[XPM] Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail? - page 3.

vinne81

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Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 08:39:32 PM

Quote from: vinne81 on August 16, 2013, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

That's debateable. I'm sure there are world records for climbing the highest tree or eating the biggest cake in like 30 min. That doesn't make those records or actions useful.

The usefulness of a hoby is if people can have fund doing it. People look for record as a hobby long before Primecoin existed. Finding a CC with a new length record is like finding a new piece of jigsaw of our universe. Once you have discovered it it's your record forever. As a pastime primecion's usefulness is not debatable.

Quote from: vinne81 on August 16, 2013, 01:56:52 PM

Really, Cunningham chain's aren't that useful and I'm sure 95% of the miners don't care about the CC.

Here we go again. I think 98% people of the world don't think or know cryptocurrencies are useful. By your logic cryptocurrencies are useless?

Pretty much yeah. You don't think the masses are getting into BTC are you?

"Hey there's this digital currency, right now it's mined by ASICS (what), but you can buy a BTC for 100$!"

I don't believe in global acceptance of (alt)coins no, is that wrong

reannypleas

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Quote from: Sunny King on August 16, 2013, 06:12:28 PM

Things are unveiling fast. Three years from now with another halving bitcoin would no longer be the most secure cryptocurrency against 51% attacks. This is because security is measured by network mining income for pure proof-of-work currencies, and by which measure bitcoin network is losing its share at a fast pace.

Three years from now Bitcoin will still be most secure cryptocoin, because it is most usefull coin and thus most valued. If some coin has 1/10 value of Bitcoin it is reasonable to assume the coin is 1/10 as secure

eCoinomist

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Quote from: Sunny King on August 16, 2013, 06:12:28 PM

Take your pick then, prospects of less security and shrinking market share with a 'comforting' cap hoping for a better value gain, or a more realistic scarcity model with better long term security?

My pick is always the more realistic scarcity model, like that of Decrits or eMunie for example, where supply adjusts to demand proportionately, not inversely proportionate like that of Primecoin.

Your argument of Primecoin being scarce is only true based on the assumption that demand for Primecoin is on a constant linear increase. And as we have seen so far, this is not the case, because I have been observing demand for it closely since the begining.

But when that demands weakens, the opposite is true, Primecoin's security not only quickly weakens, it's value is also quickly lost, due to the new unnecessary rising inflation from difficulty drop, resulting in faster XPM production rate.

Quote

So in fact, Primecoin is the prospect for less security and shrinking market share without the 'comforting' cap to even gain better value and unrealistic scarcity model without any guarantee for long term security.

mustyoshi

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Quote from: vinne81 on August 16, 2013, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

That's debateable. I'm sure there are world records for climbing the highest tree or eating the biggest cake in like 30 min. That doesn't make those records or actions useful.

Really, Cunningham chain's aren't that useful and I'm sure 95% of the miners don't care about the CC.

Like it or not, Primecoin gives a chance to make HUGE profits to people with access to a few CPU's/Servers, and it's thanks to those CC/Primecoin believers that they can sell their mined coins at that high a price. I am one of them.

The only reason I'm still running a primecoin node is BECAUSE I believe in the proof of work it uses.

mhps

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Quote from: vinne81 on August 16, 2013, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

That's debateable. I'm sure there are world records for climbing the highest tree or eating the biggest cake in like 30 min. That doesn't make those records or actions useful.

The usefulness of a hoby is if people can have fund doing it. People look for record as a hobby long before Primecoin existed. Finding a CC with a new length record is like finding a new piece of jigsaw of our universe. Once you have discovered it it's your record forever. As a pastime primecion's usefulness is not debatable.

Quote from: vinne81 on August 16, 2013, 01:56:52 PM

Really, Cunningham chain's aren't that useful and I'm sure 95% of the miners don't care about the CC.

Here we go again. I think 98% people of the world don't think or know cryptocurrencies are useful. By your logic cryptocurrencies are useless?

wantrepreneur

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OP defeated; by the King himself.

Sunny King

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Money has three functions: unit of account, medium of exchange and store of value. A good currency must do all three well, not just one.

