[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 547.

ol92

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Quote from: Febo on September 29, 2017, 09:44:35 AM

Quote from: ol92 on September 29, 2017, 09:35:55 AM

I think the reasoning of snowden is : if such a flaw have occured in the past, even if corrected later, it is a sign of lack of profesionalism.

There was no flaw. That is how it was set form start. Everyone using Monero at that time knew what they were using. Mostly were miners mining.
Saying this is a flaw is same as to buy electric car and then go to gas station and claim there is a flaw in your car because you cant fill it with gas.

Monero will evolve constantly. There is zero % chance that any lock will never be unlocked. zero. Monero will keep add more and better things to help against tractability. And block chain anslysists will keep trying to break everything Monero will add. It will be an endless fight. The point here is that Monero keeps upper hand.

There is lack of Snowdens professionalism to talk about things he never really fully read about it.

I don't think many users were aware that transparent transactions may compromise the privacy of their non mixins ones. In this sense, this may be call a sort of flaw. But I agree with you reasoning on the whole.

And I find the endorsement by snowden of zcash rather amateurish or suspicious.

gembitz

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*Brute force will solve any Bitcoin problem*

Quote from: aminorex on September 29, 2017, 09:37:41 AM

Quote from: aminorex on September 27, 2017, 11:12:20 AM

It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until ... some magic fib level and support kicks in. 0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high.... More realistically the 38.2% at 0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction...

That was quicker than I thought. Personally, I am a buyer from here down. I will keep some powder dry down to 018, but below that I go all-in. That is okay since I simply cannot be squeezed. (In crypto, if you can be squeezed, you will be, so it is very not okay, and has cost many people their fortunes.)

\\\\\v\\\\\ CBS websites are mining XMR? lol! Cool

http://cfd.net.au/article/two-cbs-websites-contained-code-mine-monero-thu-09282017-0229.html

johnalan

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Quote from: aminorex on September 29, 2017, 09:37:41 AM

Quote from: aminorex on September 27, 2017, 11:12:20 AM

It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until ... some magic fib level and support kicks in. 0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high.... More realistically the 38.2% at 0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction...

That was quicker than I thought. Personally, I am a buyer from here down. I will keep some powder dry down to 018, but below that I go all-in. That is okay since I simply cannot be squeezed. (In crypto, if you can be squeezed, you will be, so it is very not okay, and has cost many people their fortunes.)

Indeed, I was utterly convinced that we were going to see a continued upward correction to 0.05, not a slow bleed to <0.022. Shocking stuff, given the prowess of this currency.

CryptoPH

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<3 Crypto

Quote from: Febo on September 29, 2017, 09:44:35 AM

Quote from: ol92 on September 29, 2017, 09:35:55 AM

I think the reasoning of snowden is : if such a flaw have occured in the past, even if corrected later, it is a sign of lack of profesionalism.

There was no flaw. That is how it was set form start. Everyone using Monero at that time knew what they were using. Mostly were miners mining.
Saying this is a flaw is same as to buy electric car and then go to gas station and claim there is a flaw in your car because you cant fill it with gas.

Monero will evolve constantly. There is zero % chance that any lock will never be unlocked. zero. Monero will keep add more and better things to help against tractability. And block chain anslysists will keep trying to break everything Monero will add. It will be an endless fight. The point here is that Monero keeps upper hand.

There is lack of Snowdens professionalism to talk about thinks he never really fully read about it.

Ok, I got it! It is like a known feature or parameter and not really an unknown bug or error. Cool

Globb0

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Free spirit

Quote from: Febo on September 29, 2017, 09:44:35 AM

Everyone using Monero at that time knew what they were using.

This I just put the same somewhere else.

FUDders come along after the fact and change the past with their mind warp

Febo

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Quote from: ol92 on September 29, 2017, 09:35:55 AM

I think the reasoning of snowden is : if such a flaw have occured in the past, even if corrected later, it is a sign of lack of profesionalism.

There was no flaw. That is how it was set form start. Everyone using Monero at that time knew what they were using. Mostly were miners mining.
Saying this is a flaw is same as to buy electric car and then go to gas station and claim there is a flaw in your car because you cant fill it with gas.

Monero will evolve constantly. There is zero % chance that any lock will never be unlocked. zero. Monero will keep add more and better things to help against tractability. And block chain anslysists will keep trying to break everything Monero will add. It will be an endless fight. The point here is that Monero keeps upper hand.

There is lack of Snowdens professionalism to talk about things he never really fully read about it.

aminorex

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Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: aminorex on September 27, 2017, 11:12:20 AM

It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until ... some magic fib level and support kicks in. 0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high.... More realistically the 38.2% at 0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction...

