Code:
https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/blob/master/Ring_CT.py
Haven't seen or heard from tacotime in a long time. Is he still active in XMR development?
Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1705. (Read 3313576 times)
There is a reference Python Code for Ring CT, probably easier to understand than the whitepaper
Haven't seen or heard from tacotime in a long time. Is he still active in XMR development?
Haven't seen or heard from tacotime in a long time. Is he still active in XMR development?
You've been on a losing streak with the short-term predictions, amino. And there's no shame in that. I made a terrible call in March/April. The short-term is bumpy. I'm more interested in where you see BTC and XMR post-halving. What do you think?
EDIT: Did I just become a Hero member at 490 posts?
I'll be just another "bought and paid for Hero account supporting XMR,"
EDIT: Did I just become a Hero member at 490 posts?
I'll be just another "bought and paid for Hero account supporting XMR,"
Funny you should say that. I thought I was on an amazing roll. (And have a trading record which reinforces that idea.) The EURNOK thing was really my only loser (which was pretty awful, but I was able to make up for it elsewhere). Just goes to show that telegraphic model transmission is a losing game. If you have a moment to enumerate the data points which led you to consider my short-term prediction performance to be negative, do please PM me, as it will help me tune my communication strategy, but is OT here.
I haven't been writing down your preds or anything, but I just remember you were long on wheat short term or were looking for a short-term bounce and it's just been perma-plummeting.
So to keep it ontopic, what do you think about the halving? Will it have a significant effect on XTC:USD and XBT:XMR?
You've been on a losing streak with the short-term predictions, amino. And there's no shame in that. I made a terrible call in March/April. The short-term is bumpy. I'm more interested in where you see BTC and XMR post-halving. What do you think?
EDIT: Did I just become a Hero member at 490 posts?
I'll be just another "bought and paid for Hero account supporting XMR,"
EDIT: Did I just become a Hero member at 490 posts?
I'll be just another "bought and paid for Hero account supporting XMR,"
Funny you should say that. I thought I was on an amazing roll. (And have a trading record which reinforces that idea.) The EURNOK thing was really my only loser (which was pretty awful, but I was able to make up for it elsewhere). Just goes to show that telegraphic model transmission is a losing game. If you have a moment to enumerate the data points which led you to consider my short-term prediction performance to be negative, do please PM me, as it will help me tune my communication strategy, but is OT here.
[EDIT:]
I get it. You mean my speculations on XMR pricing. Yeah, those suck. All my predictors are low correlation in XMR land.
Monkey is seeing 4 more weeks of XBTUSD strength (and likely XMRXBT weakness) before a technical turn. On the other hand, DXY strength is likely to return in 3 days time, which could nip the XBTUSD run if it is very strong -- and it is looking likely to be very strong. That would reverse the significance of the correlation, and be bullish for XMRUSD, XMRXBT alike. If that happens I might squeeze XMR, just for fun. Personally, I moved a lot today: Filled in wheat at 504.2, short GCZ5, short SPZ5, short CLZ5, short EEM, all for a 1-2 week swing. I might short EWP, EWQ as well if I see any strength over the next few days, but that seems unlikely.
You've been on a losing streak with the short-term predictions, amino. And there's no shame in that. I made a terrible call in March/April. The short-term is bumpy. I'm more interested in where you see BTC and XMR post-halving. What do you think?
EDIT: Did I just become a Hero member at 490 posts?
I'll be just another "bought and paid for Hero account supporting XMR,"
Monkey is seeing 4 more weeks of XBTUSD strength (and likely XMRXBT weakness) before a technical turn. On the other hand, DXY strength is likely to return in 3 days time, which could nip the XBTUSD run if it is very strong -- and it is looking likely to be very strong. That would reverse the significance of the correlation, and be bullish for XMRUSD, XMRXBT alike. If that happens I might squeeze XMR, just for fun. Personally, I moved a lot today: Filled in wheat at 504.2, short GCZ5, short SPZ5, short CLZ5, short EEM, all for a 1-2 week swing. I might short EWP, EWQ as well if I see any strength over the next few days, but that seems unlikely.
Is "Shen Noether" a member of bitcointalk that comes in these threads frequently? If so, could he maybe give us the low down of what everything means in the paper? I would love to learn more about what's going to happen in the future with XMR.
academic using pseudonym
Indeed, you can read about the MRL guys here -> https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/people (scroll down to The Monero Research Lab)
Is "Shen Noether" a member of bitcointalk that comes in these threads frequently? If so, could he maybe give us the low down of what everything means in the paper? I would love to learn more about what's going to happen in the future with XMR.
academic using pseudonym
Is "Shen Noether" a member of bitcointalk that comes in these threads frequently? If so, could he maybe give us the low down of what everything means in the paper? I would love to learn more about what's going to happen in the future with XMR.
Weren't the comments on his reddit thread sufficient for you? He isn't really active on bitcointalk as far as I know. I've seen him appearing in #bitcoin-wizards and he is /u/NobleSir on reddit though.
His comments:
Quote
Amounts would now be hidden so your set of potential ring partners is much larger.
&Quote
Im not an expert in zerocash, but it will mean hidden amounts, origins, and destinations, while viewkeys will still work, and of course it will still be auditable.
It's obviously a working paper (see also the 0.1 in the title), so there is still a lot of work (also taking reviewing into account) that needs to be done before this can be implemented, but it is a good step forward.
Is "Shen Noether" a member of bitcointalk that comes in these threads frequently? If so, could he maybe give us the low down of what everything means in the paper? I would love to learn more about what's going to happen in the future with XMR.
