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Topic: Zero interest Bitcoin mortgages - page 2. (Read 3941 times)

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Everyone Is A Bank
June 29, 2011, 06:37:33 AM
#33


 But once again, you aren't answering the whole question.  Where. Are. The. Coins. Mined???  Who's. Hardware?  Who's. Electricity???

I. Don't. Care!


 If the individual lenders are mining the coins, why even lend $100 in the first place?  I can mine bitcoins now without having to lend $100.  

 As a lender my hashrate is vitally important.  At 350Mhash/sec will take me about 35 days to generate $170 in Bitcoins (assuming $20/BTC).  

 Concept is dead if lenders use their own hardware and electricity.

But isn't mining competitive? (correct me if I'm wrong).  The difference here is it becomes exclusive
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 252
Until the end
June 29, 2011, 06:12:55 AM
#32


 You still aren't answering my question.  WHO physically mines the Bitcoins?  Where are they mined?  Is it a server farm?  Is the guy that took out the loan responsible for mining them with his own equipment?  How do you determine the queue for mining coins?

The lender gets to mine them.  If he can't or doesn;t want to then he sells his right to a server farm or whatever.

If I take a $100,000 mortgage out, by your model, I would have to repay $170 back to 1000 people.  My hash rate is at 350 Mhash/sec.  At that rate, and at the current difficulty, I generate .26 BTC per day.  If I have to pay back $170,000 worth of BTC, I will be mining for 91 years.  And that's only if the difficulty stays the same.  If I am one of the guys that loans out $100, how long before I get my money back?

your hash rate is irrelevent, as the borrower you are not the one mining.

All you have is a concept, can you give an actual example with math to back it up based on current difficulty and say $20 per BTC?  

exactly, it's a great concept.  look at my post number, i'm new to all this.

 Look at my post number.  I'm new too.  

 But once again, you aren't answering the whole question.  Where. Are. The. Coins. Mined???  Who's. Hardware?  Who's. Electricity???

 If the individual lenders are mining the coins, why even lend $100 in the first place?  I can mine bitcoins now without having to lend $100.  

 As a lender my hashrate is vitally important.  At 350Mhash/sec will take me about 35 days to generate $170 in Bitcoins (assuming $20/BTC).  

 Concept is dead if lenders use their own hardware and electricity.
full member
Activity: 168
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Everyone Is A Bank
June 29, 2011, 06:11:20 AM
#31
Yes but as I understand it it's pretty hit and miss, and anyone can mine the coins out from under you.  Under this concept only you can mine those coins.

Each miner gets an amount of BTC that is proportional to his MegaHash/second (MHPS) rate. There is no practical way that you can change that.



can you expand on that?  how exactly are these allocated?
full member
Activity: 168
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Everyone Is A Bank
June 29, 2011, 01:23:44 AM
#30
raresaturn,  do you mind explaining your understanding of how bitcoin works to us?

I do not mean to pick on you, but the best way to help someone understand something is to have them explain to you how it works.

Sure, as I understand it each transaction has to be processed by a miner, for which they are rewarded with coins.  But I am not totally sure how the transactions are allocated, is it random? Or to multiple persons work on the same transaction and the first one to finish gets the coins?  Let me know if I'm misunderstanding it, I only learnt about it last week.
full member
Activity: 168
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Everyone Is A Bank
June 29, 2011, 01:20:11 AM
#29
Here's what I don't understand - where is the value in that?


1. I don't need rights to mine. I can mine all day long in a pool or solo - how is this different?


Yes but as I understand it it's pretty hit and miss, and anyone can mine the coins out from under you.  Under this concept only you can mine those coins.


2. supposing this somehow makes mining easier(the alternative) then it must make mining harder for everyone else. The # of bitcoins is limited to 21 million, so making 1 million free for one person means there's only 20 million left for everyone else to mine.

why is it limited to 21 million coins? Is that an arbitary number?
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
June 29, 2011, 01:19:09 AM
#28
raresaturn,  do you mind explaining your understanding of how bitcoin works to us?

I do not mean to pick on you, but the best way to help someone understand something is to have them explain to you how it works.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Everyone Is A Bank
June 29, 2011, 01:16:48 AM
#27


 You still aren't answering my question.  WHO physically mines the Bitcoins?  Where are they mined?  Is it a server farm?  Is the guy that took out the loan responsible for mining them with his own equipment?  How do you determine the queue for mining coins?

The lender gets to mine them.  If he can't or doesn;t want to then he sells his right to a server farm or whatever.

If I take a $100,000 mortgage out, by your model, I would have to repay $170 back to 1000 people.  My hash rate is at 350 Mhash/sec.  At that rate, and at the current difficulty, I generate .26 BTC per day.  If I have to pay back $170,000 worth of BTC, I will be mining for 91 years.  And that's only if the difficulty stays the same.  If I am one of the guys that loans out $100, how long before I get my money back?

your hash rate is irrelevent, as the borrower you are not the one mining.

All you have is a concept, can you give an actual example with math to back it up based on current difficulty and say $20 per BTC?  

exactly, it's a great concept.  look at my post number, i'm new to all this.
full member
Activity: 168
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Everyone Is A Bank
June 29, 2011, 01:09:57 AM
#26
Terrible idea. Not only it's not viable but it'd encourage bad investments.

how so?
newbie
Activity: 2
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June 28, 2011, 09:40:22 PM
#25
Terrible idea. Not only it's not viable but it'd encourage bad investments.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 252
Until the end
June 28, 2011, 09:04:12 PM
#24
I think the confusion comes from the title 'Zero interest Bitcoin Mortgages'.

