[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1724.

rangedriver

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Quote from: dEBRUYNE on October 03, 2015, 08:06:40 PM

Agree with you here, quite a peculiar statement to make in my opinion and one that should be refrained from.

Quote from: oblox on October 03, 2015, 07:56:39 PM

I don't think you are in any position to say there isn't a community or that the project failed.

I don't see what's so controversial about it.

DASH is an uncredible and consequently unstable entity and is neither respected by developers nor by investors. Exchanges are dropping it, Bitcoinwisdom no longer bothers to even maintain it, and Reddit subscriber stats are going backwards.

A lot of Darkcoin holders jumped into XMR following the apocalyptic rebrand to DASH, and much of their previous community has effectively been absorbed into the Monero community. A good thing too.

If the rumours are true, the remainder of DASH is now piling into AEON.

By the way, it's not a shameful thing to point out a coins deficits. Much of the previous Darkcoin community knew full well the flaws that revolved around their coin but didn't speak out about it. That was the source of any perceived 'conflict'.

Anyway, I speculate that the real winners are the end users.

Rant over.

dEBRUYNE

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Quote from: oblox on October 03, 2015, 07:56:39 PM

Quote from: rangedriver on October 03, 2015, 06:50:25 PM

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY?

They're not.

Dash doesn't have a community anymore so it can't be accused of fighting. (You can't fight if you don't exist.) The market traders who have temporal dash positions are engaging for the sake of self-service.

That said I really don't feel sorry for Evan that the project failed. It was poorly conceived, poor branded, and then apocalyptically rebranded.

No-one could afford to have such dangerously flawed projects in a space where we badly needed a strong counterpoint.

Simple as that.

I don't think you are in any position to say there isn't a community or that the project failed.

Agree with you here, quite a peculiar statement to make in my opinion and one that should be refrained from.

oblox

legendary

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Quote from: rangedriver on October 03, 2015, 06:50:25 PM

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY?

They're not.

Dash doesn't have a community anymore so it can't be accused of fighting. (You can't fight if you don't exist.) The market traders who have temporal dash positions are engaging for the sake of self-service.

That said I really don't feel sorry for Evan that the project failed. It was poorly conceived, poor branded, and then apocalyptically rebranded.

No-one could afford to have such dangerously flawed projects in a space where we badly needed a strong counterpoint.

Simple as that.

I don't think you are in any position to say there isn't a community or that the project failed.

smooth

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I deleted the "Monero is a scam" message and a few replies to it, as that one explicitly violates the topic starter rules. I'm being extremely loose in interpretation to say that "Why do Monero and DASH fight" is not 100% off topic, but let's wind down that mostly off-topic discussion too

Quote from: smooth on August 23, 2014, 07:54:48 AM

Non-substantive comments such as Monero sucks, Monero is a scam, Monero is great, Monero to the moon, etc. are considered off topic. Every post and reply should add to the discussion.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 04:34:22 PM

Quote from: smoothie on October 03, 2015, 03:39:55 PM

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY? WHY THEY DONT LIKE FROM EACH OTHER?

I don't see any fighting.

Are you blind?

Quote from: smoothie on October 03, 2015, 03:39:55 PM

Mostly just calling out a spade for being a spade.

it s not call a spade a spade it s just FUD

Quote from: smoothie on October 03, 2015, 03:39:55 PM

Btw this is borderline off topic.

Report me.

FUD = Fear Uncertainty Doubt

Neither of which are anything you explained above. Smooth perhaps you may want to remove this user's posts in this thread?

dEBRUYNE

legendary

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Quote from: Harpua on October 03, 2015, 06:31:32 PM

Quote from: kazuki49 on October 03, 2015, 04:59:30 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on October 03, 2015, 04:48:53 PM

... but there remains the issue of Satoshi dying and creating a massive capital gains / estate tax liability. When it comes to Satoshi's coins I am far more concerned about Satoshi's estate than Satoshi.

