Pages:
Author

Topic: [XPM] Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail? (Read 13667 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
The primecoin chart just showed a double hump down pattern last week, a technical indicator pointing to further weakness ahead. It keeps looking like the predictions of one coin to survive them all is coming true. I'm trying to stay optimistic but it's really hard to.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Quote
Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made.

Yes, USD is a failure cause of it's inflation rate, there's no cap on how many $s will be made.

As a result, people now use fossil fuels as a currency, cause it's value always increases.

I got no idea what you buy for investment. Primes? Or coin which has an inflation model like the $, Euro, Yen, Pound sterling, INR etc...

That's why some alt coins and Bitcoin has been so successful because they do have a market cap and don't keep on getting generated.

lol yeah the cap is going to be reached in 2050 or 2090 or whatever...lol "and don't keep on getting generated".
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Quote
Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made.

Yes, USD is a failure cause of it's inflation rate, there's no cap on how many $s will be made.

As a result, people now use fossil fuels as a currency, cause it's value always increases.

I got no idea what you buy for investment. Primes? Or coin which has an inflation model like the $, Euro, Yen, Pound sterling, INR etc...

That's why some alt coins and Bitcoin has been so successful because they do have a market cap and don't keep on getting generated.

Yes, coins having an inflation model are a fail --

1) Infinitecoin
2) Quark
3) Zetacoin

And Bitcoins will continue to have inflation more than $s till 2021.

But no, that's not inflation at all. Cause if it would've been inflation, it whould've been fail, but it has NOT failed.

And you can always see the national currency, it's always a fail. People use fossil fuels as currency nowadays.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Quote
Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made.

Yes, USD is a failure cause of it's inflation rate, there's no cap on how many $s will be made.

As a result, people now use fossil fuels as a currency, cause it's value always increases.

I got no idea what you buy for investment. Primes? Or coin which has an inflation model like the $, Euro, Yen, Pound sterling, INR etc...

That's why some alt coins and Bitcoin has been so successful because they do have a market cap and don't keep on getting generated.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Quote
Unlike Bitcoin, there is no cap to how many Primecoins will be made.

Yes, USD is a failure cause of it's inflation rate, there's no cap on how many $s will be made.

As a result, people now use fossil fuels as a currency, cause it's value always increases.

I got no idea what you buy for investment. Primes? Or coin which has an inflation model like the $, Euro, Yen, Pound sterling, INR etc...
member
Activity: 93
Merit: 10
XPM supply should be 20-30mln coins (depends how fast GPU and ASIC miner will launch into market)
http://xpm.muuttuja.org/charts/

if nobody could make GPU/ASIC miner for Prime - i heard that the first CPU on graphene would have over 100GHz / 1core
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
How does one figure out the current supplyof xpm?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
My pick is always the more realistic scarcity model, like that of Decrits or eMunie for example, where supply adjusts to demand proportionately, not inversely proportionate like that of Primecoin.

In two years from now, Bitcoin has a very high chance of becoming "history" when it comes to functioning as a currency, and may only be used as a store of value by then (a commodity), because new things like eMunie will be able to process transactions in seconds, not minutes - so while not designed to be a "commodity" - it's function is very clear - to be used as a currency and it suppose to do that better than what Visa has already accomplished.

This thread is not about eMunie, so please refrain from going off topic and pigging back on other currencies (and it's nothing like Visa, btw).

You brought up Emunie first, but now are saying don't go off topic.....
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250

PS. Should I read a book to understand how economics work, because "academic" is my type and I can't think for myself? As a web marketer in an ever changing internet world one thing I noticed is that I tend to trust my own logical analysis, research and experience to find facts. Should I change that way of thinking and listen to the flock, like a sheep?


There is an I missing...


"my own ilogical analysis"
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Independent Analyst
Your post is really priceless.

1) You didn't explicitly say VISA is currency/money. You implied this by comparing VISA to Primecoin. If i'm wrong why do you compare apples with oranges ? And be sure that even "average Joe" will see differences.