That was quicker than I thought. Personally, I am a buyer from here down. I will keep some powder dry down to 018, but below that I go all-in. That is okay since I simply cannot be squeezed. (In crypto, if you can be squeezed, you will be, so it is very not okay, and has cost many people their fortunes.)

ol92

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Quote from: Compradora on September 29, 2017, 08:57:44 AM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 29, 2017, 08:54:29 AM

Quote from: CryptoPH on September 29, 2017, 08:42:42 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

Unfortunately he's not up to date either. He is referring to traceability issues that were squashed over a year ago. Its actually FUD started by the coin he supports.

I think you're saying right. There is no traceability issue on monero now and this guys is kinda spreading fud about monero. I don't know his purpose, but he might be working for another competitor project.

I think the reasoning of snowden is : if such a flaw have occured in the past, even if corrected later, it is a sign of lack of profesionalism.

But the problem with this reasoning is that it is rather probable to discover flaws with every new technlogy/crypto.
There is significant risk that some kind of vulnerability may be discovered for zcash too (excluding the problem of trusted setup).

By the same standard, linux may be considered an amateur OS, as any others...

johnsmithx

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I don't buy nor sell anything here and never will.

Quote from: CryptoPH on September 29, 2017, 08:42:42 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

Snowden makes a comment about zcash and zecbtc jumps 50% up. If he bought zcash before his comment and then sold it at the top he might have made some serious money.

Compradora

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Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 29, 2017, 08:54:29 AM

Quote from: CryptoPH on September 29, 2017, 08:42:42 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

Unfortunately he's not up to date either. He is referring to traceability issues that were squashed over a year ago. Its actually FUD started by the coin he supports.

I think you're saying right. There is no traceability issue on monero now and this guys is kinda spreading fud about monero. I don't know his purpose, but he might be working for another competitor project.

cAPSLOCK

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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: CryptoPH on September 29, 2017, 08:42:42 AM

https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

Unfortunately he's not up to date either. He is referring to traceability issues that were squashed over a year ago. Its actually FUD started by the coin he supports.

CryptoPH

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https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative/

"Asked for his thoughts on monero, a competing private currency, Snowden said it was "amateur crypto" and pointed to traceability issues within the tech.

Snowden said that such design errors could put fellow whistleblowers at risk, stating: "Mistakes happen and have huge consequences for people like me.""

I'm not up-to-date recently about Monero dev, which mistake is he referring to?

gembitz

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*Brute force will solve any Bitcoin problem*

Quote from: johnalan on September 29, 2017, 06:18:37 AM

Quote from: aminorex on September 27, 2017, 11:12:20 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

XPM vs XMR ? XM type coins are going to skyrocket XPM is only 3400!! :-D weeeee

re.match(ur'X.*M.*', ticker) && exchange.sweepBuy(ticker, wallet.shutupAndTakeMyMoney())

Now that is a novel form of factor analysis. And I had thought I had seen them all. Good thing XMR has alphabetic priority!

Quote

RuffCT (alternative RingCT2.0)
Multi-sig in coming release
recent fundraising success

These are huge. I do not want to be caught with insufficient Monero in April. The question is: when do the front-runners kick in? It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until they see some magic fib level and support kicks in. .0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high. I would be borrowing money again at that point. More realistically the 38.2% at ,0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction, comparing support levels at hashrates in July and in (almost) October.

Agreed - I'm quite shocked we fell below 0.027 FWIW

McAfee prolly has a new "anti-virus" software that mines XMR coins in the background? lmfao Wink

muuhahah

johnalan

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Quote from: aminorex on September 27, 2017, 11:12:20 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

XPM vs XMR ? XM type coins are going to skyrocket XPM is only 3400!! :-D weeeee

re.match(ur'X.*M.*', ticker) && exchange.sweepBuy(ticker, wallet.shutupAndTakeMyMoney())

Now that is a novel form of factor analysis. And I had thought I had seen them all. Good thing XMR has alphabetic priority!

Quote

RuffCT (alternative RingCT2.0)
Multi-sig in coming release
recent fundraising success

These are huge. I do not want to be caught with insufficient Monero in April. The question is: when do the front-runners kick in? It would be reasonable to expect some ongoing retracement (3-4 weeks?) until they see some magic fib level and support kicks in. .0178 would be a gift from heaven, 50% off the high. I would be borrowing money again at that point. More realistically the 38.2% at ,0220 would be near the support level expected from hashrate supply restriction, comparing support levels at hashrates in July and in (almost) October.