Satoshis coin are forever a dark cloud hanging over the markest, I think he deserves his fortune but it is what it is, like any coin with premine or instamine these coin could be dumped at any time, we can't ever be sure if he still has the private keys or someone else is or will be in possession of them and will ever move or dump the coins, it is an eternal state of uncertainty.

Idk if I remember correctly, but I remember seeing a thread somewhere on here that Satoshi actually did move his coins... Is there any validity to this?

That was a bug from one of the block explorers where a fake transaction hash got injected and subsequently approved because their script was buggy. Obviously fake, since no other block explorers were showing the transcation.

@Melbustus: Regarding Satoshi's coins, I dug up a past reply of mine that perfectly suits the current scenario with his coins as well:

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on August 04, 2015, 11:09:47 AM

Monero has the advantage that, unlike with Bitcoin, you can't track the blockchain for incoming deposits at exchanges nor measure the amount of Bitcoin days destroyed. I've witnessed multiple occasions where people started dumping based on Bitcoin days destroyed.

rangedriver

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Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY?

They're not.

Dash doesn't have a community anymore so it can't be accused of fighting. (You can't fight if you don't exist.) The market traders who have temporal dash positions are engaging for the sake of self-service.

That said I really don't feel sorry for Evan that the project failed. It was poorly conceived, poor branded, and then apocalyptically rebranded.

No-one could afford to have such dangerously flawed projects in a space where we badly needed a strong counterpoint.

Simple as that.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: kazuki49 on October 03, 2015, 04:59:30 PM

Satoshis coin are forever a dark cloud hanging over the markest, I think he deserves his fortune but it is what it is, like any coin with premine or instamine these coin could be dumped at any time, we can't ever be sure if he still has the private keys or someone else is or will be in possession of them and will ever move or dump the coins, it is an eternal state of uncertainty.

Satoshi's 'Sword of Damocles' coins may help discourage or tamp down irrational exuberance, perhaps making price growth less speculative and more solid.

In any case, the overwrought FUD about them ignores how antifragility works. IE, they will either kill Bitcoin or make it stronger. And they aren't going to kill Bitcoin, so....

Cool

Harpua

full member

Activity: 224

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Spastic dead-eyed hound.

Quote from: kazuki49 on October 03, 2015, 04:59:30 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on October 03, 2015, 04:48:53 PM

... but there remains the issue of Satoshi dying and creating a massive capital gains / estate tax liability. When it comes to Satoshi's coins I am far more concerned about Satoshi's estate than Satoshi.

Satoshis coin are forever a dark cloud hanging over the markest, I think he deserves his fortune but it is what it is, like any coin with premine or instamine these coin could be dumped at any time, we can't ever be sure if he still has the private keys or someone else is or will be in possession of them and will ever move or dump the coins, it is an eternal state of uncertainty.

Idk if I remember correctly, but I remember seeing a thread somewhere on here that Satoshi actually did move his coins... Is there any validity to this?

kazuki49

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Quote from: ArticMine on October 03, 2015, 04:48:53 PM

... but there remains the issue of Satoshi dying and creating a massive capital gains / estate tax liability. When it comes to Satoshi's coins I am far more concerned about Satoshi's estate than Satoshi.

Satoshi's coins are forever a dark cloud hanging over the markets, I think he deserves his fortune but it is what it is, like any coin with premine or instamine these coins could be dumped at any time, we can't ever be sure if he still has the private keys or someone else is or will be in possession of them and will ever move or dump the coins, it is an eternal state of uncertainty.

illodin

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Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY? WHY THEY DONT LIKE FROM EACH OTHER?

Because some think the reason Monero isn't going anywhere is DASH.

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: Melbustus on October 03, 2015, 04:37:26 PM

...

Agree on both counts, unfortunately.

Unfortunately because Satoshi's coins are indeed a negative for the ecosystem. People need to trust that:
1) Satoshi won't just dump 'em for diversification (I personally doubt it)
2) Satoshi won't dump 'em for some other reason (ie, he goes insane, finds himself under duress, etc)
3) His keys don't get hacked
4) He doesn't ultimately pass the stash on to others who are less ideologically-motivated and less careful than he seems to be

In short, it seems clear that the ecosystem would be better off without having to worry about the above, even if they're only tiny concerns.