A fixed cap scarcity model is not the ideal scarcity model in my opinion. It's not similar to gold, it's actually stronger than gold's scarcity, gold does not have a cap in its supply, unless you are talking about mass of the earth.

Both Primecoin and PPCoin employ a scarcity model more closely resembling gold. No fixed cap in supply, but scarce nonetheless.

In my opinion, a fixed cap scarcity model is too strong that necessarily sacrifices other functions of the system in the long run, for example, premature weakening of security, or uncompetitive transaction cost.

Things are unveiling fast. Three years from now with another halving bitcoin would no longer be the most secure cryptocurrency against 51% attacks. This is because security is measured by network mining income for pure proof-of-work currencies, and by which measure bitcoin network is losing its share at a fast pace.

http://coinchoose.com/charts.php

Take your pick then, prospects of less security and shrinking market share with a 'comforting' cap hoping for a better value gain, or a more realistic scarcity model with better long term security?

eCoinomist

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Quote from: lonesoul on August 16, 2013, 07:48:02 AM

Stop hating and go buy some XPM then sell them in 1 years time and be a happy bunny like everyone else ;-)

Please tell of a single word I wrote that indicates I "hate" primecoin?
In regards to buying Primecoin, I think I already have enough of it for now (in 4 digits, btw).

My OP was simply my logical conclusion about primecoin and where I see it heading, speaking from perspective of someone who has:

1) mined it since day 1
2) mined more than 90% percentile of all XPM miners
3) has seen the up and down of its price from the lowest to the highest
4) have correctly predicted previous price movement.

Take it or leave it, and keep believing in Primecoin's scientific value if you wish, but framing me for hating won't save Primecoin.

eCoinomist

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Quote from: Lauda on August 15, 2013, 07:48:24 PM

Quote from: mustyoshi on August 15, 2013, 07:41:38 PM

I don't understand why people think that a currency should have a cap on it's total supply, are economies a fixed size?

I think the desire for a supply cap stems from early investors wanting to ensure that their hordes are ever increasing in value, ie. completely greed driven.

The population of the planet is growing, and so is the size of the economy, so the currency needs to also grow with the economy.

Lets look at this: if btc is used by 1/10th of the population.. there isn't enough coins so that everyone would own just 1 of it, even if all of them were mined..
so XPM might actually be better off without a cap?

Your argument is based on the assumption that Primecooin will be used by everyone as a currency, which is unlikely to happen 99^99^(99)% of the time.

vinne81

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Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

That's debateable. I'm sure there are world records for climbing the highest tree or eating the biggest cake in like 30 min. That doesn't make those records or actions useful.

Really, Cunningham chain's aren't that useful and I'm sure 95% of the miners don't care about the CC.

Like it or not, Primecoin gives a chance to make HUGE profits to people with access to a few CPU's/Servers, and it's thanks to those CC/Primecoin believers that they can sell their mined coins at that high a price. I am one of them.

FreedomCoin

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Quote from: mustyoshi on August 16, 2013, 12:12:56 PM

Quote from: FreedomCoin on August 16, 2013, 11:58:08 AM

Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

The real question is... what can we do with those long CCs. What use and value do they have? From what ive been told is you can use those CCs to build stronger algorithms.

We can prove or disprove existing conjectures on the nature and distribution of prime numbers.

But what function would that have in real world applications?

mustyoshi

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Quote from: FreedomCoin on August 16, 2013, 11:58:08 AM

Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

The real question is... what can we do with those long CCs. What use and value do they have? From what ive been told is you can use those CCs to build stronger algorithms.

We can prove or disprove existing conjectures on the nature and distribution of prime numbers.

FreedomCoin

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Quote from: mhps on August 16, 2013, 09:18:03 AM

Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

The real question is... what can we do with those long CCs. What use and value do they have? From what ive been told is you can use those CCs to build stronger algorithms.

mhps

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Primecoin is not useless. It allows people to find longer Cunningham chains. It's an interesting pastime -- more interesting , say, than collecting bottle caps. Even if cryptocurrencies cease to exist, hobbists can run primecoin-qt to find prime chains and be happy if one of them claims to be the human who first finds a record length Cunningham chain, and with a cool block address, time-stamped in the blockchain no less, to prove it.

