Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 2140. (Read 3313076 times)

The idea of a coin that is only used for "dark markets" is rather absurd. Why would a seller on such a market even accept a coin that can't be used for anything else? The utility of the coin can increase by being useful in more markets than other means of payment, but only being useful in certain markets would destroy its value.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, but I'm just wondering why a company would risk integrating a currency built outside of their control into their game when they could simply create their own currency.

Maybe that is your goal, mine is different.
I'd like it to be used for just about everything that money is used for.

If you get your way, then everyone using it gets charged with racketeering under the RICO act and as soon as someone learns you have any, you're busted.

The game is not all that big of a deal, its just one of the next things coming, but you should recognize that you need this game far more than you think you do.  You are thinking too small.

This paragraph is loaded in every sense of the word. I will try to answer it for you


We're seeing a major push toward turing completeness on the blockchain in more than one coin now I think. We have almost entire operating systems being offered by eMunie and Whitecoin. Basically, it sounds like you're asking me if Valve would like to take over OS development . While I admit they might do a great job at it, this is not the focus of their company - as the focus of their company is to make damn good games that look nice and play well. Generally, to turn a profit, a gaming company would like to remain focused on what they do, as that is what they specialize in, and leave things like developing Windows, BSD, Mac or Linux core development alone (or rather, work side by side).

I'm not saying it's out of the question forever as to why they don't fork their own currency, but why put out the extra effort when most altcoins have a market cap of well under $100,000? Basically, you'd have a company running another low-volume turd coin for capitol they can't really monitize. Maybe if it takes off - sure, but I don't see them considering it 'fiscally responsible' to dedicate a paid team to alternative currency development right off the bat. Even for a company that's valued around 2-4 billion USD. Basically, in the year or five or ten that it takes a company like Valve to even build a social and technical need for their own currency, anything can happen. Even then, there's still exchange volatility to deal with (ADD: and don't forget about the legality of minting your own currency - the legal team around it would be just huge guaranteed. I wonder where Valve is incorporated?). How many currencies in such a short amount of time can reliably take root?

Also, by saying you guys, you're placing people that post in this thread into a category of people that you have labeled as whatever. The first thing that does is tell me you're biased and bigoted about people, because me personally has derived most every idea I've decided to share here from legitimate interest and possible support of other coins. To place everyone into one little box of targeted coin supporters is an inflammatory gesture, and I don't like it. Please, consider that I'm also a partial supporter of these other miscellaneous currencies:

I thought about this too but then it occurred to me why wouldn't a company like Valve just make their own currency that they have direct control over? I feel like just about every corporate entity would rather develop their own coin that use somebody else's. Its just the fiscally responsible thing to do. You guys could probably get jobs consulting them on development of Steamcoin or whatever, but I do not think they will adopt outside cryptos.

Just as a reference, for anyone that's curious about plans for the gaming industry here's a pretty decent article:

Here's where it starts: http://www.cyberciti.biz/linux-news/why-valve-wants-to-port-2500-games-on-linux/

And now just this year, progress: http://www.zdnet.com/valve-announces-over-more-than-a-dozen-linux-powered-steam-gaming-boxes-7000024900/

Just after that: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU5OTQ

I see a lot of former and on the edge windows users becoming extremely familiar with open source software over the next few years. I see this possibly also introducing them to cryptocurrencies, if we can leverage ourselves into the right position for when companies like valve move even further with these types of initiatives. I'm sure Valve is not the only huge name gaming company working on this.

Another untapped value here lies in letting people bet against each other in skill based computer games that already exist.

I am in the crypto world first-and-foremost for sportsbetting, second maybe poker. It would be quite simple to launch an XMR sportsbook. I've already talked to some of the trustworthy bitcoin books about cost to host and run one for XMR. I encourage someone to launch cryptonote sports betting or poker before I do!

On that note, I think a HUGE UNTAPPED potential for crypto some of you guys are missing is in the gaming space. That's why we've seen several pump and dump "Starcraft Gold" type coins already, but no serious efforts.

It's fun, and also an excellent case study for how to build services around XMR.

I applaud Risto for thinking outside the box and putting his money where his mouth is.

I'll also echo the sentiment that there seem to be a lot of old 80's/90's Civ/Turn based or RTS Strategy, or RPG gamers looking for something crypto-related. I'll be all over it, for one.

Thank goodness...some reasonable posts since my last one.  Rangedriver, BanditryandLoot, and others, too.  Thank you for making me feel sane again.

Great point that a little washout is probably healthy, especially if it is a washout of folks who don't really understand that they are making a speculative play on something that is still very much developing.

I just can't imagine how the game could be anything but either good or neutral.

