Topic: XMR vs DRK - page 33. (Read 69755 times)

Quote from: megges on March 28, 2015, 05:09:42 AM

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

It's Joshuar's argument and you don't agree with it--so...

Invalidating Joshuar's argument doesn't validate x-dark-dash coin anymore than validating Joshuar's argument invalidate monero. So...

Satoshi isn't sacrosanct. So...

thanks for adding nothing

?? Reading is not that easy as it seems ... i don't invalidated his argument - i just tried to follow the herd ... which seems to be the trolls in here.
Also i did say nothing about DRK in my comment. Please try reading it again.

I thought adding nothing was the intend of this thread or why did i read about 100 times the same, isn't the thread for exactly that?

Grammar is not as easy as it seems. Don't play stupid (though you are good at it), saying you are playing troll doesn't excuse you for acting like one anymore than acting rapey excuses you from rape. Why even make a comment you grant yourself is adding nothing of value to the discussion? And why try to invalidate my comment by insisting I have a reading deficiency while at the same time showing that you have a grammar deficiency? Your comment, as you said, added no value and was just ex-daus-troll-machina, so why even bother typing it unless you thought on some primitive level you could cause a rift between monerians or fool some casual reader with cheap debate tricks?

You could always check my posting history, i tried adding points to this topic, and i did, i had nice and valid discussions with XMR devs in here, i sure they appraciated them, but then i realized for the most in here its not about adding value, its just about trolling, so i decided to join the common sence in here - which is clearly trolling.
(Because i hate it to be an outsider)

I try to get not biased in my trolling for the DASH side or even the XMR side, i just troll like everyone else, waiting for OP to make what he said - delete the trolling posts (at least he told us thats why this thread is self moderated) - after that perhaps i will add more value in here, but until than its clearly a troll place.

PS: Sry about grammer mistakes, im not nativ english Sad

Hope that doesn't invalidate my trolling

generalizethis

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Quote from: generalizethis on March 28, 2015, 04:55:30 AM

Quote from: smooth on March 28, 2015, 05:00:28 AM

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

It's Joshuar's argument and you don't agree with it--so...

Invalidating Joshuar's argument doesn't validate x-dark-dash coin anymore than validating Joshuar's argument invalidate monero. So...

Satoshi isn't sacrosanct. So...

thanks for adding nothing

?? Reading is not that easy as it seems ... i don't invalidated his argument - i just tried to follow the herd ... which seems to be the trolls in here.
Also i did say nothing about DRK in my comment. Please try reading it again.

I thought adding nothing was the intend of this thread or why did i read about 100 times the same, isn't the thread for exactly that?

Grammar is not as easy as it seems. Don't play stupid (though you are good at it), saying you are playing troll doesn't excuse you for acting like one anymore than acting rapey excuses you from rape. Why even make a comment you grant yourself is adding nothing of value to the discussion? And why try to invalidate my comment by insisting I have a reading deficiency while at the same time showing that you have a grammar deficiency? Your comment, as you said, added no value and was just ex-daus-troll-machina, so why even bother typing it unless you thought on some primitive level you could cause a rift between monerians or fool some casual reader with cheap debate tricks?

megges

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Quote from: generalizethis on March 28, 2015, 04:55:30 AM

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

I guess we better put bitcoin back to 50 BTC/block then. Works for me that I'll get double of everything I mined in late 2013 and 2014. Who knew!

I don't know if Joshuars want's to say that, but perhaps it was.

Im not in that boat.

ps: i know i should troll in here, but it seems i could not resist to add something valuable Sad

sry - I think the point which Joshuar was trying to make is that the formular which is in the reference bitcoin client, should have been never changed, at least thats what i think would make sense. Thats why he made the point against DASH, because DASH changed it in the code, after the code was published and used. (Bitcoin code never changed - at least not the things that should never been touched according to Joshuar - so BTC seems to be fine). But DASH made somehting silly in his mind - and in the end that seems to be the same with XMR if they'll do what OP said and change the formular later (even if it was stated there, it was not in the code).

megges

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The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

It's Joshuar's argument and you don't agree with it--so...

Invalidating Joshuar's argument doesn't validate x-dark-dash coin anymore than validating Joshuar's argument invalidate monero. So...

Satoshi isn't sacrosanct. So...

thanks for adding nothing

?? Reading is not that easy as it seems ... i don't invalidated his argument - i just tried to follow the herd ... which seems to be the trolls in here.
Also i did say nothing about DRK in my comment. Please try reading it again.

I thought adding nothing was the intend of this thread or why did i read about 100 times the same, isn't the thread for exactly that?

smooth

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The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

I guess we better put bitcoin back to 50 BTC/block then. Works for me that I'll get double of everything I mined in late 2013 and 2014. Who knew!

generalizethis

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Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

It's Joshuar's argument and you don't agree with it--so...