Primecoin is already a success in breaking CC length records. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xpm-primecoin-record-books-253409
It is useful already. Whether you care about it or not is irrelevant.

lonesoul

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Quote from: eCoinomist on August 16, 2013, 01:37:01 AM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 15, 2013, 11:46:18 AM

Is Corn a commodity? Does Corn have a cap? If all farmers produce less Corn, does price increase? If all farmers produce more corn does price decrease?

Yes, Corn has a limited cap to how many you can produce (currently that is resources on Earth to grow corn). Corn does not need to have a cap to be a commodity, because it has utility purpose to either feed humans/animals or used in industrial applications.

What use does Primecoin have besides speculation?

WTS 1 Ham and Cheese Sandwich for 10 XPM.

Now theres a market for Primecoin with a real physical Product being delivered at the end of it (albeit fairly stale), Does that now mean that your arguement is invalid?

Stop hating and go buy some XPM then sell them in 1 years time and be a happy bunny like everyone else ;-)

either that or just concede the arguement, more people have posted better explanations destroying your arguement so your currently fighting a losing battle, If XPM does fall over (which is possible for every single currency on the planet just check out some fiats from recent months.) then feel free to come back and post an "I told you so" post but for now it looks like all your doing is cementing your position without any room to move further down the line.

All the best

yurimir

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Quote from: eCoinomist on August 16, 2013, 01:45:17 AM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 15, 2013, 11:46:18 AM

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get. If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer. Why would people then STOP mining? By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable. Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.

This is not how the dynamics works. Ultimately it's demand that dictates difficulty. Ppl only mine it even if they have asics when it's profitable, and this has been proven again and again with all the alts, like PPC, NMC, WDC, FTC, etc.

Your article [XPM] Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail? - a good example anti-Primecoin propaganda Grin

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: eCoinomist on August 16, 2013, 01:45:17 AM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 15, 2013, 11:46:18 AM

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get. If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer. Why would people then STOP mining? By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable. Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.

This is not how the dynamics works. Ultimately it's demand that dictates difficulty. Ppl only mine it even if they have asics when it's profitable, and this has been proven again and again with all the alts, like PPC, NMC, WDC, FTC, etc.

You certainly have a point there, agreed.

eCoinomist

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Quote from: bcp19 on August 15, 2013, 11:46:18 AM

With the advent of GPUs, Primecoin will become scarcer to get. If they ever create a primecoin ASIC they will become even scarcer. Why would people then STOP mining? By your logic, if we stop, then the coin becomes less scarce and therefore less valuable. Logic would also dictate only a fool would stop mining under these circumstances.

This is not how the dynamics works. Ultimately it's demand that dictates difficulty. Ppl only mine it even if they have asics when it's profitable, and this has been proven again and again with all the alts, like PPC, NMC, WDC, FTC, etc.

eCoinomist

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Quote from: bcp19 on August 15, 2013, 11:46:18 AM

Is Corn a commodity? Does Corn have a cap? If all farmers produce less Corn, does price increase? If all farmers produce more corn does price decrease?

Yes, Corn has a limited cap to how many you can produce (currently that is resources on Earth to grow corn). Corn does not need to have a cap to be a commodity, because it has utility purpose to either feed humans/animals or used in industrial applications.

What use does Primecoin have besides speculation?

erk

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Quote from: Stinky_Pete on August 15, 2013, 09:33:32 PM

Quote from: eCoinomist on August 14, 2013, 02:23:01 AM

2) Primecoin is not a Currency

Prime is less secure than bitcoin, more prone to 51% attack (attack can happen with even less than 50% priming power) as stated in white paper.

Prime still takes minutes to confirm, not 3-4 seconds like Visa => no average Joe will ever use it, even if Sunny has plans to promote it, speaking of which...

There is no plan for any further development. This start to look like PPC - pump and dump scheme, just waiting for the next Primecoin alt to be released with a few parameters changed, like different difficulty algo, for example.

Besides that, Primecoin is pretty much a Bitcoin clone with different hashing algorithm.

So Bitcoin is not a currency either?

Not a good currency I think is what he meant.

Topic: [XPM] Why Primecoin is Useless, Doomed to Fail? - page 3. (Read 13667 times)