Also, if I invest $100 and get $170 in Bitcoins back, where do they come from?  In other words, who generates them?  

They are mined.  Just like regular bitcoins, except in this case only one person is allowed to mine them (but he can sell that right)

 You still aren't answering my question.  WHO physically mines the Bitcoins?  Where are they mined?  Is it a server farm?  Is the guy that took out the loan responsible for mining them with his own equipment?  How do you determine the queue for mining coins?

If I take a $100,000 mortgage out, by your model, I would have to repay $170 back to 1000 people.  My hash rate is at 350 Mhash/sec.  At that rate, and at the current difficulty, I generate .26 BTC per day.  If I have to pay back $170,000 worth of BTC, I will be mining for 91 years.  And that's only if the difficulty stays the same.  If I am one of the guys that loans out $100, how long before I get my money back?

All you have is a concept, can you give an actual example with math to back it up based on current difficulty and say $20 per BTC?  
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 251
June 28, 2011, 06:55:11 PM
#23
They are mined.  Just like regular bitcoins, except in this case only one person is allowed to mine them (but he can sell that right)

This is where the breakdown is. Who determines who is allowed to mine and how do you propose on enforcing that?
member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10
June 28, 2011, 06:42:46 PM
#22
what do you mean not be able to profit from it?  Did you miss point 3 in my original post?  Currently mining yeilds what, 5 Bitcoins?  This is worth roughly $70.  So for an investment of $100 you would get a return of $70 per month.  Is that not a good enough profit for you? 

Did the money go to the previous home owner to buy their home or to mining hardware? The same money can't go to both at the same time unless you are counterfeiting.


What are you talking about?  it's quite simple:  Person A lends coins to person B ($100 worth).  Person B makes monthly repayments back to person A (principal only, no interest)  As a reward for lending the coins, person A gets the right to process (mine) the transaction, which of course results in new coins being created.  There is no counterfieting here.
Coins get created with new blocks, not new transactions.  They can even be created with no transactions (except the coin generating one) in it.  The only thing miners get that is associated with a transaction is the fee and that fee comes from the person sending the bitcoins (the borrower in this case).  Sorry, no free lunch.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
June 28, 2011, 06:19:12 PM
#21
Here's what I don't understand - where is the value in that?


1. I don't need rights to mine. I can mine all day long in a pool or solo - how is this different?

2. supposing this somehow makes mining easier(the alternative) then it must make mining harder for everyone else. The # of bitcoins is limited to 21 million, so making 1 million free for one person means there's only 20 million left for everyone else to mine.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Everyone Is A Bank
June 28, 2011, 06:14:58 PM
#20
what do you mean not be able to profit from it?  Did you miss point 3 in my original post?  Currently mining yeilds what, 5 Bitcoins?  This is worth roughly $70.  So for an investment of $100 you would get a return of $70 per month.  Is that not a good enough profit for you? 

Did the money go to the previous home owner to buy their home or to mining hardware? The same money can't go to both at the same time unless you are counterfeiting.


What are you talking about?  it's quite simple:  Person A lends coins to person B ($100 worth).  Person B makes monthly repayments back to person A (principal only, no interest)  As a reward for lending the coins, person A gets the right to process (mine) the transaction, which of course results in new coins being created.  There is no counterfieting here.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
June 28, 2011, 06:09:31 PM
#19
hmm.... I remember something called prosper.com. I don't know if it's still around. Is that what you were thinking of?
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Everyone Is A Bank
June 28, 2011, 05:04:52 PM
#18
I think the confusion comes from the title 'Zero interest Bitcoin Mortgages'.

Also, if I invest $100 and get $170 in Bitcoins back, where do they come from?  In other words, who generates them? 

They are mined.  Just like regular bitcoins, except in this case only one person is allowed to mine them (but he can sell that right)
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 252
Until the end
June 28, 2011, 05:01:33 PM
#17
I think the confusion comes from the title 'Zero interest Bitcoin Mortgages'.

Also, if I invest $100 and get $170 in Bitcoins back, where do they come from?  In other words, who generates them? 
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Everyone Is A Bank
June 28, 2011, 04:14:43 PM
#16
I think it would make more sense to take interest rate.

Nothing prevents you from reducing your interest rate by some part by mining but why would I as a lender give money to people for free? (Which is what you do when you do not charge appropriate interest rate)

The mining rights would be worth more and besides, the whole point is to undercut the banks.  who would take out a bitcoin loan if it were not cheaper than the bank rate?

Why would a person take a risk of losing everything he lends out and not being able to profit from it or even cover the cost of defaults? Over time his investment would disappear entirely due to defaulting loans. They might as well give the money to charity.


what do you mean not be able to profit from it?  Did you miss point 3 in my original post?  Currently mining yeilds what, 5 Bitcoins?  This is worth roughly $70.  So for an investment of $100 you would get a return of $70 per month.  Is that not a good enough profit for you? 
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Everyone Is A Bank
June 28, 2011, 02:38:39 AM
#15
I think it would make more sense to take interest rate.

Nothing prevents you from reducing your interest rate by some part by mining but why would I as a lender give money to people for free? (Which is what you do when you do not charge appropriate interest rate)

The mining rights would be worth more and besides, the whole point is to undercut the banks.  who would take out a bitcoin loan if it were not cheaper than the bank rate?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
June 28, 2011, 12:40:13 AM
#14
Hey internet, want to help me buy some land?
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