y4x.com: BTC awarded on first block that has a bid - page 2.

Nite69

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Quote from: ThePok on December 08, 2012, 07:57:36 PM

Oh man ...

i did send 0.101 BTC to 1Y4wvaZXLNkSfYC4RCL9ZK4gvSYYFZovD ...
my Transaction got included in the Block, but not the Startingbet!!!

That System is bad Sad

Maybe, last bet in the block afterto the block with the initionalbet should be the winner!?!

Same thing happened to me :

http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4gqnxNJP5UK27EhKoc24AvJQtpKMEnY

This time, the initial bid *did not* have a fee, and it got included 3 blocks later!

Of course, the system tells the rules, so this is a known risk to the player. However, it makes the playing less attractive. I would also prefer a slight change to the rules; the winning bet should be searched from the block where the intial bed is *and* earlier blocks.

But of course, this is my opinion (and ThePok's ?), but the host defines the rules...

Edit: hmm.. I think I actually won, but I only won back my bet, without the initial bed. And minus fees, of course :-D

Edit2: Here is the transaction where the win came to my wallet, if you are interested:
http://blockchain.info/tx-index/36240968/2487f45d1b3c369b1f493dbe35f00ab0224887f52fe6595ee409cda7a1ed997e

dooglus

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Quote from: BitcoinHoarder on December 11, 2012, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: Nite69 on December 11, 2012, 02:00:34 AM

Maybe initial bets 0.01, 0.02,0.04, 0.08 etc so people can try martingale ;-)

This is different in that you can win many multiples of your bet (not just 1x like black/red on roulette) if you get in late enough to get the whole pot. You can only martingale if nobody else is playing against you.

So it's not strictly martingale betting. But players could still keep 'moving up' to the next stake level until they win, making it very martingale-like. If you bet close to (but higher than) the highest existing bet each time then your winnings will be very close to, and possibly more than, the sum of your bets.

BitcoinHoarder

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Quote from: Nite69 on December 11, 2012, 02:00:34 AM

Maybe initial bets 0.01, 0.02,0.04, 0.08 etc so people can try martingale ;-)

This is different in that you can win many multiples of your bet (not just 1x like black/red on roulette) if you get in late enough to get the whole pot. You can only martingale if nobody else is playing against you.

dooglus

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Quote from: Nite69 on December 11, 2012, 02:00:34 AM

Maybe initial bets 0.01, 0.02,0.04, 0.08 etc so people can try martingale ;-)

That's a fun idea.

Nite69

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Maybe initial bets 0.01, 0.02,0.04, 0.08 etc so people can try martingale ;-)

BitcoinHoarder

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Quote from: Ploo on December 10, 2012, 05:09:13 PM

Maybe you could have a less frequent, bigger stakes game? 0.5 BTC every 4 hours or so.

For sure, I like the idea of bigger stakes. So far I am keeping larger stakes for events... like I am going to have a big stakes for New Years Day. That reminds me, I should add the New Years stake.

Ploo

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Maybe you could have a less frequent, bigger stakes game? 0.5 BTC every 4 hours or so.

BitcoinHoarder

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Quote from: ThePok on December 10, 2012, 04:46:52 PM

I payed Fee, and one Minit later comes the Block, still didnt get in Sad

That Game makes no fun this way Sad

Its not realy about who bids last Sad

Yes, iam crying loud as a Baby Sad

But you need Happy users, Happy users play again, even if they lose, but in a fair way Wink

http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4TGvLDohNfNkVMKCzt6DJ1G7HEhccdy

You placed your bid 12 minutes after the address was revealed and you are not happy? That's pretty risky, people who win just place their bid immediately and then pay close attention to whether anyone is trying to outbid them.

In form of an update I added a small amount 0.001 for those who don't want to commit a lot of BTC and I staggered the start time. So 0.001 starts 1 minute between, 0.01 is 2 minutes, 0.05 is 5 minutes and 0.1 is ten minutes.

Enjoy!

ThePok

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I payed Fee, and one Minit later comes the Block, still didnt get in Sad

That Game makes no fun this way Sad

Its not realy about who bids last Sad

Yes, iam crying loud as a Baby Sad

But you need Happy users, Happy users play again, even if they lose, but in a fair way Wink

http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4TGvLDohNfNkVMKCzt6DJ1G7HEhccdy

dooglus

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Quote from: Ploo on December 09, 2012, 08:58:26 PM

The problem with having your transaction more appealing/accessible to miners is the scenario in which only your transactions are included in the next block and your competitors/starting bid aren't.

So long as my transactions all get in, I'm OK. At least then I break even (except for the fee).

The problem is when mine don't get in. Then I lose.

Ploo

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The problem with having your transaction more appealing/accessible to miners is the scenario in which only your transactions are included in the next block and your competitors/starting bid aren't.

dooglus

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Quote from: BitcoinHoarder on December 09, 2012, 07:44:07 PM

How many nodes are you connected to with your sending client? Blockchain.info is very easy to get broadcast to because they have 2500+ connections with their custom implementation. You need more connections to increase your chances to get to miners maybe?

14 at the moment.

BitcoinHoarder

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Quote from: dooglus on December 09, 2012, 06:54:37 PM

Quote from: BitcoinHoarder on December 09, 2012, 06:28:31 PM

Sounds like the miner didn't have your tx... or he discriminates against high fees Cheesy

My tx had a lot of small inputs - which is why the default client decided to include 3 times the usual fee I guess.

