Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1919. (Read 3313485 times)

So true. Haha

Inside our tiny bubble it's easy to forget just how little the average person gives a shit about the evils of our current monetary system.

Not that anyone would want to fuss with crypto even if they did care. It's inconvenient to get, inconvenient to use, and offers little incentive to the regular old dude who just wants to swipe his credit card and get on with life.

The idea that incentivizing people to hold somehow improves the success of crypto is absurd and a rather narrow perspective in my opinion. A successful currency is one that people use (read: spend), not one that everybody collectively sits on and waits for the value to increase. That's not a currency at all.

Many of us refer to Bitcoin and Monero as cryptocurrencies but we don't actually want them to be currencies. We just want the market cap to go up to infinity so we can get richer and buy more stupid shit we don't need.

The sad irony is that the prices will never reach "the moon" until we stop serving ourselves and start focusing on improving the lives of everyone else.

TL;DR: Currencies are about commerce. Let's focus on improving that. Approaching crypto from an investor perspective and focusing on ROI will never get the rest of the world to start using it. An increasing market cap is a symptom of success, but if that's our goal then we're doing it wrong.

that's how common knowledge works...until it doesn't.

 :)All information here is so nice. Thanks for posting here.

Perhaps Monerror?  or Boner -o

x-post--reddit has a Monero market page  

www.reddit.com/r/moneromarkets/

Now we just need a buttcoin clone to know we've made it! I suggest Morono, Blocka.

Sooo I just read all the drama between DRK / Otah dumping / Smooth.

Two comments.

A.  If the roles were reversed (XMR had higher market cap with massive deceptive (per DRK's opinion) instamine) - trolling from DRK crowd would be much worse in XMR than XMR trolling is in DRK.  

B.  I see no issue raising the cons of a coin more than once or having extended discussions about it.  You have any clue how many people have lost their shirts so a few could get rich in this space?  For every 1 that's made money there are 10 that have lost.  Usually from not knowing the entire story behind pump and dump groups, shadowy devs, premines, technology that was not what it claimed to be, etc.

The more accessible the truth is for the masses about the weakness in each crypto then that's a good thing.  The whales who get pissy when the narrative of their coin is attacked (this goes for Risto & friends as much as anyone) need to get the f*** over it.  Quit being a crybaby.

If these get big, they become banks, and they won't serve the unbanked. They're slipping under the regulatory radar by being small (and somewhat, new) now is all.

I've never used a prediction market ever. They don't appeal to me. Someone else would have to evaluate the possible demand. I'm terrible at assessing demand. For example, I thought demand for sound money such as bitcoin would be huge given how pervasive and insidious the counterfeiting of fiat currencies is. It turns out that people don't really care that much.

I don't think it would be hard to create a market like that. Here's a simple model where users create their own bets and are in charge of the payouts, time-length, and rules: https://www.betmoose.com/bets In full-disclosure I'm head of MMA promotions and marketing for the site--still don't know how or why.

Why couldn't we have something similar dedicated to Monero?

I think a prediction market is very good. If we are betting on an event that occurs next year, we both need to send XMR to the market and it's held there for a year.
That fits the bill exactly. But BTC prediction markets are already well-entrenched.

Alternative 3: Use an exchange as a bank. There are zero fees incurred by keeping USD or EUR on a  Bitfinex, Bitstamp, Kraken, Btcchina, etc. account
For example, an Argentine will hold his money in the form of bitfinexUSD on bitfinex on his smartphone. Then, when he needs to spend money, he buys the necessary amount of BTC and sends it to the merchant. Then the merchant immediately sells the BTC on his smartphone for krakenEUR or whatever he wants to hold.
Advantages: No volatility risk
Disadvantages: Counterparty risk of exchange failure (though this can be mitigated by spreading cash out among multiple exchanges)

Alternative 4: Hold and use bitUSD/nubits/ethereum USD-stable smart contract/etc.
Advantages: No volatility
Disadvantages: Systemic failure (black swan collapse) probably inevitable at some point

Alternative 5: User-issued, real-world redeemable USD tokens on OpenTransactions/Counterparty/NXT/etc.
Advantages: No volatility.
Disadvantages: Counterparty risk of issuer being a fraud

Alt #1 is paper cash (which can be used with western union or informal money transfer a.k.a. hawala)
Alt #2 is holding bitcoin/xmr for extended periods of time

Personally, I think people are most likely to use a combination of Alternative #1 and Alternative #3.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, but people will most likely see one that is superior in ROI and start using it which will increase the price which will increase ROI which will increase the price.... I predict that (and please save this) more and more masternode coins will come out and we will have the same lemmingesque jumping from coin to coin as we do with P&D at the moment. Reasons: people like profit, people get bored, people like the new, the innovative, the catch phrase, the shinier apple with the smaller worm inside, the next great rush....

Somehow doubting is not a convincing argument. I somehow doubted anyone would want follow anyone on twitter, but in hindsight I missed the obvious business and media implications along with famous people using it as a fanboy gathering device (the latter I still think need their own lives, but whatever).

I may be wrong, but that seems like the biggest threat to the current market of dash--if it ever gets to Bitcoin status, it will have a whole other set of problems courtesy of LEAs, the media (that's a ponzi label that can stick courtesy of amway nodes) and the flawed economic model that Artic Mine so eloquently pointed out.

But lets get back to Monero: what would you suggest as a good way to keep Monero held and have a good long-term ROI? I'd like a XMR derivative fund, but only if Risto was the custodian.

My take is that borrowed stake is the Achilles Heel of any proof of stake system, since once has stake and no exposure. With masternodes the problem is compounded since there is a minimum capital threshold in order make a return and this creates a perverse incentive for borrowed stake. Let us say the masternode return is 25%. A "banker" can then offer say 15% on amounts below the masternode threshold commingle the funds and invest the borrowed funds at a 25% gross return in masternodes. The larger the "bank" becomes the higher the net return for the "bank" since the left over amount that is two small for an additional masternode becomes a smaller portion of the over all portfolio. The result is one or more very large "banks" with a huge "stake" with the corresponding decision making power, and little or no exposure. This is what caused the near collapse of the US banking system in 2008.

Edit:  I actually consider over the long term the threat of borrowed stake on masternodes to be much more serious than the fratricidal attacks Fluffypony pointed out.

Although ideal, the XMR prediction market need not be decentalized.  An onion or i2p site would work fine too.

A decentralized prediction market (like http://www.augur.net/) could be an important use-case for an anonymous coin. You'd get better predictions on controversial topics if users' privacy were protected. Is a Truthcoin-like project doable with Monero?

I'm not sure there is a third alternative.

I don't agree the unbanked will use bitpay or circle or coinbase. If they do that they would be banked. There is a reason they aren't banked.

Why does it have to be one or the other? I've looked into other coins with masternodes, but haven't found any that I've liked. If in the future someone uses masternodes to do something interesting and useful, I'd consider buying in. Yes, the masternode system does create a perverse incentive for node operators to attack each other, as Fluffypony pointed out, but I somehow doubt that this will manifest on a large scale.

Brilliant idea; would love to see an XMR equivalent!

im still watching this closely... we'll she how she end up. Either dead or #2 on market cap. I don't se a middle.