"You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

Herbarium

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Quote from: BurtW on April 27, 2017, 12:27:52 PM

Quote from: olarsson on April 27, 2017, 09:50:32 AM

Does it yet exist any person who has been contact by their tax authority with the message "You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

I do not know about any such person.

After my arrest by homeland security the prosecutor in the case threatened to turn everything over to the IRS if I did not cooperate. I paid all the taxes and did not have fear of the IRS so I did not have to cooperate and was in a much stronger position.

However my criminal attorney advised me to get a tax attorney on retainer just in case she carried out her threat. So, I ended up having to hire three separate law firms: 1) a law firm in California to handle the criminal charges against me, 2) a law firm in Colorado to handle the civil charges against all the seized property and 3) a law firm from New York to handle any tax issues if necessary.

Luckily, since the taxes were all paid, I did not have to use my New York law firm.

that must have been a horrible experience

hope it ended well for you

fucking IRS

European Central Bank

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it's like anything else. if a huge sum arrives in your bank account then at some point it's possible they're gonna ask where it came from.

it's down to you to declare it like tons of other non bitcoin cases. if you don't you may be fine. or not.

stergium

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Quote from: xFiber on April 28, 2017, 02:53:38 PM

Quote from: olarsson on April 27, 2017, 09:50:32 AM

Does it yet exist any person who has been contact by their tax authority with the message "You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

I do not know about any such person.

I'm my country I am not obliged to pay taxes on my bitcoin wich is very nice. I hope this will remain this way forever

. At the moment I've not got my bank account connected to an exchange so I should be good I guess.

yes that is right we also do not paying tax on the income that we get from bitcoin. in fact in most of the countries as still do do not consider bitcoin as legal currency, therefore we are not paying taxes in these areas because in such areas they still do not consider bitcoin as legal currency. and therefore they hae the policy not to pay tax on illegal item and for most of the time we play gambling at all.

dothebeats

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Haven't heard of such cases yet. Afaik if your government considers bitcoin as a legal tender, then any gains made with bitcoin would be subjected to tax. Also, bitcoin must be regulated first before the government can tax it, or at least that is how it works here in our country. 3 years with bitcoin and never have paid anything to the government in regards to taxes.

ant200709

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You can pay all taxes and to sleep easily. In Russia, there are benefits for entrepreneurs. in 2017, I can show the income from the sale of crypto currencies to 2 300 000 dollars. Please, who cares!!! made a website: taxlow.expert

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: qwik2learn on April 28, 2017, 03:21:58 PM

I disagree with the idea that using bitcoin would probably lead to a tax evasion charge, consider this:
Has normal use of bitcoin ever led to a tax evasion charge?

Not to my knowledge.

Quote

I do not expect that IRS will open this can of worms, it is more reasonable to expect the status quo to continue; despite the fact that very few tax returns mention bitcoin, normal users have not seen tax evasion charges at all!

I predict that you will eat your words in a few years. For the average user there is no need to disclose anything about bitcoin to the IRS, and IRS does not have the resources to pursue an average user.

I think that's right. Unless you are audited or target for something else or turn more than $10k into fiat it is simply not cost effective to pursue you.

Quote

I never have filed taxes on anything because I will not be voluntarily paying that protection money as a matter of principle, the principle of economic freedom! In the USA there were supposed to be NO debtor's prisons and unlimited right to contract, also no search and seizure without a plausible link to a crime of harm. Corporations get away with tax evasion by way of their transfer pricing practices, yet you want bitcoin users to pay taxes because you are in fear of a tax evasion charge.

Corporations do get away with evasion as do the wealthy, it's terrible. Terrible because no one is doing anything about it. But since it's the law our outrage means absolutely zero in court. I don't "want" bitcoin users to pay taxes but they should know that the law applies to them, fair or not. Since I know the rules I'm not afraid of the IRS.

raven7886

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Quote from: bitbunnny on April 29, 2017, 01:22:00 PM

If tax authorities are going to contact you because of Bitcoin made profit that depends on the country you live in and the law. I don't know such persons and in my country Bitcoin isn't regulated yet and so far private persons who don't have registered business don't pay taxes on such profit. But that doesn't mean this is not going to happen in the future.

But I could not understand how tax authorities will be coming to know about my involvement with bitcoins. I am already paying taxes for my day job and I am just saving bitcoins by working in my leisure times. I am not in plan to cash out them into fiats and hence I believe, I never need to pay any taxes for the bitcoins I am just earning and saving.

bitbunnny

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WOLF.BET - Provably Fair Crypto Casino

If tax authorities are going to contact you because of Bitcoin made profit that depends on the country you live in and the law. I don't know such persons and in my country Bitcoin isn't regulated yet and so far private persons who don't have registered business don't pay taxes on such profit. But that doesn't mean this is not going to happen in the future.

iamTom123

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 27, 2017, 09:52:38 AM

How is that any different from having coinbase for example handing details to the IRS for example? Its pretty much the same thing If you ask me and also, Its probably just a matter of time since they will actually regulate bitcoin and tax it.