2) This thread isn't about eMunie? okay then don't refer to this scamcoin

3) You talk about central banks, but your video link is on commercial banks. Central banks create money out of nothing (that's why it's called Fiat, like in Fiat lux!), Commercial banks create money by issuing asymmetric debt (with $10 in assets central banks authorize them to lend 200$). It's certainly not the same business. Again you seem to mingle economics concepts, economics agents and relation between them. You want to learn a bit ? Go an buy G. Mankiw book Principles of Economics (even if it's a keynesian book, it's well written)

My point ? I'm really far far from being a noob in economics, and all your arguments against primecoin are /dev/null . They just show how much you're ignorant. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Ok, I get it, someone may have been butthurt because:

A) They just bought in Primecoin when the prices rose back to 0.009, thinking Primecoin is back to the glorious 0.019 days again
B) Were not in there from day one and just only figured how to mind this thing on VPS, only to find a factual report like mine to show up
C) Still hold lots of XPM, hoping to GRQ one day.

PS. Should I read a book to understand how economics work, because "academic" is my type and I can't think for myself? As a web marketer in an ever changing internet world one thing I noticed is that I tend to trust my own logical analysis, research and experience to find facts. Should I change that way of thinking and listen to the flock, like a sheep?

Thank you very much for your kind book recommendation, which has 3.5 out of 5 star ratings and a large number of reviews (18 so far since 2011 on amazon) - I hope it helps me understand how economics work just like it did to you Smiley
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0

Same old retaliation posts...

I never said Visa is a currency, stop being ignorant and read the thread before you post.

As far as I know, I use Visa/MasterCard everyday (90% of the time), but they don't print money, it's the central banks that print/create money physically or digitally.

FYI:
http://youtu.be/01IusDeSPE4

This thread is not about eMunie, so please refrain from going off topic and pigging back on other currencies (and it's nothing like Visa, btw).

This line is a pretty clear description of yourself:
Quote
You don't understand economics, you don't understand computer science that's pretty clear now.

Your post is really priceless.

1) You didn't explicitly say VISA is currency/money. You implied this by comparing VISA to Primecoin. If i'm wrong why do you compare apples with oranges ? And be sure that even "average Joe" will see differences.

2) This thread isn't about eMunie? okay then don't refer to this scamcoin

3) You talk about central banks, but your video link is on commercial banks. Central banks create money out of nothing (that's why it's called Fiat, like in Fiat lux!), Commercial banks create money by issuing asymmetric debt (with $10 in assets central banks authorize them to lend 200$). It's certainly not the same business. Again you seem to mingle economics concepts, economics agents and relation between them. You want to learn a bit ? Go an buy G. Mankiw book Principles of Economics (even if it's a keynesian book, it's well written)

My point ? I'm really far far from being a noob in economics, and all your arguments against primecoin are /dev/null . They just show how much you're ignorant. Nothing more. Nothing less.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Independent Analyst
I didn't want to talk on this, but at this point there is no other choice. You don't understand economics, you don't understand computer science that's pretty clear now.

First what is a currency ?
You seem to like VISA business model, but VISA is not a currency, it's a DEBT ISSUER company, just like a bank but without fiat money issuing power (not regulated by fed, ecb, boe, boj...). So if eMunie is a Visa-like scheme it's doomed to fail. Visa/Mastercarcd&co process transactions in few seconds so you're not doing something new, and unlike eMunie, people trust them, they're in business since a while and you know what ? economics and particularly money is about trust.
A currency is a mean of exchange, primecoin can be exchanged
A currency is unit of account, you can basically value anything you want in primecoin, even if his "market cap" (it's better to talk about money supply) isn't large enough to let you buy anything you want
A currency is store of value, that's definitely the most important when it comes to cryptocurrencies, bitcoin included and that's also why regulators want to step in. am I gonna lose my money if I invest in bitcoin/primecoin/whatevercoin. So As long as primecoin keep/increase/manage his value, it's a valid store of value.

You talk about commodities. A commodity is simply anything that can be freely traded so even USD/EUR/JPY are commodities traded on Forex markets. The only difference compared to nature-based commodities is simply Ben Bernanke & co playing roles of "mother nature" for the sake of all of us. You seem to mingle scarcity and commodities.

