Topic: You want the bear market to stop? Here are some things you can do :) - page 5. (Read 1062 times)

Spending Bitcoin is in my opinion the best way to help this ecosystem. Bitcoin is money and for that reason needs to circulate as money.

People quite often refrain from spending their coins because of the fear of losing out when the price starts increasing again. This can be easily avoided by buying back every single satoshi that you spent, and the best thing is that you can do this at any price (high or low). The more we spend our coins, the more merchants are willing to accept it, and for that reason the more utility value Bitcoin obtains. We are here together and should work together to make it a success.

I use my local fastfood delivery service that I pay for in Bitcoin. It is that fastfood isn't healthy to eat every day, otherwise just for the sake of using Bitcoin I would order every day. 

I believe davis196's proposal to be worth considered to be added as an option by payment processors or by e-commerce plugins.

Obviously, it would be only something like a "promotional offer" and not the standard option in e-commerce. In the world of "physical goods", otherwise the risk for the merchant is too high.

But in the world of self-published digital goods, I can imagine it to work fine. Imagine you're selling an ebook for 0.001 BTC, with Bitcoin at $6000 ($6). You give your clients the option to pay back the difference if Bitcoin goes up in the next month (there must be a clear deadline). Now Bitcoin goes up to $8000. The merchant would now refund 2$ to the buyer. If he held the BTC, then he still made $6 profit. But even if he feared a crash and sold the 0.001 to get 6 USD, then he still has $4 per book (as the digital e-book copy doesn't cost anything).

The merchant could obviously set a limit in his terms & conditions, like "up to 50% of the item's value".

I think this is a cool idea, and would like to see an implementation.

Unfortunately, I heard lots of complaints from BTC-accepting businesses that in bull markets people are very hesitant to spend their BTC and that their revenue decreases in these periods. In 2017, the rising transaction fees were another factor, but in this case we have to hope for Lightning and sidechains.

Current market condition and situation is very bad for crypto world because more regulations and banning from all over the world, I think this situation will change soon, if you look at big companies all involved in ICO and crypto business, if more people knows about crypto and block chain tehcnology then it will be more advantage, Crypto should change in the world economy, who knows what will happen after 5 years in crypto currency?Its very disappointing to see how much it had drop even when we see it already tested the support level a lot of times but now it seem to test again the patience of the holders. I'm beginning to think the tokens are not worth holding but to be dumped right when it bubbles, dumping seem to be the real way to make money and last in crypto business.

Excellent suggestions. I am always happy to take bitcoin for work or trade. In reality  bitcoin is just a method of bartering-for example: i you want to buy a consignment of fruit, I want to buy but i don't have cash but i am a printer and can exchange that but you don't need print but need fertiliser, the fertiliser guy needs printing; so you give me fruit i give fertiliser guy printing and he gives you fertiliser, everyone is happy. Bitcoin is in effect a token that allows you to trade with each other without cash and where there is a value difference. 

Yes i understand what you mean. If you want the market bull run, lets use bitcoin more. If many peoples using bitcoin, then the demands of bitcoin will be increase. When the demands increase, the price will increase as well. The cryptocurrency market need more real users in their daily.

we don't live in a perfect world which means this is not possible because it will simply be abused. this can actually become a way of earning money for some people if they wished. for instance looking at last year (2017) you can see bitcoin has been on the rise for at least 70% of the year. one way of speculating could have been speculating the rise then going to this particular shop and buying stuff. then when the price goes up you ask for refund. the result would be a lot of free items in your possession while you keep getting your money back.

usually the merchants who start accepting bitcoin payments increase their revenue automatically, they don't need additional incentive to bring in bitcoin paying customers. if anything a simple discount (which can be the extra fee that credit  card companies charge the merchant when using them) can be used.

I totally agree with this thought. The only thing that will make the prices going up again is trying to make bitcoin usable again. We should spread the words around the world that how easier using bitcoin as a payment. We could make it by accepted bitcoin to pay our work or to pay our thing that we sell. Togather we can!!

I think, also, that the more people want to use it (to extract value from its BTC into fiat) the more likely the market its going to react. Markets have their cycle and if the overall trend is selling, because more people sell then rather buy, the voila... nothing to do but stay and play the waiting game, sometimes you have a good year, sometimes you gotta be prepared.

True. I would even say it hasn't "become" that, but it has been so since at least 2013. But is this really good for Bitcoin ? My intention is to (help to) change that.
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't say that ETFs "ruin" Bitcoin's purpose. In reality, an ETF has nothing to do with Bitcoin's "value proposal". But an ETF can also not be prevented. If Wall Street wants to gamble with BTC, there's nothing we can do. However, I would not overestimate the influence an ETF can have. It could increase volatility temporally, but it could also be the other way around.

And that's not good, like I said

Again. There is a lot of news driven speculation, yes. The purpose of this thread is to change something. If you want to continue with the news-driven, stock-like boom-bust cycles it's up to you but then BTC will bubble and crash again and again. The community should, imo, change its mentality a bit. Less get-rich-quick scheme, more currency usage. Then Bitcoin will eventually grow organically. It's true, we need some technical solutions to achieve mass adoption, but LN is slowly maturing and in 1-2 years it can be stable enough for everyday usage.

Bitcoin has become an asset purely driven by speculation. I can say that at least 90% of bitcoin users think of bitcoin as an asset(investment) than thinking of it as a currency. There are actual influencers in the crypto market. And more buy orders doesn't mean people are buying more. It can simply mean that one person is placing multiple buy orders and selling them immediately, or in a short while. The same can happen for sell orders.