Invalidating Joshuar's argument doesn't validate x-dark-dash coin anymore than validating Joshuar's argument invalidate monero. So...

Satoshi isn't sacrosanct. So...

thanks for adding nothing

megges

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Activity: 371

Merit: 250

Quote from: generalizethis on March 28, 2015, 04:36:02 AM

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

smooth

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Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

qvan

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Darkcoin cannot think of its own name, that is all i need to know

megges

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Quote from: Joshuar on March 26, 2015, 02:39:39 PM

Ok, I'll just c/p some here, don't have time to make it look pretty.

I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.

Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, there are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since that mixer would deliver the same amount of anonymity that Dash can/could ever deliver(Though it's still less than ring signatures/zeocash).

So after everybody seems to like trolling in here, i should perhaps troll a bit, too !

I hope you are not invested in Monero, because if you are, you should have read at least the ANN Thread of Monero and there you'll find the following:
"A minimum subsidy may be implemented in the future with <1% annual inflation to preserve mining incentives."

So in the end you could have invested in a coin, which could get defecated in the future (at least thats what you told us about changing the blockreward)!

Quote from: monero on April 24, 2014, 08:38:50 PM

PoW algorithm: CryptoNight [1]
Max supply: ~18.4 million [2]
Block reward: Smoothly varying [3]
Block time: 60 seconds
Difficulty: Retargets at every block

[1] CPU + GPU mining (about 1:1 performance for now). Memory-bound by design using AES encryption and several SHA-3 candidates.
[2] Actual number of atomic units is M = 2⁶⁴ - 1. A minimum subsidy may be implemented in the future with <1% annual inflation to preserve mining incentives.
[3] Uses a recurrence relation. Block reward = (M - A) * 2^-20 * 10^-12, where A = current circulation. Roughly 86% mined in 4 years (see graph).

See bolded

Yeah, that's gonna kill a coin: incentivizing miners while adding a paltry inflation. Roll Eyes

You're adding 184,000 max a year in mining incentive in the later years, when most likely, quantum money will be coming online and phasing out all current cryptocurrencies. Who gives a shit? Monero is built with privacy now and implementing a system for the near-term future, not a get-quick-rich scheme intended to flush money into the hands of a few without regard to how this affects the network or actual use. What's better for miners? Incentivizing them for as long as they mine or pushing money to masternode (amwaynode) hoarders?

Obv Joshuar seems to give a shit about it ... at least that was his argument! (It was not mine)

generalizethis

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Quote from: Joshuar on March 26, 2015, 02:39:39 PM

Ok, I'll just c/p some here, don't have time to make it look pretty.

I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.

Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, there are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since that mixer would deliver the same amount of anonymity that Dash can/could ever deliver(Though it's still less than ring signatures/zeocash).

So after everybody seems to like trolling in here, i should perhaps troll a bit, too !

I hope you are not invested in Monero, because if you are, you should have read at least the ANN Thread of Monero and there you'll find the following:
"A minimum subsidy may be implemented in the future with <1% annual inflation to preserve mining incentives."

So in the end you could have invested in a coin, which could get defecated in the future (at least thats what you told us about changing the blockreward)!

Quote from: monero on April 24, 2014, 08:38:50 PM

PoW algorithm: CryptoNight [1]
Max supply: ~18.4 million [2]
Block reward: Smoothly varying [3]
Block time: 60 seconds
Difficulty: Retargets at every block

[1] CPU + GPU mining (about 1:1 performance for now). Memory-bound by design using AES encryption and several SHA-3 candidates.
[2] Actual number of atomic units is M = 2⁶⁴ - 1. A minimum subsidy may be implemented in the future with <1% annual inflation to preserve mining incentives.
[3] Uses a recurrence relation. Block reward = (M - A) * 2^-20 * 10^-12, where A = current circulation. Roughly 86% mined in 4 years (see graph).

See bolded

Yeah, that's gonna kill a coin: incentivizing miners while adding a paltry inflation. Roll Eyes

You're adding 184,000 max a year in mining incentive in the later years, when most likely, quantum money will be coming online and phasing out all current cryptocurrencies. Who gives a shit? Monero is built with privacy now and implementing a system for the near-term future, not a get-quick-rich scheme intended to flush money into the hands of a few without regard to how this affects the network or actual use. What's better for miners? Incentivizing them for as long as they mine or pushing money to masternode (amwaynode) hoarders?

megges

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Quote from: 5w00p on March 28, 2015, 04:30:27 AM

Quote from: megges on March 28, 2015, 04:18:18 AM

I don't see what that has to do with my comment, the quote i posted from Joshuar said (in my own words) if you change the blockreward of a coin, its defecated

You are ignorant of Monero and you need to learn more about the English language, because defecated neither makes sense in your usage nor is factual in reference to the minimum miner subsidy that will likely be implemented years from now, once the stated basis emission has been reached.