... but there remains the issue of Satoshi dying and creating a massive capital gains / estate tax liability. When it comes to Satoshi's coins I am far more concerned about Satoshi's estate than Satoshi.

generalizethis

legendary

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 04:34:22 PM

it s not call a spade a spade it s just FUD

Masternodes are bad for privacy and a 1.5 million instamine shouldn't allow you to post "No Premine" on all your media without someone calling you out for BS. So as soon as dash stops calling itself anonymous (or fixes its anonymity issues) and stops bullshitting people who are looking for a fairly launched coin with their semantic-contortions of "No Premine," I'll stop pointing out their falsehoods. Until then it's the truth, so deal with it.

And to get us (kinda) back on topic, I speculate a few others feel the same.

Melbustus

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 03, 2015, 03:37:34 PM

Quote from: Melbustus on October 03, 2015, 02:33:51 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 03, 2015, 11:35:18 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 03, 2015, 03:01:28 AM

The argument has been made by quite a few people that satoshi's alleged stash is a cloud over the market since he could decide to start selling it at any unknown time.

Satoshi could also decide to reinvest his stash back into Bitcoin R&D, education, marketing, bootstrapping, etc.

Imagine the headlines if He started to pay people (in highly-collectible OG Bitcoins) to teach farmers/tutors/doctors/unbanked/emigrants how to use Bitcoin!

Dunno. The best way for him to "spend" his coins might be if they went in a single tx to "1LongLiveBitcoin..." (or otherwise visibly destroyed). I do think the market-overhang is an issue, and that's the only way to completely resolve it.
[ can you imagine what the bitcoin-days-destroyed chart would look like? heh... ]

Another (quite longtail) option: if bitcoin continues to gain traction, give govs each a key to an M of N address and ship the 1M BTC to that address as a global "stability fund". That'd provide some traditional "elasticity" and central management to the bitcoin money supply (which obviously govs will demand), but keeps it decidedly limited. They'd probably blow the 1M BTC pretty quickly anyway and then bitcoin would be even more embedded into the global economy (and still limited supply and transparent).

If Satoshi wanted to destroy his coins he'd have done it by now, and "govs" are the last entities to which He would entrust Bitcoin.

With tree signatures, Satoshi could allow ~everyone to vote on if/how they are used....

Agree on both counts, unfortunately.

Unfortunately because Satoshi's coins are indeed a negative for the ecosystem. People need to trust that:
1) Satoshi won't just dump 'em for diversification (I personally doubt it)
2) Satoshi won't dump 'em for some other reason (ie, he goes insane, finds himself under duress, etc)
3) His keys don't get hacked
4) He doesn't ultimately pass the stash on to others who are less ideologically-motivated and less careful than he seems to be

In short, it seems clear that the ecosystem would be better off without having to worry about the above, even if they're only tiny concerns.

olcaytu2005

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Quote from: smoothie on October 03, 2015, 03:39:55 PM

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY? WHY THEY DONT LIKE FROM EACH OTHER?

I don't see any fighting.

Are you blind?

Quote from: smoothie on October 03, 2015, 03:39:55 PM

Mostly just calling out a spade for being a spade.

it s not call a spade a spade it s just FUD

Quote from: smoothie on October 03, 2015, 03:39:55 PM

Btw this is borderline off topic.

Report me.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: olcaytu2005 on October 03, 2015, 03:32:59 PM

WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY? WHY THEY DONT LIKE FROM EACH OTHER?

I don't see any fighting.

Mostly just calling out a spade for being a spade.

Btw this is borderline off topic.

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Melbustus on October 03, 2015, 02:33:51 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 03, 2015, 11:35:18 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 03, 2015, 03:01:28 AM

The argument has been made by quite a few people that satoshi's alleged stash is a cloud over the market since he could decide to start selling it at any unknown time.