Are there other use cases for anonymity?  Sure...dice game would be an example.  I don't have any idea whether or not any of the big BTC sites have a sportsbook, but to me, that would be a great use case for anonymity, as well.  Maybe even a differentiated site that features sports book.  I bet on sports using Bovada.  I have never been to Primedice or any of those sites because I prefer to play those games of chance on a live table.  But if the tagline was something like "Bet on sports using an anonymous cryptocurrency" I probably would have clicked on a link by now.

Furthermore, for sports book, one would also have a ton of other excellent potential targeted marketing opportunities, such as sports forums.  "Want to bet on the game?  Want to move money anonymously?"  A little primer on cryptocurrency and boom, you've converted some sports fans to crypto.  You could even be MORE targeted...when in the Texas Longhorns forum, you say, "Think the Longhorns can beat the spread?  Want to wage anonymously?" or whatever.

I think it's also probable that there are use cases in B2B financial markets that could be explored.  It's a little outside of my expertise, but I have a contact with a company that does secure payment systems and I've been surprised to know that they don't use any crypto at all.  They might have opportunities to lower transaction costs, and if they have any need for anonymizing transactions, I will definitely turn them on to XMR.

Feeling a bit more sane...I better go buy some more!

Gambling would be a great idea, I agree. One benefit to the game that I don't see with dice is that with the game, it can be a type of faucet. If it's a faucet, maybe it will cause people to want to play the dice game? I think the possibilities are endless once people get the money on their computer, maybe even buy more?


You are right. Initially, I don't think Risto is going to do anything like this. I don't know if he will ever. But, the ability to have the decentralized exchanges for gold/XMR within the game could be implemented in a way that more transactions are made. Or, just knowing that there's someone out there with a few extra XMR to send right back to poloniex address from the main game address will probably at least create some kind of mixin value for the rest of the chain.

I'd like to hear Risto's thoughts, or a developers thoughts on this. I don't think it'll be at the same level as Huntercoin where every transaction is a movement on the game, but more XMR in the hands of more people can definitely be a good way to make at least one more transaction on the blockchain, when originally there would have been none.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we only offer to people who want this for "useing anon currency to buy illegal stuff and kick the contoll freaks in the ass", then everyone looking at the blockchain knows that. So, with a game, I think of it like doping in a transistor - maybe this will be the spark that sets this off?

I'm sorry for the confusion

I meant that this statement that you said first: Moneros main reason to exist is to transfer money anonymously

Is very different from this statement that you said second: our main targted usecases would be hiding money, useing anon currency to buy illegal stuff and kick the contoll freaks in the ass.

Because the first statement seems to describe what Monero is, and the second statement seems to describe your opinion of what it should be. I agree with you in both cases, but see that the usecases that you said will be helped a lot by having as many people hold small amounts of XMR as possible, because of the ring signatures formed with other people's mixins. It will result in everyone's anonymity on a protocol level increasing, because right now there are many rings being formed with Poloniex address mixins. Also, the increased transations on the system, will help the miners because of transaction fees. In 4 years, the block reward will be very low, and the network would benefit from many small people paying transaction fees, in addition to larger owners who really need the anonymity but don't transact every day.

I see the game, and other services like it, as being a crucial part of making this system operate as it is intended to - anonymous transactions using ring signatures of as many different people as possible.

Imagine: With cryptonote, a gang of whales is much easier to hide amongst an ocean of schools of minnows.

Exactly.
The game has no negative effect on the coin. Any coin will hugely benefit from such project.
It will suck coins from the exchanges.

Game creates value to Monero community since this is one of the first real use for the coin. When the game is opened for the public, it is 100 % sure that it will create new users for Monero.

The anonymity is great advantage and it creates markets for Monero no other coin can have. It doesn't mean Monero should only focus on this feature.

The bottom line is the same as whap said: it is better to have the game than not to have it.

My interest is piqued. Why do we not need people holding 5 xmr somewhere again?

I understand the need for people to hold large amounts, but why not small amounts?

Add: Consider the Huntercoin blockchain as one gigantic mixer, because of how they implemented their game on the blockchain. While I admit that Risto's game has no likely direct tie the the blockchain at this point in time as far as operation goes, it has the potential to spur thousands of new transactions to mix with. When you have more mixins to pick from other than just poloniex's address, who benefits directly? You! . Your anonymity set increases with these multiple smaller transactions! This system becomes more functional. Assuming that smooth really did tell the truth when he mentioned that there's a possible way to prune the blockchain, and I would like to think he did, then these transactions will serve to benefit everyone! More mixins for the users of the program, and more transaciton fees for the miners. How can this possibly be a bad idea?


Also, you contradict yourself:


"Moneros main reason to exist is to transfer money anonymously"

is a vastly different statement from:

"our main targted usecases would be hiding money, useing anon currency to buy illegal stuff and kick the contoll freaks in the ass."

Dnaleor is working on this. He has been advocating monero on the darknet forums.

Everything in its time, to have a game is better than to not have a game. And who knows the possibilities it may offer if it turns out well? I could even imagine it as some sort of decentralized exchange if you want so...
Any effort currently done to progress XMR's inner and outer development is good for the reputation, marketing is half the rent. That's what Rpietila and some early BTC adopters did in the beginning, regarding there was no GUI, fancy Website or funny Dog memes.

My simplistic view of things:

New Website ---> more people attracted --> official GUI --> more people jumping on board --> liquidity increases --> exchanges(like BTC-e) adopting XMR/USD pairs

@rangedriver: You make a valid point, why not put in contact with MEW?

Don't be confused. The need for these people to publicly come here and claim that they're looking to sell their stash lies solely on the fact that they likely over bought something that they didn't really understand, and are now looking for any and all excuses to reduce the size of their stash or walk away forever, and they want someone to know. Or maybe I'm wrong, and they just don't understand the motivations that are in front of them, and have come to discuss the issue rather bluntly.

It's a healthy downturn, if you ask me, and these people need to vent their frustration somewhere so it might as well be here.

To anyone planning on selling at this point - I'm sorry the price couldn't go upwards to infinite levels, or never ever go down, for what that's worth to you in whatever place you're at right now.

I see the utility in the game as a fantastic opportunity to explore unique niches in cryptocurrencies. It makes sense as a niche, because video games have been played using points, or some other measurement system like wealth for decades. It seems like a natural evolution to me is all, and very likely the next niche that cryptocurrencies will move to collectively capitalize on. Specifically, if Doge showed anyone anything, it's that people are looking for entertainment in cryptocurrencies. Personally, I feel that was a frontier that has barely been touched even with Dogecoin.

As such, if I were to speculate, integrating a point or wealth system into games utilizing the unique aspects found only in cryptocurrencies would be an absolutely well-met idea. While I don't currently think it should be a prime focus for a core protocol development team, I can see the two separate development teams working concurrently to develop platforms in which the general public is already familiar with - in this case gaming.

Personally I don't feel that the general public is familiar at all with marriage on the blockchain, property deeds on the blockchain (bitnet?), even most forms of advanced encrypted anonymous messaging on the blockchain will likely fall on deaf ears, but perhaps introducing these potentially revolutionary concepts utilizing blockchain technology would be best introduced to them using a platform an easy 300+ million people are familiar with is gaming. By 'holding the teddy bear', these new concepts have, for the first time, the ability to be introduced in not only a non-confrontational way, but a friendly (and sometimes free and trustless) way.

I'm excited, and speculate a long-term uptrend is inevitable, provided Risto can tell a good enough story

add: I can see many parallels in the evolution of cryptocurrencies to the evolution of operating systems. Even operating systems on Tandy had disney games available, and I think it did an absolutely fantastic job at introducing the general public to computer usage in general. Imagine if all of your usage of the computer revolved around programming it, writing messages, or keeping track of documents, and no playing games at all. No minesweeper, solitaire, none of that. Sure, people would have gotten involved eventually regardless, but it's undeniable that games assisted the public in adopting operating systems/computers.

Were games the primary focus of OS developers? Not likely. Do OS developers constantly work with game developers to have their software work in unison? Damn right they do - MS worked with ubisoft to limit their games from 60 fps to 30 fps not so long ago.

Would I sell stock in Apple because someone made a game for use with its operating system? Personally, not likely. But to each his own.

I think it's because rpietila is seen by some as a major figure in Monero to the extent that what he says or does has a big impact on the direction of XMR. Whether or not that is technically true is irrelevant, providing that people look to rpietila for a sense of what the future holds. If I'm honest, the first time I heard about the game my initial reaction was to sell and to abandon ship, simply because it just sounds like a joke - if nothing else but for the simple reason that it's not going to have any effect on the price, nor is it useful in expanding XMR's userbase. I got into XMR because it was marketted as a serious enterprise that would deliver a credible anonymous coin with the ability to shift 6 or 7 figure USD volumes. I still believe this will ultimately be the case. But when everyone's talking about the 'game' being a major thing for XMR - I'm like, okay well that's fine, but at the same time not the type of ball park I was expecting. Perhaps if just as much energy was put into winning BTC-e I'd be more optimistic.

I feel like I must be in a parallel universe or there is something I'm not reading correctly.

It is strange to me that the work on the game would cause people to somehow feel worse about XMR.  It's not like rpietila is the main dev working on any of the other dev team projects.  This is just a cherry on top of the sundae.  I mean, if they came out and said, "hey, we're going to drop the GUI wallet because we've got this new game coming out," that would be one thing.  But that isn't the case.

Yes but I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. I'm not interested in the game personally - In my kind of business I just don't have time to play games. It is a big disappointment but not the end of the world. I just need a functioning anonymous coin that can handle big volume. So far so good, but the devs need to get their GUI sorted ASAP otherwise I'm out too.

If XMR can be used in games, that is good.