Yes, this is already in the news. The USA government via the IRS is now exerting some considerable effort to make Bitcoin holders pay tax for possible profits gained in any Bitcoin transactions. And this is quite expected as there is no exemption as far as the government is concerned. I am in fact lucky that I do not live in USA because our government here is not yet so interested in taxing Bitcoin gainers. However, this can be short-lived as any government is always looking to boost revenues for more projects and concerns.

thebatletbet

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Quote from: olarsson on April 27, 2017, 09:50:32 AM

Does it yet exist any person who has been contact by their tax authority with the message "You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

I do not know about any such person.

in my country bitcoin not yet regulated so iam not pay tax from my capital bitcoin
if you want pay tax, youre bitcoin must regualted in youre country

equator

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Quote from: CyberKuro on April 28, 2017, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: Qartada on April 27, 2017, 11:24:26 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 27, 2017, 09:52:38 AM

How is that any different from having coinbase for example handing details to the IRS for example? Its pretty much the same thing If you ask me and also, Its probably just a matter of time since they will actually regulate bitcoin and tax it.

They can only regulate Bitcoin that they know about. Anyone that really wants to launder their money or avoid paying taxes will probably be capable of it unless governments do some very complicated analysis.

It seems unlikely that many people will be contacted for avoiding tax if they were actually trying.

Only works if you ever did a transaction through exchanges which can be traced since users have to identify themselves before use its services. I don't know how gov will tax a person without any evidence, just like a transaction between two persons (buy and sell), it's untraceable. However, my country still not regulate or identify bitcoin to get taxes and I guess not even in the nearly future, maybe in 5 years later.

That is true that if you have purchased the bitcoin through fiat currency then it is compulsory needed to show the transactions in tax, but that is not needed if you have traded very small trades. But if you show in tax also it is not bad as it will gain you only with other headaches if in future it becomes compulsory.

CyberKuro

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Quote from: Qartada on April 27, 2017, 11:24:26 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 27, 2017, 09:52:38 AM

How is that any different from having coinbase for example handing details to the IRS for example? Its pretty much the same thing If you ask me and also, Its probably just a matter of time since they will actually regulate bitcoin and tax it.

They can only regulate Bitcoin that they know about. Anyone that really wants to launder their money or avoid paying taxes will probably be capable of it unless governments do some very complicated analysis.

It seems unlikely that many people will be contacted for avoiding tax if they were actually trying.

Only works if you ever did a transaction through exchanges which can be traced since users have to identify themselves before use its services. I don't know how gov will tax a person without any evidence, just like a transaction between two persons (buy and sell), it's untraceable. However, my country still not regulate or identify bitcoin to get taxes and I guess not even in the nearly future, maybe in 5 years later.

qwik2learn

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Quote from: RodeoX on April 27, 2017, 12:33:44 PM

The courts are full of people who believed that they are somehow exempt from taxes. In the U.S. there is no such thing. As Burt mentioned above you owe taxes no matter how you got the money. It may have been a big gift, you may have found a gold ring on the beach, or maybe you mined a gold nugget. It does not matter, you owe tax on it.

What is sad is how many bitcoin users have deluded themselves into thinking they can't be caught. They are going to profit big from the best economic opportunity they have, then loose it all to the IRS and wind up in jail because they wanted to evade taxes. Why do that when all you have to pay is capitol gains on your profits?
I know for a fact that the tools to find bitcoin users have been under development for a while now. Every Tx you have ever done is on the blockchain and a few years from now the IRS is going to come for the money you owe. And they don't accept excuses.

I disagree with the idea that using bitcoin would probably lead to a tax evasion charge, consider this:
Has normal use of bitcoin ever led to a tax evasion charge?

I do not expect that IRS will open this can of worms, it is more reasonable to expect the status quo to continue; despite the fact that very few tax returns mention bitcoin, normal users have not seen tax evasion charges at all!

I predict that you will eat your words in a few years. For the average user there is no need to disclose anything about bitcoin to the IRS, and IRS does not have the resources to pursue an average user.

I never have filed taxes on anything because I will not be voluntarily paying that protection money as a matter of principle, the principle of economic freedom! In the USA there were supposed to be NO debtor's prisons and unlimited right to contract, also no search and seizure without a plausible link to a crime of harm. Corporations get away with tax evasion by way of their transfer pricing practices, yet you want bitcoin users to pay taxes because you are in fear of a tax evasion charge.

xFiber

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Quote from: olarsson on April 27, 2017, 09:50:32 AM

Does it yet exist any person who has been contact by their tax authority with the message "You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

I do not know about any such person.

