Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1948. (Read 3314330 times)
Bitcoin and anoncoins are two different systems. Bitcoin is shared global ledger, and for example, Monero is anonymous paying mechanism.
I was about to write a reply similar to this but i realized while writing it that it isnt actually correct. I was preparing this awsome analogy of needing to pull out a microscope at the 7-11 to make sure your change didnt have any cocaine residue on it. But I think it would actually be quite easy to check bitcoins against some government blacklisted database. So it wasnt really an apt analogy.
Of course there are other problems with this. The possibility for tyranny resulting from the governments ability to simply "turn off" your money. But i digress.
and which government blacklist you want to check?
americans: needed, because they think their law is global
your local one: needed, thats obvious
...and how fast is this check?
if i'd steal a huge amount and my exit-strategy includes something like shapeshift i would do it immediatly before the tx in question even could get blacklisted.
and blacklisting is another problem..
done on mining level: which jurisdication? all or we risk a network split.
at a user / shop level: how deep is this check? is it enough to just sent that tx to a new address or do i need to do it multiple times?
is fungibility of ALL bitcoins really important though?
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
if something is not fungible a shop cant accept it without extensive checking if its ok.
imagine eg a bitstamp hack. coins immediatly send to shapeshift and converted to xmr.
now shapeshift has a problem. shapeshift is a little bigger and can deal with this, but a small shop cant.
another point to consider: many jurisdication require to return stolen goods (eg when a car is stolen and sold by the thief the new owner must give it back). if lawyers come to the conclusion (and it seems they already thinking in that direction) that bitcoin is not fungible they might require shapeshif in the example above to return the "stolen" bitcoin - just leaving them with the option to sue the thief themselves (means: they are fucked).
so fungiblility is absolutely necessary for money.
However, it will still be a setback since it makes it more inconvenient and possibly more expensive to transact in bitcoin with protection.
is fungibility of ALL bitcoins really important though?
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
if something is not fungible a shop cant accept it without extensive checking if its ok.
imagine eg a bitstamp hack. coins immediatly send to shapeshift and converted to xmr.
now shapeshift has a problem. shapeshift is a little bigger and can deal with this, but a small shop cant.
another point to consider: many jurisdication require to return stolen goods (eg when a car is stolen and sold by the thief the new owner must give it back). if lawyers come to the conclusion (and it seems they already thinking in that direction) that bitcoin is not fungible they might require shapeshif in the example above to return the "stolen" bitcoin - just leaving them with the option to sue the thief themselves (means: they are fucked).
so fungiblility is absolutely necessary for money.
I was about to write a reply similar to this but i realized while writing it that it isnt actually correct. I was preparing this awsome analogy of needing to pull out a microscope at the 7-11 to make sure your change didnt have any cocaine residue on it. But I think it would actually be quite easy to check bitcoins against some government blacklisted database. So it wasnt really an apt analogy.
Of course there are other problems with this. The possibility for tyranny resulting from the governments ability to simply "turn off" your money. But i digress.
is fungibility of ALL bitcoins really important though?
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
if something is not fungible a shop cant accept it without extensive checking if its ok.
imagine eg a bitstamp hack. coins immediatly send to shapeshift and converted to xmr.
now shapeshift has a problem. shapeshift is a little bigger and can deal with this, but a small shop cant.
another point to consider: many jurisdication require to return stolen goods (eg when a car is stolen and sold by the thief the new owner must give it back). if lawyers come to the conclusion (and it seems they already thinking in that direction) that bitcoin is not fungible they might require shapeshif in the example above to return the "stolen" bitcoin - just leaving them with the option to sue the thief themselves (means: they are fucked).
so fungiblility is absolutely necessary for money.
is fungibility of ALL bitcoins really important though?
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
Consider that you own 50,000 bitcoins. If 1,000,000 bitcoins were found to be in the hands of ISIS, and blacklisted, what would that do to your bitcoins? Well, how would that be different, from 1,000,000 bitcoins that are simply lost forever? That some bitcoins are no longer fungible/available doesn't harm your coins in any way. In fact, it would benefit you, since the less coins in existence, the more valuable your coins are.