Is the CT in Monero bullish or bearish? I thought Monero Tx's were already so obfuscated as to not need something like CT.
For me personally bullish, it just adds another layer of obfuscation and protects against third parties analyzing the blockchain.
Is the CT in Monero bullish or bearish? I thought Monero Tx's were already so obfuscated as to not need something like CT.
If you are the receiver and only got 10XMR and the rest is change, you will know that I have at least 643XMR more. With CT I guess that won't happen because you will only know the amounts you received in your address and the total amount of the outputs used.
Can someone check if my reasoning is correct please?
Can someone check if my reasoning is correct please?
I think you're right (though I don't know it for a fact), since the recipient will not have the view key for the change. So the change could be pretty much anything. You don't even know if it's going to different places (something you can take a good guess at now, if there is more than one output with a particular denomination that does not go to you).
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the CT papers... why would you need to hide the amount of money each transaction is worth, if you're going to have to give the key to the merchant you're dealing with so he can see if he gets paid in full? Doesn't it just add one more step to transactions for no reason?
I don't think that makes much sense. The receiving key will always be able to know the amounts it gets because then it would not know its balance.
What I guess will happen is the receiver will not know the total amount of the inputs used.
See this transaction for example: http://moneroblocks.eu/tx/a038a7066f404db8c4528d041d60d1107e79247da27ab6376bce50af95e45b08
If you are the receiver and only got 10XMR and the rest is change, you will know that I have at least 643XMR more. With CT I guess that won't happen because you will only know the amounts you received in your address and the total amount of the outputs used.
Can someone check if my reasoning is correct please?
I attempted the paper but didn't comprehend, but all that its doing (I assume) is obfuscating the transaction quantity on the public blockchain. You obviously know how much money you receive - it will be in your wallet, coupled with one of them newfangled serialized payment IDs. Amounts just won't be observable on a block explorer like they are now.
so yeah, what papa said.
Yes, beautiful. I actually have a shot at comprehending papers like this (vs. the 20XX math versions): https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0004.pdf
Merchant shouldn't know how rich I am. What she should know is if I have enough fund to transact with her.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the CT papers... why would you need to hide the amount of money each transaction is worth, if you're going to have to give the key to the merchant you're dealing with so he can see if he gets paid in full? Doesn't it just add one more step to transactions for no reason?
I don't think that makes much sense. The receiving key will always be able to know the amounts it gets because then it would not know its balance.
What I guess will happen is the receiver will not know the total amount of the inputs used.
See this transaction for example: http://moneroblocks.eu/tx/a038a7066f404db8c4528d041d60d1107e79247da27ab6376bce50af95e45b08
If you are the receiver and only got 10XMR and the rest is change, you will know that I have at least 643XMR more. With CT I guess that won't happen because you will only know the amounts you received in your address and the total amount of the outputs used.
Can someone check if my reasoning is correct please?
I'm also following a little of what you guys are saying about the 'amount' key. Would this also allow people to show individual transactions vs. the history of an entire address?
That possibility exists already. The cryptonote whitepaper already discussed that possibility but it wasn't implemented.
Until recently, someone (I'm guessing moneromoo) changed simplewallet to be able to save the tx private key (this is optional I think. You have to tell simplewallet to start saving this). An there is this tool by luigi111 (http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/checktx.html) which lets you prove you made that transaction.
Yes moneromooo was the one who did that, as part of his work crowd funded by the forum funding system. Also, he recently added a check_tx command to simplewallet: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/429
Quote
"Amounts would now be hidden so your set of potential ring partners is much larger."
So really it would be killing two birds with one stone. Great to see some really clever guys working on increasing privacy.
The main advantage is for unusual amounts (very high or very low). For moderate amounts like 100 there are already a huge number of potential mixing partners. But it is an incremental improvement, and perhaps a very significant improvement for high value transactions.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the CT papers... why would you need to hide the amount of money each transaction is worth, if you're going to have to give the key to the merchant you're dealing with so he can see if he gets paid in full? Doesn't it just add one more step to transactions for no reason?
Both parties to a transaction would always be able to see the amounts of course. The idea of CT with or without ring sigs is to hide the amounts from third parties, while retaining visibility to the third parties of the soundness of the transactions (that sum of inputs = sum of outputs).
Large transactions of XMR are going to be a target at some point.
Yup, this makes them indistinguishable from the more routine smaller transactions.
Any 3rd party can see amounts on the block chain. This is to remove this visibility thus making the blockchain even more opaque.
Secret_key_goggles
View_key_sunglasses
Amount_key_magnifying_glass
Secret_key_goggles
View_key_sunglasses
Amount_key_magnifying_glass
Love the ELI5! Plus the fact that:
Quote
"Amounts would now be hidden so your set of potential ring partners is much larger."
So really it would be killing two birds with one stone. Great to see some really clever guys working on increasing privacy.
That really makes you not bother about a GUI or what not at all. I just want to be able to spent money online without the whole world knowing to whom, when, what amount etc. Just like with anything else really. Strange that the right of financial privacy got so much intruded.
I'm also following a little of what you guys are saying about the 'amount' key. Would this also allow people to show individual transactions vs. the history of an entire address?
That possibility exists already. The cryptonote whitepaper already discussed that possibility but it wasn't implemented.
Until recently, someone (I'm guessing moneromoo) changed simplewallet to be able to save the tx private key (this is optional I think. You have to tell simplewallet to start saving this). An there is this tool by luigi111 (http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/checktx.html) which lets you prove you made that transaction.
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