I'm my country I am not obliged to pay taxes on my bitcoin wich is very nice. I hope this will remain this way forever

. At the moment I've not got my bank account connected to an exchange so I should be good I guess.

Kevin77

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Quote from: olarsson on April 27, 2017, 09:50:32 AM

Does it yet exist any person who has been contact by their tax authority with the message "You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

I do not know about any such person.

I guess I never need to worry about such a warning call as I am not converting my bitcoins into cash and more importantly I am not using any web wallets. Only few exchanges are having my email ID but I believe they are beyond the control of my government/tax authorities.

I believe no one will be bothering about my bitcoin saving. Hence I believe I am safer side already.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

The courts are full of people who believed that they are somehow exempt from taxes. In the U.S. there is no such thing. As Burt mentioned above you owe taxes no matter how you got the money. It may have been a big gift, you may have found a gold ring on the beach, or maybe you mined a gold nugget. It does not matter, you owe tax on it.

What is sad is how many bitcoin users have deluded themselves into thinking they can't be caught. They are going to profit big from the best economic opportunity they have, then loose it all to the IRS and wind up in jail because they wanted to evade taxes. Why do that when all you have to pay is capitol gains on your profits?
I know for a fact that the tools to find bitcoin users have been under development for a while now. Every Tx you have ever done is on the blockchain and a few years from now the IRS is going to come for the money you owe. And they don't accept excuses.

BurtW

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Quote from: olarsson on April 27, 2017, 09:50:32 AM

Does it yet exist any person who has been contact by their tax authority with the message "You have not payed you Bitcoin capital gain tax"?

I do not know about any such person.

After my arrest by homeland security the prosecutor in the case threatened to turn everything over to the IRS if I did not cooperate. I paid all the taxes and did not have fear of the IRS so I did not have to cooperate and was in a much stronger position.

However my criminal attorney advised me to get a tax attorney on retainer just in case she carried out her threat. So, I ended up having to hire three separate law firms: 1) a law firm in California to handle the criminal charges against me, 2) a law firm in Colorado to handle the civil charges against all the seized property and 3) a law firm from New York to handle any tax issues if necessary.

Luckily, since the taxes were all paid, I did not have to use my New York law firm.

BurtW

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All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

My ears were burning. Did someone mention my name?

I have paid capital gains tax on every Satoshi of profit I ever made from 2011 till now. I did not get any thank you note from the IRS. However I have read somewhere that the IRS believes that a vast majority of Bitcoin traders do not pay the taxes on their capital gains. I am not saying whether that is true or not. What I read is that the IRS believes that. Therefore, you can expect them to try their best to find those that are not paying the tax and get them to pay it. That is their job after all.

Quote from: ImHash on April 27, 2017, 11:58:37 AM

Hopefully everyone will realize in time that if you are not using government properties and resources to earn money and do business you are not suppose to pay any taxes especially if you are mining.

Wrong. Even if you barter it is taxable.
Mining is taxed as ordinary income.

Quote from: ImHash on April 27, 2017, 11:58:37 AM

Someone gifting you money then should you pay tax on it?

Yes, if the gift is over a certain amount.

Quote from: ImHash on April 27, 2017, 11:58:37 AM

Who says so?

The IRS.

Quote from: ImHash on April 27, 2017, 11:58:37 AM

Those people writing the laws are influenced by the banks and government agencies, you shouldn't follow any law as if it's the right one.

Brave words. Ever been thrown in jail? Willing to go to jail for that belief?

Quote from: ImHash on April 27, 2017, 11:58:37 AM

I don't know about big companies but individuals if know how to deal with bitcoin will never have to be worried about taxation.

Bullshit.

ImHash

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Hopefully everyone will realize in time that if you are not using government properties and resources to earn money and do business you are not suppose to pay any taxes especially if you are mining.
Someone gifting you money then should you pay tax on it?
Who says so?
Those people writing the laws are influenced by the banks and government agencies, you shouldn't follow any law as if it's the right one.
I don't know about big companies but individuals if know how to deal with bitcoin will never have to be worried about taxation.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: Qartada on April 27, 2017, 11:24:26 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on April 27, 2017, 09:52:38 AM

How is that any different from having coinbase for example handing details to the IRS for example? Its pretty much the same thing If you ask me and also, Its probably just a matter of time since they will actually regulate bitcoin and tax it.

They can only regulate Bitcoin that they know about. Anyone that really wants to launder their money or avoid paying taxes will probably be capable of it unless governments do some very complicated analysis.

It seems unlikely that many people will be contacted for avoiding tax if they were actually trying.

they can't tax it unless you mix fiat with the business

meaning if you trade on an exchange and link your bank account there so that they can know who you are and how much you are trading. otherwise it is easy to deny possessing bitcoin

although you may end up like Burt if you are in US

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