Yeah i know it was spelled wrong, but because Joshuar spelled it wrong in the first place, i thought of just leaving it that way.

5w00p

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Quote from: megges on March 28, 2015, 04:18:18 AM

I don't see what that has to do with my comment, the quote i posted from Joshuar said (in my own words) if you change the blockreward of a coin, its defecated

You are ignorant of Monero and you need to learn more about the English language, because defecated neither makes sense in your usage nor is factual in reference to the minimum miner subsidy that will likely be implemented years from now, once the stated basis emission has been reached.

megges

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Quote from: GTO911 on March 28, 2015, 04:14:18 AM

Actually people behind Monero are not driven by greed, rotten smelly greed

I don't see what that has to do with my comment, the quote i posted from Joshuar said (in my own words) if you change the blockreward of a coin, its defecated , and then, read the announce of monero, there it tells you that XMR wants perhaps to change the blockreward in the future, so if Joshuar is thinking that this could defecat a coin, he obv should not invest in Monero, because they will perhaps do that in the future like stated in the announce topic.

So whats that all about greed??? - nothing to do with that

PS: Yes i have no intend to bring anything valueable to this discussion thread, like all the other trolls in here, thats why i called my post myself a troll posting - it just seems that thats the intend of this thread, so i gave up explaining things in here, and just joined the majority in here.

GTO911

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Quote from: Joshuar on March 26, 2015, 02:39:39 PM

Actually people behind Monero are not driven by greed, rotten smelly greed

megges

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Ok, I'll just c/p some here, don't have time to make it look pretty.

I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.

Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, there are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since that mixer would deliver the same amount of anonymity that Dash can/could ever deliver(Though it's still less than ring signatures/zeocash).

So after everybody seems to like trolling in here, i should perhaps troll a bit, too !

I hope you are not invested in Monero, because if you are, you should have read at least the ANN Thread of Monero and there you'll find the following:
"A minimum subsidy may be implemented in the future with <1% annual inflation to preserve mining incentives."

So in the end you could have invested in a coin, which could get defecated in the future (at least thats what you told us about changing the blockreward)!

Quote from: monero on April 24, 2014, 08:38:50 PM

PoW algorithm: CryptoNight [1]
Max supply: ~18.4 million [2]
Block reward: Smoothly varying [3]
Block time: 60 seconds
Difficulty: Retargets at every block

[1] CPU + GPU mining (about 1:1 performance for now). Memory-bound by design using AES encryption and several SHA-3 candidates.
[2] Actual number of atomic units is M = 2⁶⁴ - 1. A minimum subsidy may be implemented in the future with <1% annual inflation to preserve mining incentives.
[3] Uses a recurrence relation. Block reward = (M - A) * 2^-20 * 10^-12, where A = current circulation. Roughly 86% mined in 4 years (see graph).

generalizethis

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Facts are more efficient than fud

Having to read through five pages of that was painful. But note to Monerians in their exchanges with x-dark-dashians, they tend to base their presumptions about anonymity on most, if not all, masternode operators using best practices, which as we saw with mix-in levels, is rarely the case.

Pretty simple, math is always better at best practices every time than moody humans who might not care or have their mind on something else or be ignorant of said practices...or just have someone else run their node who doesn't care or be in shitty-mode or not even know what best practices are....

Hence, why a coin that assumes people don't use best practices every time and is developed accordingly is better than a coin that assumes humans are acting in the coins best interest and follow best practices every time--so there's no need to bother speculating on how to solve issues of human inconsistency. Practical Paranoia Vs. Chimerical Rationalization.

If you assume everyone is acting in accordance to your wishes, you've presumed you're greater than God.

If you assume everyone is acting against your wishes, you're writing protocol.

Anon136

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what a stupid troll, bitmonerod is not even the wallet.

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 28, 2015, 12:24:16 AM

Anon136

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No money works unless you can demonstrate that you spent it (if you so wish) and to whom.

P.S. What your favourite wallet looks like....

... a piece of garbage (like what it holds)

Expert rebuttal. I suppose the dollar bills in my pocket don't work either then? After all, I can't "demonstrate" their expenditure

Oh, and I like our modest wallet. Without it folks like yourself would have nothing left to troll us about Wink

EDIT: By the way, that's not even the wallet. Troll harder.

Also monero does provide a means for demonstrating that you spent (if you wish) and to whom...

query getviewkey? am i missing something?

Johnny Mnemonic

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