ETF ruins bitcoin's purpose. It makes people think bitcoin is an actual asset(it qualifies as an asset, since currencies are also taken as assets in accounting terms but in economical terms it isn't).  You're using a centralized third party to get sheet of paper that says you own this much bitcoin. Do you see the amount of irony?

People are treating bitcoin as a stock, and not as a currency,like I said. And if you still don't realize that bitcoin is only driven by news(along with demand and supply) nowadays, you need to start catching up. Last year's bitcoin gold forks drove people to insane amounts to buy bitcoin and Jamie Dimon's criticism drove people to crash bitcoin, if that isn't news driven speculation, then I don't know what is.

You're partly right, in my opinion, and that's also the reason why I can imagine that there is a possibility we've already seen the low in the $6000 area which holds surprisingly strong.

But on the other hand, there are other factors that can lead to instability and volatility, and could drive us to another "capitulation crash" like in January 2015. The most important of these factors is the sheer number of totally worthless ICO projects and low-quality altcoins that have get far too much attention in 2017 and early 2018. Some users of these coins are still hodling even if they've lost 90% of their value, and even they will eventually capitulate totally. And Bitcoin can be driven down by this phenomenon - take into account that the "dominance" value currently sits only at 50%, and in 2013/14 it was at 80-90%. So the Bitcoin problems in 2013/14 were largely "homemade" (Mt. Gox etc.) while now the "crypto market" as a whole could drive Bitcoin a bit further down.

However, that's far from sure, and so there is some room for optimism. Above all if many people follow the advices I gave in the OP I currently think there is a 30-40% probability we've already seen the low of this cycle, while there is a 60-70% likelihood that we see lower lows. Maybe not 3000, but 4500-5000 is very realistic if there are no positive news nor a boost in adoption.

I don't think we will see Bitcoin paper because its too similar to fiat currency, but I agree with you that once ETF approves crypto the market will pump.

If there are only a couple of dudes following these advices, then you're totally right. But the goal is - like you said - to increase usage as a currency. This gives Bitcoin more stability and viability.

Without currency usage, Bitcoin is only an asset which fluctuates purely driven by speculation. There is no scarcity because there are thousands of other coins that could be a "digital gold", too. Currency usage, as I explained in my last post, leads to a more stable market due to more buy and sell orders. You can see it that way: Every good or service offered for Bitcoin is actually a buy order. The more buy orders, the less likely is a crash.

Cool

Ah, finally some harsh disagreement. Popcorn!

No, FOMO is exactly one of the signs of the current "speculation-driven usage" I would like to see replaced, at least in part, by "currency usage". If the advices ("indoctrination", as you call it) I gave were followed by more people, then we would actually see less FOMO, and less sharp price increases. We would perhaps take years to find a new ATH. But at the same time it's a sane and sustainable growth, and we likely won't see harsh crashes again.


If you call a couple of advices in a forum "indoctrination", then yes, I like to indoctrinate Bitcoin users (And no, I'm not a big Bitcoin holder.)

I'm actually using them.

Usability could be better, that's true. So here's a new advice I would like to add:

• If you have an idea how to improve usability, then propose and discuss it! If you're a developer, try at least a proof of concept. Or simply implement it . Bitcoin is an open source project, so you can do literally what you want with the protocol!

IMO we can't compare the previous crash and its reasons to the current one because back then there were completely different things driving it.
-lower exchange liquidity, lower market cap, less countries involved, basically no laws and regulations, almost no real adoption
And at times like that we had china opening exchanges in 2013 that ended up faking volume and driving the price up hand in hand with bot willy. In 2014 it all went down to hell with the collapse of the biggest exchange and right when the bear market was starting to stabilize came chinese exchange bans that completely nullified the whole 2013 rally. All factors that drove the price down were lying dead in early 2015. Such a crash with the current state of affairs is hard to imagine.

If you honestly want the bear market to end, you should be brave enough to hold your coins and stop dumping it at a loss.
The more coins are dumped at a miserable price, the more bearish the market gets.

Im currently interning at an ICO Consultancy and my boss offered to pay my bonus in either cash or its worth in BTCs. Ah Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll get half and half.

Thanks for the advice! However, I've been doing it for some time now.

So you want PROPAGANDA AND FOMO right ?

• It does not matter how many scams on exchanges and hacks happen
• No one cares about volatility and ICO scams
• No one cares about forks and alternative coins that have THE SAME background technology
• No one cares about early adopters indoctrinating others to use bitcoins while they hoard and then SELL on the peak converting them to DOLLARS or EUROS

All you want is to indoctrinate others so your bitcoins keep going up and the bear market stops. USE THEM YOURSELF, and stop telling others what to do with their "money". And stop hoarding them, the truth is that people are selling because Bitcoin is not working as a currency and it is not working as a store of value, it is hard to use and insecure for the average user.

People are selling mining devices, hardware wallets, etc. Which they sell in traditional money, instead of not just Bitcoin.

BTCubblecoin success depends on propaganda and someone pumping the coin. Do not be the Greater Fool.

Dude.. All these don't help to stop the bear market. This is just forcing users to adopt more into bitcoin, and these have tiny to almost no effect on the market. In reality, the bear market is in such state only because of a boring first 8 months of this year. There's nothing much really happen, I swear if you talk about ETF, I'll pin you down. ETF is shit and has only the market conditions worse because people are so into it.

Lightning network hasn't got off to a great start, what we need is some really good news, or something that would actually inspire the community.

All I can do is do this point. The rest I still believe in crypto and hold my coins. And as a trader, I have to keep trading.