Topic: Zpool.ca: Does it take 20-22% fee? - page 5. (Read 15059 times)

I pay the tx's fee's, they're not spread across miners balances.

I'd hope that it is all together or something, but it seems like no matter where I mine I'm getting about the same returns regardless of what coin I'm mining for my hashrate or not.

Having 7-1080's and 1-1080Ti, it seems like all I can get is about $60/day whether I mine pure Skein DGB, multi-algo on zpool, or something else.  MPH doesn't seem to offer much different and take a lot longer to move things between the transfer to exchange, on exchange, and moving back to my wallet on MPH.  Not to mention MPH seems a lot harder to know what returns you can expect being spread across so many different coins and exchanging.  Only real benefit there seems to be that I can convert it to ETH which will likely gain more than BTC will in the near future anyways.  Hell I got a bunch of maxcoin on MPH since I didn't realize that Keccak only mined that up and there were no exchanges to trade it on.  $60/day is fine really, but I expected that I might be able to get more.

I don't think it works quite like you're thinking...

Here is the payout transaction - https://btc.blockr.io/tx/info/ac4c97f0965ac1d3228d8c0b0a3508cca6b69fccc6aae88c406823e4f99e1a6b

BTC paid out - 4.02472877
Fee paid is   - 0.01963269

So that fee is ~$53 and I assume it is spread across all miners that you can see that got paid.

Although it would be great if Crackfoo could confirm

I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees.  They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars.  That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC.  This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault.  This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.

Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.

the point is that it also happens if you don't exchange, and this is exclusive to zpool. I have not seen another pool stealing 20%, yet.

He didn't though.  All he showed was that 4 hours after the coins were found they were  exchanged for .035 and that there was a point on the Poloniex exchange that they could have been sold for more potentially.  I'm not suspecting his evidence, but neither have timestamps so how do you really know that peak was when the coins were mined up.  How long of a delay would you expect there to be to move the coins from the pool to the exchanges?  With autoexchange you don't get to decide when the coins get sold.  I would hope there is some logic that wouldn't sell the coins immediately after a dip or something like that, but again that is up to the algorithm to decide when the coins get sold.  It could have just as easily skyrocketed and sold for more than when coins were mined and then you'd see a bonus.  The problem seems to be that you don't get to see exactly when the coins you mined got sold and for how much.  I don't know of any pool with auto-exchange that gives that detailed information.  Nor would I necessarily expect it would because it would likely just generate tons of people complaining that the system sold their coins at the wrong time and it should have waited, or sold sooner.  If you don't like it then grab the Yiimp code and rewrite it such that each user can control when the coins go to the exchange to get converted?

As you said if you're watching the exchanges and want to maximize your profits on the trading side then auto-exchange pools are likely not for you.  I've got a bunch of coins "sitting on the exchange" at MPH that I have no clue when they will get converted to my currency of choice.  This isn't something that is exclusive to Zpool.

I am cool with exchange rate volatility and pool op making some money of the swings for the convenience, but why not publish what the coins are/were being exchanged at?  And on the "shady" part, since this info was not provided, I am concerned about exchanging the coins for a higher value and pool op keeping the difference.  If that is being done and not being disclosed...that is shady.  SP's example above seems to show this shadiness which concerns me.  '

If I try zpool then I guess I need to watch the exchanges to see if I am getting ripped off...but then again if I am watching the exchanges I might as well trade the coins myself, so I guess there is no point to using zpool after all.  Way to go zpool, shady or not, you just lost a miner.

The problem with any autoexchange is that you don't get to decide when the coins get sold.  You may have mined them up when the coin was at its peak, but there is no guarantee that the coins get sold instantly after being mined.  The way that altcoin markets move I'd expect there to be a lot of variability as to when the coins actually get sold.  Having them using a trailing average price isn't that unreasonable either.  If you want to be able to execute the best price trades then you need to not use auto-exchange.  Even MPH and other pools that give fee rates for exchange likely don't include price fluctuations.