Now i'll tell you why Primecoin is the best alternative/complement to bitcoin :
-It's fast enough for online transaction. One minute is an acceptable tradeoff for e-commerce. But bitcoin is fine too if you add a layer that can indicate that buyer BTC address has enough funds; nevertheless a fast coin increase Velocity of money and therefore is definitely a plus.
-It can never be merge mined with Bitcoin. So they are two different currencies just as Gold and Silver were.
-It's not a capped coin. Therefore it's still share some characteristics of current fiat money. Continuous supply should stabilize value of XPM and discourage hoarding as value doesn't increase with time. Basically it's like a pure neutral money. World GDP has increased over time (think about before J.C and now), so it's safe to assume a little inflated money to expand innovation and growth.
-Bitcoin won't be the only crypto in town. Friedman in Money Mischief stated that bi or tri-currencies scheme is always better than "monocurrency". I share this view, Gold lost to fiat, because of silver demonetization, so for me bitcoin need altcoins.

Why I picked primecoin among alt-coins satisfying previous statements ?
 - because of his PoW. Gold had intrinsically almost no value other than aesthetic and durability. But there were many durable commodities, so it's probable that people picked Gold and Silver because they were aesthetics. Translated in virtual scheme, Primecoin use of prime numbers is equivalent. For many people (mathematicians) primes are like numbers of God, they seem to follow a pattern and could be seen as very aesthetics.    

You don't like XPM, it's okay. It's a free business. Wait for eMunie and stop wasting your time telling us we're wrong while you don't have a clue about how monetary stuff works.

Same old retaliation posts...

I never said Visa is a currency, stop being ignorant and read the thread before you post.

As far as I know, I use Visa/MasterCard everyday (90% of the time), but they don't print money, it's the central banks that print/create money physically or digitally.

FYI:
http://youtu.be/01IusDeSPE4

This thread is not about eMunie, so please refrain from going off topic and pigging back on other currencies (and it's nothing like Visa, btw).

This line is a pretty clear description of yourself:
Quote
You don't understand economics, you don't understand computer science that's pretty clear now.
full member
Activity: 191
Merit: 100
Bien dit! Smiley
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
Again, I must say that your whole theory relies on steady demand for Bitcoin, PPC and XPM alike.

You have not taken into account disruptive technologies, such as Decrits (which is for pure example only - unlikely to ever realize) or eMunie (still in beta, but close to initial launch) that will take over the whole Bitcoin niche (which to date only has about 200K users, max).

In two years from now, Bitcoin has a very high chance of becoming "history" when it comes to functioning as a currency, and may only be used as a store of value by then (a commodity), because new things like eMunie will be able to process transactions in seconds, not minutes - so while not designed to be a "commodity" - it's function is very clear - to be used as a currency and it suppose to do that better than what Visa has already accomplished.

I'm sure Satoshi was very clear about where he wanted to see Bitcoin going over the long term - to function as a commodity and a stepping stone towards decentralized currency revolution - and that is what eMunie is NOT designed to replace (but who knows, maybe someone else will create something better than Bitcoin in the future to be used as Digital Gold!).


That's why I see no future for Primecoin, nor PPCoin, because you don't seem to have planned out a clear direction of where you want to see your coin heading in the long term.

Quote
Both Primecoin and PPcoin are lost in between being a "currency" and a "commodity" - but do a horrible job of both...

I didn't want to talk on this, but at this point there is no other choice. You don't understand economics, you don't understand computer science that's pretty clear now.

First what is a currency ?
You seem to like VISA business model, but VISA is not a currency, it's a DEBT ISSUER company, just like a bank but without fiat money issuing power (not regulated by fed, ecb, boe, boj...). So if eMunie is a Visa-like scheme it's doomed to fail. Visa/Mastercarcd&co process transactions in few seconds so you're not doing something new, and unlike eMunie, people trust them, they're in business since a while and you know what ? economics and particularly money is about trust.
A currency is a mean of exchange, primecoin can be exchanged
A currency is unit of account, you can basically value anything you want in primecoin, even if his "market cap" (it's better to talk about money supply) isn't large enough to let you buy anything you want
A currency is store of value, that's definitely the most important when it comes to cryptocurrencies, bitcoin included and that's also why regulators want to step in. am I gonna lose my money if I invest in bitcoin/primecoin/whatevercoin. So As long as primecoin keep/increase/manage his value, it's a valid store of value.