The miner may have decided it's better to include 3 small transactions rather than my 1 big one.

It just happened again by the way. This time both transactions had the same minimum fee, but only the initial bet got into the block:
http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4jkMHYjG8M9GeTgCZvkmsQLdwP9Q9me

In this case my transaction was smaller than the first bet, since it only had one input.

How many nodes are you connected to with your sending client? Blockchain.info is very easy to get broadcast to because they have 2500+ connections with their custom implementation. You need more connections to increase your chances to get to miners maybe?

Nite69

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I think rolltime functionality has increased the possibility that a transaction is not included in the next block. Pools can re-use the same block longer time.

dooglus

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Quote from: BitcoinHoarder on December 09, 2012, 06:28:31 PM

Sounds like the miner didn't have your tx... or he discriminates against high fees Cheesy

My tx had a lot of small inputs - which is why the default client decided to include 3 times the usual fee I guess.

The miner may have decided it's better to include 3 small transactions rather than my 1 big one.

It just happened again by the way. This time both transactions had the same minimum fee, but only the initial bet got into the block:
http://blockchain.info/address/1Y4jkMHYjG8M9GeTgCZvkmsQLdwP9Q9me

In this case my transaction was smaller than the first bet, since it only had one input.

BitcoinHoarder

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Quote from: dooglus on December 09, 2012, 06:13:13 PM

Quote from: Nite69 on December 09, 2012, 05:19:32 PM

You get better chances, if you pay the transaction fee :-D. I just played all 0.01 0.05 and 0.1 .. and of course, the biggest one did not have the fee included -> lost that one.

In the case I'm thinking of I paid 0.0015 in fees, the initial bet only paid 0.0005, but still the initial bet got into a block before I did. Both transactions hit blockchain.info long before the block was found. The miner just decided to include the tx with the smaller fee rather than mine for some reason.

Sounds like the miner didn't have your tx... or he discriminates against high fees Cheesy

dooglus

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Quote from: Nite69 on December 09, 2012, 05:19:32 PM

You get better chances, if you pay the transaction fee :-D. I just played all 0.01 0.05 and 0.1 .. and of course, the biggest one did not have the fee included -> lost that one.

In the case I'm thinking of I paid 0.0015 in fees, the initial bet only paid 0.0005, but still the initial bet got into a block before I did. Both transactions hit blockchain.info long before the block was found. The miner just decided to include the tx with the smaller fee rather than mine for some reason.

Nite69

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Activity: 477

Merit: 500

You get better chances, if you pay the transaction fee :-D. I just played all 0.01 0.05 and 0.1 .. and of course, the biggest one did not have the fee included -> lost that one.

But that's the spirit of the game :-D. pay you taxes and you get luckier ;-)

Actually, you can increase your chances, if you know bitcoin. I do not know if it's good or bad Undecided

Anyway, here are some basics I'm aware of:
- pay the fee, your payment is more likely included in the block
- use a bitocoin client with as many connections to the network as possible (maybe forced connections to largest pools?).
- follow blockchain.info main page also and refresh it just before you hit 'send'. don't hit, if there is a new block ;-)

BitcoinHoarder

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Quote from: dooglus on December 09, 2012, 01:57:49 PM

Quote from: ThePok on December 09, 2012, 04:53:02 AM

You should change the System! Wating for one Conformation for Initialbet is not bad.

I've had the opposite situation, where I was the only one playing, and got my bid in in plenty of time, but then only the initial bet made it into the block that was eventually found.

It was one of those times when there was almost an hour between blocks, and so thousands of transactions were waiting to get into blocks. I just got unlucky and didn't make it into the same block as the initial bet.

Maybe it would be a reasonable change to make it so that the winner is the biggest payment confirmed in the same block as the initial bet or before, and gets all the confirmed bets so far. Only payments which get confirmed later than the initial payment go to the house. I don't know how that would affect the house though. Obviously it would reduce the house take, but I don't know whether it would turn the game into a losing proposition for the house or not.

The initial bet is intended to just be a sweetener to get people bidding. The point of the game is not so that a single player can scoop up the initial bet while playing against themselves

. We are worrying about the small case where the game is designed to fit a large case where there are 2 or more people on a pot. For the past week the game has been essentially free BTC because no two players have been on it. I don't mind at all, I have paid every game, I just don't think there is cause to make a more complicated ruleset because people want to win the initial pot. And for the record we are even discussing a rare case, the initial bet (over 99% of the time) almost always goes to the top bidder.

dooglus

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Quote from: ThePok on December 09, 2012, 04:53:02 AM

You should change the System! Wating for one Conformation for Initialbet is not bad.

I've had the opposite situation, where I was the only one playing, and got my bid in in plenty of time, but then only the initial bet made it into the block that was eventually found.

It was one of those times when there was almost an hour between blocks, and so thousands of transactions were waiting to get into blocks. I just got unlucky and didn't make it into the same block as the initial bet.

Maybe it would be a reasonable change to make it so that the winner is the biggest payment confirmed in the same block as the initial bet or before, and gets all the confirmed bets so far. Only payments which get confirmed later than the initial payment go to the house. I don't know how that would affect the house though. Obviously it would reduce the house take, but I don't know whether it would turn the game into a losing proposition for the house or not.

Topic: y4x.com: BTC awarded on first block that has a bid - page 2. (Read 13044 times)