Satoshi could also decide to reinvest his stash back into Bitcoin R&D, education, marketing, bootstrapping, etc.

Imagine the headlines if He started to pay people (in highly-collectible OG Bitcoins) to teach farmers/tutors/doctors/unbanked/emigrants how to use Bitcoin!

Dunno. The best way for him to "spend" his coins might be if they went in a single tx to "1LongLiveBitcoin..." (or otherwise visibly destroyed). I do think the market-overhang is an issue, and that's the only way to completely resolve it.
[ can you imagine what the bitcoin-days-destroyed chart would look like? heh... ]

Another (quite longtail) option: if bitcoin continues to gain traction, give govs each a key to an M of N address and ship the 1M BTC to that address as a global "stability fund". That'd provide some traditional "elasticity" and central management to the bitcoin money supply (which obviously govs will demand), but keeps it decidedly limited. They'd probably blow the 1M BTC pretty quickly anyway and then bitcoin would be even more embedded into the global economy (and still limited supply and transparent).

If Satoshi wanted to destroy his coins he'd have done it by now, and "govs" are the last entities to which He would entrust Bitcoin.

With tree signatures, Satoshi could allow ~everyone to vote on if/how they are used....

olcaytu2005

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WHY DASH AND MONERO COMMUNITY FIGHT CONSISTENTLY? WHY THEY DONT LIKE FROM EACH OTHER?

Melbustus

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 03, 2015, 11:35:18 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 03, 2015, 03:01:28 AM

The argument has been made by quite a few people that satoshi's alleged stash is a cloud over the market since he could decide to start selling it at any unknown time.

Satoshi could also decide to reinvest his stash back into Bitcoin R&D, education, marketing, bootstrapping, etc.

Imagine the headlines if He started to pay people (in highly-collectible OG Bitcoins) to teach farmers/tutors/doctors/unbanked/emigrants how to use Bitcoin!

Dunno. The best way for him to "spend" his coins might be if they went in a single tx to "1LongLiveBitcoin..." (or otherwise visibly destroyed). I do think the market-overhang is an issue, and that's the only way to completely resolve it.
[ can you imagine what the bitcoin-days-destroyed chart would look like? heh... ]

Another (quite longtail) option: if bitcoin continues to gain traction, give govs each a key to an M of N address and ship the 1M BTC to that address as a global "stability fund". That'd provide some traditional "elasticity" and central management to the bitcoin money supply (which obviously govs will demand), but keeps it decidedly limited. They'd probably blow the 1M BTC pretty quickly anyway and then bitcoin would be even more embedded into the global economy (and still limited supply and transparent).

iCEBREAKER

legendary

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: chennan on October 03, 2015, 12:50:52 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on October 03, 2015, 11:35:18 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 03, 2015, 03:01:28 AM

The argument has been made by quite a few people that satoshi's alleged stash is a cloud over the market since he could decide to start selling it at any unknown time.

Satoshi could also decide to reinvest his stash back into Bitcoin R&D, education, marketing, bootstrapping, etc.

Imagine the headlines if He started to pay people (in highly-collectible OG Bitcoins) to teach farmers/tutors/doctors/unbanked/emigrants how to use Bitcoin!

I really don't think it will make the "headlines" you're thinking about, when it comes to mainstream news picking up on it... but in the bitcoin community it would be huge news. But why would he pay people to "teach" them how to use his coin? That doesn't really make any sense.

Satoshi could pay people who DO know how to use Bitcoin to teach those who DO NOT. The more the merrier, because of the network effect.

It would make sense financially (as well as ideologically) to spend half his coins on education/outreach if the new user influx at least doubled the value of the remaining half.

The MSM loves a good story, especially ones about our mysterious founder. Should He choose to become the world's wealthiest anonymous philanthropist, the hype would be bigger than Gox+Silkroad+Dorian+$1200ATH put together.

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1724. (Read 3313576 times)