You talk about commodities. A commodity is simply anything that can be freely traded so even USD/EUR/JPY are commodities traded on Forex markets. The only difference compared to nature-based commodities is simply Ben Bernanke & co playing roles of "mother nature" for the sake of all of us. You seem to mingle scarcity and commodities.

Now i'll tell you why Primecoin is the best alternative/complement to bitcoin :
-It's fast enough for online transaction. One minute is an acceptable tradeoff for e-commerce. But bitcoin is fine too if you add a layer that can indicate that buyer BTC address has enough funds; nevertheless a fast coin increase Velocity of money and therefore is definitely a plus.
-It can never be merge mined with Bitcoin. So they are two different currencies just as Gold and Silver were.
-It's not a capped coin. Therefore it's still share some characteristics of current fiat money. Continuous supply should stabilize value of XPM and discourage hoarding as value doesn't increase with time. Basically it's like a pure neutral money. World GDP has increased over time (think about before J.C and now), so it's safe to assume a little inflated money to expand innovation and growth.
-Bitcoin won't be the only crypto in town. Friedman in Money Mischief stated that bi or tri-currencies scheme is always better than "monocurrency". I share this view, Gold lost to fiat, because of silver demonetization, so for me bitcoin need altcoins.

Why I picked primecoin among alt-coins satisfying previous statements ?
 - because of his PoW. Gold had intrinsically almost no value other than aesthetic and durability. But there were many durable commodities, so it's probable that people picked Gold and Silver because they were aesthetics. Translated in virtual scheme, Primecoin use of prime numbers is equivalent. For many people (mathematicians) primes are like numbers of God, they seem to follow a pattern and could be seen as very aesthetics.    

You don't like XPM, it's okay. It's a free business. Wait for eMunie and stop wasting your time telling us we're wrong while you don't have a clue about how monetary stuff works.
member
Activity: 114
Merit: 10
eCoinomist, I agree with you XPM is pretty useless and that there is no point in keeping them. In fact, you are rather delusional if you hold on to it.

I suggest you transfer all your useless coins (which is about 90% more than most primecoin miners have mined) to this address: ATQLWspVWZBixhzhHqXnP8JWbMbjgHQ9z5




legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
Primecoin is useful as more than just a currency though, as said before, hobbyists will still use it even after the pump and dumpers have left.
+1
sr. member
Activity: 287
Merit: 250
Primecoin is useful as more than just a currency though, as said before, hobbyists will still use it even after the pump and dumpers have left.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Just because you couldn't understand how Moore's Law regulates inflation in the long term does not mean it doesn't work.

PPC has already demonstrated that it works very well, via an accelerated schedule due to the introduction of ASIC mining. PPC currently has the lowest inflation rate among all top altcoins. How about a collapse in demand? Let's say PPC price drops to 0.0001, 6% of its current price, how about difficulty then, still gonna be at 60K, inflation rate is only going to double at most, still way less inflation than quite a few altcoins such as FTC. That is exactly as designed, Moore's Law would dominate the scarcity model in the long term, demand only plays secondary role in short term.

The scarcity model is by design and of course intentional. It strengthens scarcity in the first four years than bitcoin's design, meanwhile also gives early adopters/investors reasonable advantage. I am pro free market and do not have a jealousy problem toward them, rather I recognize their important roles to help with the growth of the currency.

What you link is propaganda from CMC people. They copied PPC without giving credit yet spread this propaganda about how PPC and XPM (among several other top altcoins) are unfair. Yet they conveniently forget to mention in their malicious propaganda that both PPC and XPM had about 10 days of pre-release notice so the mining public had fair opportunities to participate. Also, both PPC and XPM have no cap, meaning in the long term the seemingly high initial mint quantity would be constantly diluted unlike other coins with cap scarcity model.

Again, I must say that your whole theory relies on steady demand for Bitcoin, PPC and XPM alike.

You have not taken into account disruptive technologies, such as Decrits (which is for pure example only - unlikely to ever realize) or eMunie (still in beta, but close to initial launch) that will take over the whole Bitcoin niche (which to date only has about 200K users, max).

In two years from now, Bitcoin has a very high chance of becoming "history" when it comes to functioning as a currency, and may only be used as a store of value by then (a commodity), because new things like eMunie will be able to process transactions in seconds, not minutes - so while not designed to be a "commodity" - it's function is very clear - to be used as a currency and it suppose to do that better than what Visa has already accomplished.