Agreed - I'm quite shocked we fell below 0.027 FWIW

smooth

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Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 28, 2017, 12:12:47 PM

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash. You deposit it at the bank, they have a record. You withdraw it... they have a record. In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record. You sell it, they have a record. Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record. They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this. Did your Monero come from a Poker site? No one knows. Coinbase doesn't know. So there is no need to blacklist it. I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police. They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto. It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

I agree it is a focus and perhaps the primary focus but Monero also has other distinguishing characteristics from Bitcoin, most mentioned (generally with their own section headers) in the original Cryptonote white paper:

1. Flexible block size (rather than a hard coded constant that can only be changed politically)
2. Egalitarian mining
3. Replacing inefficient bulky scripts (not very significant ATM since RingCT txs are naturally large, but they are still bit smaller than they would otherwise be; perhaps they may become significant again if the improvements can make the txs smaller again).
4. Smoothly varying difficulty for more consistent emission
5. Tail reward to avoid mining incentive and other problems (not from the white paper, added later)

SolarStorm

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Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 28, 2017, 03:50:07 PM

Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

Turn that around. Some people use the lack of anonymity in crypto for crime. Blackmail, extortion, spying, theft are a few crimes that come to mind.

Both are important. Fungibility so you cant accidentally get 'tainted' coins, and anonymity to protect yourself.

cAPSLOCK

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Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

Turn that around. Some people use the lack of anonymity in crypto for crime. Blackmail, extortion, spying, theft are a few crimes that come to mind.

cAPSLOCK

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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 28, 2017, 12:12:47 PM

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash. You deposit it at the bank, they have a record. You withdraw it... they have a record. In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record. You sell it, they have a record. Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record. They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this. Did your Monero come from a Poker site? No one knows. Coinbase doesn't know. So there is no need to blacklist it. I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police. They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto. It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

I think around these parts you will not see Coinbase described as a wallet. At least not in the sense that users of Monero would use the word Wallet.

A wallet where you do not control the private key is a loan.
A wallet where you do not control the private key is a counter party risk.

Now, Coinbase is about as reputable an exchange as you will be able to find. And in my opinion they would be the last to exit scam (so many dark markets), become an illiquid fractional reserve (Gox, Cryptsy, etc), or get busted by law enforcement (BTC-e). So your money as about as safe there as it can possibly be considering it is ENTIRELY under someone else's control.

Which frankly is not safe enough for me.

So for me... if Coinbase ever becomes a Monero exchange, I will likely use them some. But I will never hold my crypto there.

CTTE

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Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on September 28, 2017, 12:12:47 PM

To that point...

In some ways Monero is no different than physical cash. You deposit it at the bank, they have a record. You withdraw it... they have a record. In the same way you buy Monero at Coinbase. they have a record. You sell it, they have a record. Deposit it... they have a record, withdraw it... they have a record. They follow their AML/KYC stuff and they know what they need to know about their customer.

The differences are this. Did your Monero come from a Poker site? No one knows. Coinbase doesn't know. So there is no need to blacklist it. I don't think Coinbase really wants to have to be the police. They want to be an on/offramp for crypto.

Coinbase would be crazy not to want to support fungible crypto. It would make their lives lots easier.

And it leaves the police work to the police.

Okay, I see where it would be useful to have on coinbase. I was thinking of it from more of a wallet standpoint, not a place to buy and then send elsewhere, I was wrong.

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin. If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin. The big focus IS on anonymity -- some people use that anonymity for fungiblility (like me), others for committing crime. What you choose to use the anonymity for is up to you, but regardless of why you use it the main point is to have an untraceable currency.

Remember, as soon as it is off of Coinbase and in your wallet it can't be traced. You always need an on and off ramp to and from fiat if you're going to transact in fiat and that applies to any crypto. The only way that doesn't apply is when you mine it yourself and if you buy and sell items directly without any conversion to fiat, right?

Johnny Mnemonic

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Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

Still though, the anonymity of Monero is it’s biggest selling point and the only reason it’s more fungible than Bitcoin.

Duh. Could there be any other reason? Anonymity is the only way to guarantee fungibility in decentralized money.

Quote from: Nathan047 on September 28, 2017, 03:14:55 PM

If it weren't for anonymity then Monero would just be another useless altcoin.

You mean besides Monero's elastic block size and tail emission, right? Or are you saying there's no value in being able to scale on chain without years of political drama and contentious forks? I'm pretty sure Bitcoin would disagree.

What about Monero's CPU-friendly PoW? There's no value in that? The Pirate Bay and CBS's ShowTime seem to disagree with you there. I'm sure there will be more.

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 547. (Read 3314316 times)