The only thing would be if blacklisting of coins is backtracked (dunno the term so I invented one). What I mean is, say you did business with a company, and your coins are connected to their addresses. That company then proceeds to scam people and engage in terrorist activity say a year later.
In such cases, I think that there would be laws that would prevent your coins from being blacklisted. It shouldn't be difficult to see that your coins were obtained before the time they engaged in illegal activities, or at least before the public was aware that they were engaged in illegal activities. In such cases, I would think that there would be laws preventing those coins from being blacklisted.
So unless you are planning to do something illegal yourself, other people's coins being not fungible doesn't harm your coins. It makes yours more valuable.
OK, so I don't know if this is OT or not but here goes.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
I am very curious as to how many monero holders take this stance. Are you "All in" or do you hold some xbt?
I know it's heresy to ask how much btc deep these "all in"ers (or anyone) are as it infers approximate xmr holdings, but my curiosity begs the question still.
I don't believe in BTC and won't even be bothered to call it XBT as most of the world doesn't know or even care what XBT means and barely knows what BTC means. I think it's retarded to try to rename something that is just getting a foothold in peoples mind. But I think XBT (happy?) will be gone in under a decade as the Blockchain will (If it hasn't already) be completely mapped and when that happens then All hell will break loose as LEA and Lawyers will be going apeshit over who owns what. It's already been shown by Coins being blacklisted from exchanges and gateways like coinbase collecting user info, the writing is on the wall.
Nomenclature semantics aside, I simply find interest in the motivations of different xmr investors. I share many of your concerns for btc (happy?,
) and have gravitated to Monero for similar reasons. I believe bitcoins fungibility is fundamentally broken. It's development has also failed to remain agile, miserably. However I still see significant gains to be made down the road. I still hold a strong belief that for Monero to make it, bitcoin has to make it first. The public will be too cynical of cryptocurrencies if bitcoin fails. If crypto is to happen, it rather needs to succeed then fade into the background as something superior takes over. Otherwise I think some kind of state sponsored cryptocurrency may be the more likely outcome.EDIT: Don't want to be OT. Looks like 0.003 is quite determined to be the price of monero right now.
All of this. BTC is broken to me, but I still expect and, I suspect, require it to soar for a time before the masses realize its dangers and limitations. Before this happens Monero needs to strengthen and grow in preparation for the exodus from BTC
Yes, cryptocurrencies become more useful as their liquidity goes up. And their liquidity should increase as they become more useful.
It seems we're currently experiencing this feedback loop in the reverse.
It seems we're currently experiencing this feedback loop in the reverse.
It very much looks like that the 40k XMR support is real.
Though we have tried 280 price so many times that it is about time for it to fall, I am still uncertain if it will happen now or not. At least that 40k someone needs to sell first.
If we turn up now, it is a tremendous show of force and a buy signal (provided that you can buy at a reasonable price, let's say <330). If we turn down, I have the intuition that the immediate collapse to 180 that everyone hopes might not be happening. There are support levels in between. It's just that in the very big picture, the price has clearly liked <200 and >300 more than the area in between.
The reason why I write so little here is that the important things don't change that quickly. Monero is still very undervalued even at 0.01. Tbh even 1000x the current price is not near the potential of the currency and does not allow its full utility. The adoption of a cryptocurrency has strong positive feedback loops that can surprise everyone.
Though we have tried 280 price so many times that it is about time for it to fall, I am still uncertain if it will happen now or not. At least that 40k someone needs to sell first.
If we turn up now, it is a tremendous show of force and a buy signal (provided that you can buy at a reasonable price, let's say <330). If we turn down, I have the intuition that the immediate collapse to 180 that everyone hopes might not be happening. There are support levels in between. It's just that in the very big picture, the price has clearly liked <200 and >300 more than the area in between.
The reason why I write so little here is that the important things don't change that quickly. Monero is still very undervalued even at 0.01. Tbh even 1000x the current price is not near the potential of the currency and does not allow its full utility. The adoption of a cryptocurrency has strong positive feedback loops that can surprise everyone.
The bolded part is important, and what people miss. In regards to btc and in regards to all other coins. I question the people claiming price stability around these levels (btc or xmr) and still claiming "utility". Not many serious in size financial transactions can be made today.