I'm sure Satoshi was very clear about where he wanted to see Bitcoin going over the long term - to function as a commodity and a stepping stone towards decentralized currency revolution - and that is what eMunie is NOT designed to replace (but who knows, maybe someone else will create something better than Bitcoin in the future to be used as Digital Gold!).


That's why I see no future for Primecoin, nor PPCoin, because you don't seem to have planned out a clear direction of where you want to see your coin heading in the long term.

Quote
Both Primecoin and PPcoin are lost in between being a "currency" and a "commodity" - but do a horrible job of both...

Okay, you stated you do not like it... we understand you do not... can you move along? We get it, you do not care...
if you do not care, stop wasting your time with it. Stop playing business, and do business. Do what you want, and so shall we.

Fair?
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Independent Analyst
Just because you couldn't understand how Moore's Law regulates inflation in the long term does not mean it doesn't work.

PPC has already demonstrated that it works very well, via an accelerated schedule due to the introduction of ASIC mining. PPC currently has the lowest inflation rate among all top altcoins. How about a collapse in demand? Let's say PPC price drops to 0.0001, 6% of its current price, how about difficulty then, still gonna be at 60K, inflation rate is only going to double at most, still way less inflation than quite a few altcoins such as FTC. That is exactly as designed, Moore's Law would dominate the scarcity model in the long term, demand only plays secondary role in short term.

The scarcity model is by design and of course intentional. It strengthens scarcity in the first four years than bitcoin's design, meanwhile also gives early adopters/investors reasonable advantage. I am pro free market and do not have a jealousy problem toward them, rather I recognize their important roles to help with the growth of the currency.

What you link is propaganda from CMC people. They copied PPC without giving credit yet spread this propaganda about how PPC and XPM (among several other top altcoins) are unfair. Yet they conveniently forget to mention in their malicious propaganda that both PPC and XPM had about 10 days of pre-release notice so the mining public had fair opportunities to participate. Also, both PPC and XPM have no cap, meaning in the long term the seemingly high initial mint quantity would be constantly diluted unlike other coins with cap scarcity model.

Again, I must say that your whole theory relies on steady demand for Bitcoin, PPC and XPM alike.

You have not taken into account disruptive technologies, such as Decrits (which is for pure example only - unlikely to ever realize) or eMunie (still in beta, but close to initial launch) that will take over the whole Bitcoin niche (which to date only has about 200K users, max).

In two years from now, Bitcoin has a very high chance of becoming "history" when it comes to functioning as a currency, and may only be used as a store of value by then (a commodity), because new things like eMunie will be able to process transactions in seconds, not minutes - so while not designed to be a "commodity" - it's function is very clear - to be used as a currency and it suppose to do that better than what Visa has already accomplished.

I'm sure Satoshi was very clear about where he wanted to see Bitcoin going over the long term - to function as a commodity and a stepping stone towards decentralized currency revolution - and that is what eMunie is NOT designed to replace (but who knows, maybe someone else will create something better than Bitcoin in the future to be used as Digital Gold!).


That's why I see no future for Primecoin, nor PPCoin, because you don't seem to have planned out a clear direction of where you want to see your coin heading in the long term.

Quote
Both Primecoin and PPcoin are lost in between being a "currency" and a "commodity" - but do a horrible job of both...
legendary
Activity: 1205
Merit: 1010
Sunny, if price falls and if miners stops mining because price falls and the supply of coins increases because of falling difficulty (yes a lot of if's and perhaps it will not unfold like this but IF it does happen this way [please humor me]): then do you think that it is possible that new miners will step in to mine these easy/cheap coins - hoping that difficulty and then price will go up later on therefor considering it a bargain thus pressing up the difficulty yet again creating aa self-fullfillinng prophecy?

There may very well be speculations on miners' side I don't know, but the point is over long term the effect of Moore's Law plus algorithmic/hardware improvements would overwhelm any demand changes anyways. Demand typically fluctuates within 2 orders of magnitude, while Moore's Law + algorithmic/hardware advancement would reach over 5 orders of magnitude or more over long term. For example in bitcoin network, it went through about 4 orders of magnitude within the first five years.
Pages:
Jump to: