Their link to monero goes to getmonero.com

Which is a dead link.

Shouldn't it be getmonero.org?

Can someone contact them?

I can't am away for the balance of the day.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
November 25, 2015, 05:01:04 AM
Has this been posted already? If so, I apologize.

You can now donate Monero to the I2P.

I'll send a humble sum to support their decision.

I wasn't aware of it, so thanks for the heads up. I'll send a few XMR their way. i2p ftw!
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
November 25, 2015, 04:59:58 AM
Has this been posted already? If so, I apologize.

You can now donate Monero to the I2P.

I'll send a humble sum to support their decision.

Thats good. so now one can donate to privacy oriented project using privacy oriented coin. Hope others will follow.

p.s.
ALso will send some xmr.
sr. member
Activity: 400
Merit: 263
November 25, 2015, 04:53:56 AM
Has this been posted already? If so, I apologize.

You can now donate Monero to the I2P.

I'll send a humble sum to support their decision.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008
November 24, 2015, 07:09:48 PM
I have a BTC -> XMR service ready to go. Soon you will not need to use Shapeshift.io. I anticipate the launch to be within the next 2 weeks.

Prepare for Monerizer.

Is this waiting for the 0.9 release?

Sorry for the delay. I started refactoring some things, improving the security. Then I got distracted with another project. Now I expect it to take another week or two. Soon™.



Thanks for the update, looking forward to it.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1004
November 24, 2015, 06:46:00 PM
I have a BTC -> XMR service ready to go. Soon you will not need to use Shapeshift.io. I anticipate the launch to be within the next 2 weeks.

Prepare for Monerizer.

Is this waiting for the 0.9 release?

Sorry for the delay. I started refactoring some things, improving the security. Then I got distracted with another project. Now I expect it to take another week or two. Soon™.

sr. member
Activity: 414
Merit: 251
November 24, 2015, 05:36:59 PM
Will there be another testnet? Or is the next step a tagged release?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
November 24, 2015, 02:22:01 PM

That's exactly what is accounted for in Peter R's math, and it doesn't work. There are many ways to look at why it doesn't work but one way is to recognize that the cost of an orphan comes from the block reward (cost = reward * risk). So without a reward that collapses to zero this incentive no longer applies. You can work out a more complex model where you already have N transactions in the block (with some fees) and transaction N+1 increases the orphan risk (which is what Peter R did), but you still get the same result. It doesn't work.



You mean "with a reward that collapses to zero this incentive no longer applies," right?

I meant without a reward the cost of orphans collapses to zero. What you wrote applies too of course.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
21 million. I want them all.
November 24, 2015, 02:17:02 PM

That's exactly what is accounted for in Peter R's math, and it doesn't work. There are many ways to look at why it doesn't work but one way is to recognize that the cost of an orphan comes from the block reward (cost = reward * risk). So without a reward that collapses to zero this incentive no longer applies. You can work out a more complex model where you already have N transactions in the block (with some fees) and transaction N+1 increases the orphan risk (which is what Peter R did), but you still get the same result. It doesn't work.



You mean "with a reward that collapses to zero this incentive no longer applies," right?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
November 24, 2015, 01:29:11 PM
The likely result is transaction fees would go down to zero. So now how do you secure the net work in the absence of an emission?

The block reward subsidizes all transactions until it doesn't.

Then you pay to play. Maybe the miners include your transaction and maybe they don't. If they don't, then you offer a higher transaction fee. What's the issue?

The issue is that competition among the miners will drive the price down to zero since there is no longer scarcity in the blocksize, This effectively eliminates the difficulty in POW since there is no economic incentive to mine. The small block crowd do make a valid point here.

Edit: With no blocksize limit and no emission it is to the advantage of a miner to include all transactions regardless of fee price.


With no block reward and no blocksize limit, what's the advantage of including transactions that don't offer a transaction fee? What would happen if you just removed the blocksize limit. I want to see it tested. I don't think it'll be as bad as people think.

You likely won't include too many no-fee TXs - bigger block means longer propagation time, in turn meaning more chance of an orphan.

That's exactly what is accounted for in Peter R's math, and it doesn't work. There are many ways to look at why it doesn't work but one way is to recognize that the cost of an orphan comes from the block reward (cost = reward * risk). So without a reward that collapses to zero and this incentive no longer applies. You can work out a more complex model where you already have N transactions in the block (with some fees) and transaction N+1 increases the orphan risk (which is what Peter R did), but you still get the same result. It doesn't work.

EDIT: missing word "and"
legendary
Activity: 1449
Merit: 1001
November 24, 2015, 07:40:10 AM
Heads up guys. XMR just rose to 6th place overall on Coingecko.
https://www.coingecko.com/en
Wait till the 0.9 release...
Dash is at 7 so.....not impressed....
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
November 24, 2015, 07:28:30 AM
Heads up guys. XMR just rose to 6th place overall on Coingecko.
https://www.coingecko.com/en
Wait till the 0.9 release...
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
November 24, 2015, 02:14:25 AM
It would be great if you could stop pretending Bitcoin's Layer 1 was created (and/or is able) to replace commercial banking, cash, plastic, and Starbucks gift cards while remaining diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient.  Please do the engineering.

It's hard to argue that it wasn't created for that when satoshi wrote about things like how to do zeroconf for vending machines:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3819

Or micropayments becoming practical over time as storage and bandwidth costs fall:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7687

In the subsequent years, some may have realized that isn't the best way to approach things but learning is different from revisionism.

Yes, I was just making the point that many inventors/innovators have no idea what the world will do with their better mousetraps.

Satoshi said we may have larger blocks eventually.

The trade-offs in terms of decentralization/survivability for moving ~all full nodes to data centers may be acceptable eventually.

That eventuality is not in the near or medium term future; there is zero propensity for it at present.  It only comes after Bitcoin has ensured everyone has benefited "from sane and non-inflationary financial institutions whose sanity and honesty are ensured by the holy blockchain."

Once we slay/neuter the fiat dragon and usher in an era of Cryptopia, I have no problem with most BTC nodes being run in data centers and using 8GB blocks.

Until then, any proposal which endangers Bitcoin's engineering requirement to be above the (crony capitalist) law is a non-starter and absolutely out of the question (absent some genuine emergency).

Sacrificing humanity's last, best hope to (peacefully) overthrow the Fed, BIS, and LBMA for the sake of vending machings is entirely against the social contract.  I didn't sign up just to ensure nobody ever has to wait for their tiny bag of Cool Ranch® Doritos®.   Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 1874
Merit: 840
Keep what's important, and know who's your friend
November 24, 2015, 01:05:43 AM
It would be great if you could stop pretending Bitcoin's Layer 1 was created (and/or is able) to replace commercial banking, cash, plastic, and Starbucks gift cards while remaining diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient.  Please do the engineering.

It's hard to argue that it wasn't created for that when satoshi wrote about things like how to do zeroconf for vending machines:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3819

Or micropayments becoming practical over time as storage and bandwidth costs fall:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7687

In the subsequent years, some may have realized that isn't the best way to approach things but learning is different from revisionism.



I read something a little while back about M-Pesa being mainly used in Kenya for the beneficial aspect of micro payments... Does any body have any more info on this besides the news articles that 60 minutes briefly did on it?



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/future-of-money-kenya-m-pesa-60-minutes/
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008
November 23, 2015, 08:16:59 PM
I have a BTC -> XMR service ready to go. Soon you will not need to use Shapeshift.io. I anticipate the launch to be within the next 2 weeks.

Prepare for Monerizer.

Is this waiting for the 0.9 release?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
November 23, 2015, 07:49:07 PM
Will monero implement the new BIP that will allow decentralized exchanges?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finally-opchecklocktimeverify-its-big-1248631

One day we can see a decentralized, MONERO <> BTC exchange system.

We have a very limited but similar feature already in that our nLockTime field works differently than the Bitcoin one (and more like CLTV). It isn't very useful without multisig and some other smart contract capabilities though. We're still studying how to integrate those.

Among other approaches we have looked at integrating Automated Transactions (which is available as open source and has been integrated with several other coins already), but none of it really makes sense without all the other pieces being there as well.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
November 23, 2015, 07:41:09 PM
Will monero implement the new BIP that will allow decentralized exchanges?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finally-opchecklocktimeverify-its-big-1248631


One day we can see a decentralized, MONERO <> BTC exchange system.

There are many uses for OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY but I am excited about our existing roadmap:
https://getmonero.org/design-goals/
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1009
JAYCE DESIGNS - http://bit.ly/1tmgIwK
November 23, 2015, 07:27:00 PM
Will monero implement the new BIP that will allow decentralized exchanges?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/finally-opchecklocktimeverify-its-big-1248631


One day we can see a decentralized, MONERO <> BTC exchange system.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
November 23, 2015, 07:23:02 PM
If they are using a side chain they are using an alt-coin by another name

Agree and I haven't seen any proposals for how these are even going to be done well by altcoin standards. The proposals I've seen are merged mining and a closed group of block signers.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

We're only at the beginning of the beginning.  Sidechains, CLTV, and two-way pegs are only the primitives and we have no more idea what may be possible with them than the inventors of the transistor could foresee the Sony AIBO and Girls Gone Bitcoin.

Oh no doubt. I think 'smart contracts' are the primitive more so than sidechains and two-way pegs though. Smarts contracts will likely be used for many constructions that fit together better than the current half-baked 'let's go raise a $21 million Bitcoin development warchest on this' sidechains white paper. I don't think there is anything wrong with having done that either, I just expect pivoting (Lightning is itself already a bit of a pivot for Blockstream).
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
November 23, 2015, 07:19:17 PM
If they are using a side chain they are using an alt-coin by another name

Agree and I haven't seen any proposals for how these are even going to be done well by altcoin standards. The proposals I've seen are merged mining and a closed group of block signers.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

We're only at the beginning of the beginning.  Sidechains, CLTV, and two-way pegs are only the primitives and we have no more idea what may be possible with them than the inventors of the transistor could foresee the Sony AIBO and Girls Gone Bitcoin.
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