OK, so I don't know if this is OT or not but here goes.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
I am very curious as to how many monero holders take this stance. Are you "All in" or do you hold some xbt?
I know it's heresy to ask how much btc deep these "all in"ers (or anyone) are as it infers approximate xmr holdings, but my curiosity begs the question still.
I don't believe in BTC and won't even be bothered to call it XBT as most of the world doesn't know or even care what XBT means and barely knows what BTC means. I think it's retarded to try to rename something that is just getting a foothold in peoples mind. But I think XBT (happy?) will be gone in under a decade as the Blockchain will (If it hasn't already) be completely mapped and when that happens then All hell will break loose as LEA and Lawyers will be going apeshit over who owns what. It's already been shown by Coins being blacklisted from exchanges and gateways like coinbase collecting user info, the writing is on the wall.
Nomenclature semantics aside, I simply find interest in the motivations of different xmr investors. I share many of your concerns for btc (happy?,
) and have gravitated to Monero for similar reasons. I believe bitcoins fungibility is fundamentally broken. It's development has also failed to remain agile, miserably. However I still see significant gains to be made down the road. I still hold a strong belief that for Monero to make it, bitcoin has to make it first. The public will be too cynical of cryptocurrencies if bitcoin fails. If crypto is to happen, it rather needs to succeed then fade into the background as something superior takes over. Otherwise I think some kind of state sponsored cryptocurrency may be the more likely outcome.EDIT: Don't want to be OT. Looks like 0.003 is quite determined to be the price of monero right now.
I don't disagree, I did not mean to sound like I think BTC will crach and burn. I just see it going the LTC route albeit slowly as it is not an abandoned project. I think Bagholders will be looking to diversify and that is one reason XMR got a nice shot in the arm recently and I fully expect that to continue. As time passes holders will continue to see the threads come apart and will inevitably drift toward XMR and/or other alternatives. AFA the bolded statement, I cannot see any scenario where that will happen. The writing is on the wall and the only reason it will not be a quick death is large holders (and stubborn true believers) will shore up their investments as they divest.
To address the "motivations of different xmr investors" I cannot speak for others but mine is simply the belief that it is needed for a free society and anything supporting that goal is where you will find me.
OK, so I don't know if this is OT or not but here goes.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
...What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
Today the btc I had on Polo vanished
I did however find more Monero there.
...LOL, Thx.
OK, so I don't know if this is OT or not but here goes.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
Disclaimer: I am clueless
I think btc is near it's low now. A couple of days ago it seemed the majority was expecting a long squeeze with prices dropping below 200. On Monday I scraped together some fiat and bought btc @225. Then when people started talking I scraped a little bit more together in case there was a squeeze even I thought it probably wouldn't happen.
Today the btc I had on Polo vanished
I did however find more Monero there.
Tomorrow is the 18th somewhere in the world. I will donate a small amount to the devs in celebration of Monero's first brthday
I expect the DB (the idiot proof one
) on the 19th. 
OK, so I don't know if this is OT or not but here goes.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
I am very curious as to how many monero holders take this stance. Are you "All in" or do you hold some xbt?
I know it's heresy to ask how much btc deep these "all in"ers (or anyone) are as it infers approximate xmr holdings, but my curiosity begs the question still.
I don't believe in BTC and won't even be bothered to call it XBT as most of the world doesn't know or even care what XBT means and barely knows what BTC means. I think it's retarded to try to rename something that is just getting a foothold in peoples mind. But I think XBT (happy?) will be gone in under a decade as the Blockchain will (If it hasn't already) be completely mapped and when that happens then All hell will break loose as LEA and Lawyers will be going apeshit over who owns what. It's already been shown by Coins being blacklisted from exchanges and gateways like coinbase collecting user info, the writing is on the wall.
It very much looks like that the 40k XMR support is real.
Though we have tried 280 price so many times that it is about time for it to fall, I am still uncertain if it will happen now or not. At least that 40k someone needs to sell first.
If we turn up now, it is a tremendous show of force and a buy signal (provided that you can buy at a reasonable price, let's say <330). If we turn down, I have the intuition that the immediate collapse to 180 that everyone hopes might not be happening. There are support levels in between. It's just that in the very big picture, the price has clearly liked <200 and >300 more than the area in between.
The reason why I write so little here is that the important things don't change that quickly. Monero is still very undervalued even at 0.01. Tbh even 1000x the current price is not near the potential of the currency and does not allow its full utility. The adoption of a cryptocurrency has strong positive feedback loops that can surprise everyone.
Though we have tried 280 price so many times that it is about time for it to fall, I am still uncertain if it will happen now or not. At least that 40k someone needs to sell first.
If we turn up now, it is a tremendous show of force and a buy signal (provided that you can buy at a reasonable price, let's say <330). If we turn down, I have the intuition that the immediate collapse to 180 that everyone hopes might not be happening. There are support levels in between. It's just that in the very big picture, the price has clearly liked <200 and >300 more than the area in between.
The reason why I write so little here is that the important things don't change that quickly. Monero is still very undervalued even at 0.01. Tbh even 1000x the current price is not near the potential of the currency and does not allow its full utility. The adoption of a cryptocurrency has strong positive feedback loops that can surprise everyone.
OK, so I don't know if this is OT or not but here goes.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
What's your opinions on BTC next stable price? I will have to be buying in again and obviously want to grab BTC as low as possible as it's nothing more than a vehicle to XMR for me.
It's more of a waiting game than anything in terms of massive increases in price due to inflation yet to absorb. There will be a point, however, when the emissions will have little effect on supporting the price but it's anyone's guess where the price will be when that level hits. There are definitely whales waiting for large orders to be dumped into and large orders to pop up on the sell side trying to manipulate the orderbook to snag.
Theres nothing to apologize, I'm speculating as well
not going to lie saying I fully trust 100% of people say in either places
not going to lie saying I fully trust 100% of people say in either places
There is when you're stating incorrect facts (I was buying at 0..04) as an argument against my points...
I'm not really interested in what you says that much, it was just a comment from what I vaguely remembered, after Truecryptonaire posts I have a small suspicious most people are using this thread to manipulate feelings in the markets.
Comparing myself to truecryptonaire, now you really should say sorry
. Its a speculation thread of course people are going to talk their book, who would be long and then speculate its going down and who would be short and say its going up. Clearly you're long so you dont mind the people in here saying 0.01 as that fits your narrative, if anyone says it might go down though then they're manipulating feelings. lol
Theres nothing to apologize, I'm speculating as well
not going to lie saying I fully trust 100% of people say in either places
not going to lie saying I fully trust 100% of people say in either places
There is when you're stating incorrect facts (I was buying at 0..04) as an argument against my points...
Perhaps, chances of sub 0.002 are much higher than 0.01 imo. Please dont say but there's x amount of buy support. 1) We all know that can disappear in an instant 2) daily inflation at 0.01 is 150btc so even if the price was to go near there it wouldn't be for long, just like when it was visited in the June pump. Difference this time being there are far more coins in circulation.
and we could all die tomorrow
, there is over 550 BTC in buy support right now, it only disappears when it disappears.btw I remember your nick in the polo trollbox when XMR was dumped at 004 and you were thanking for all the fish
want to buy back lower?
Talk about changing the subject lol. There was around 380btc yesterday. As far as I can see a lot of the support isn't real, surprise surprise (same with btc). imo (remember this is a speculation thread not a these are facts thread) a lot of the support is miners keeping people from selling, you know cause why would you sell with all that support, to keep the price up so they can offload their virtually free botnet coins at a higher price.
LOL I certainly was not buying anywhere near that price, perhaps you should look at the trollbox archive and then you can apologise
You'll find I said I was out (of my trading stash) when the price was way higher than it is now.Clearly you don't know but I've been here since almost the beginning, was mining and buying coins otc for 0.0003-0.0006/xmr so I dont need to buy back cheaper. I have a massive bag with the average cost way below yours, of that I can guarantee.
Sold all my XMR. i will buy back at 0.0020-0.0015
see you at 0.01 Perhaps, chances of sub 0.002 are much higher than 0.01 imo. Please dont say but there's x amount of buy support. 1) We all know that can disappear in an instant 2) daily inflation at 0.01 is 150btc so even if the price was to go near there it wouldn't be for long, just like when it was visited in the June pump. Difference this time being there are far more coins in circulation.
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