You are paying for convenience of not having to deal with multiple exchanges and still be able to play some variable algo mining to try and take advantage of those fluctuations.  In fact if it were my exchange and the price tanked on a coin, I might intentionally pay out a perceived value of the coins and try and maximize the profits later.  This might also be why you have such a gap between how much value you have unpaid and what is confirmed.  Maybe I'm wrong, but none of this seems "shady" to me, just not fully transparent.  Unless the system showed you exactly what price you supposedly mined up the coins at versus the price of when those coins were actually sold on the exchange would you know the gap.  The talk here seems to be more about backseat trading when you have the system set on autopilot.  If you think you can trade it better then mine up the coins directly and sell them yourself, that's the only way you can guarantee the prices.

As far as I've seen the payout on zpool.ca is pretty close to what I would expect for my hashrates, but instead of relying on one coin I can mine 15+ depending on the fluctuations.

I hear you on the convenience, but I just don't like shady shit.  Be upfront with the fees/costs.  Mining Pool Hub has auto-exchange and can mine multiple coins. They are upfront on exchange fees.

I like the stats and PPS on zpool better since I only have limited mining time each day.  If their info is correct, their profitability seems higher than other pools without much of a reason as to why they are higher that I can tell.

I don't want to mine there for a few days expecting X and getting Y because they are not upfront about exchange fees and I am suckered in with the higher profitability numbers that is why I wanted to see if anyone had given it a try.  

Thanks for the explanation.

If you only want to mine a single coin and want to get paid in that coin, go with yiimp.  If you want to try and ride the wave of multiple coins to increase your payout, zpool is the best I have found regardless of what is said here.  I am happy with the daily payouts I get with zpool and I don't have to manage it.  They at least match, but usually beat, estimated payouts for mining a single coin.  When I multi coin mine on yiimp I had to create 10+ wallets on various exchanges, then wait for enough coins to amass to be able to sell them.  Then transferring the BTC back incurred another cost.  All of this is handled in bulk by zpool which reduces cost and time.  To duplicate the number of coins available to mine and manage the exchanging of those coins to BTC, requires a significant amount of time without zpool, in order to get the same payout (in my experience).

But in the end, it's your choice what to do.  As my operation gets larger and I dedicate additional time to it, I may move to yiimp and hold coins longer to catch the rises in the market better.  But currently I don't have the time, so zpool provides a very consistent income that I don't have to manage.

Did anyone do any testing of this or is still testing? 
 

total = paid + unpaid
unpaid = balance + unsold

unsold fluctuates with market values until sold, this is why the total fluctuates.

I can't comment about the supposed 20%, but can someone explain why their API sometimes shows your totals suddenly decrease for no apparent reason?

eg.


Those were captured several minutes apart in sequential order.  Why did the total decrease?  Is it because of fees, or...?

hey guys..... Make a decision .... xDD
Lose 20% only for conversion?
Or even without converting the coin?
Why do some earn more, and others less using the same system ??
Let me understand well .... sorry but I do not speak English, I think I'm not the only one, for all visitors who read this topic, thank you.

all the exchange stuff doesn't really matter, you lose 20% as well if you don't exchange at all

The questions I have on my mind are...

When does zpool exchange?
Is it right after the block is found?
I'm guessing they just use the exact price at the time to get the quikest trade possible.

Which exchange do they use for LBRY?
How does the price compare to Poloniex?

Slightly unrelated but why did you start cranking out LBRY?
And why is the reject rate so high?

Hash has been added to zpool.ca and the problem is still there. 7 blocks found in the last 12 hours and all of them have a significant lower exchange rate than the marketprice on the exchange.

http://zpool.ca/?address=1CTiNJyoUmbdMRACtteRWXhGqtSETYd6Vd

Look at the last block.

Price on zpool 1 LBC:     0.00009829
Price on poloniex 1 LBC: 0.00011618 (+16%)

unfortunately yiimp is down, so I can't tell you how many blocks they find daily, but it was a lot, so you were mining solo, and worst you can do with mining solo is to let a script selling your coins, at least you could use a LBR address for payout...

Why do you use the 11 days average average rate? When a block is found I expect the pool to exchange with todays rate right after the block has been confirmed. If I have waited 11 days on yiimp, I still could get todays exchange rate wich is 40% above the payout that I got. zpool's excangerate seems to be 20-30% lower than the market rate always..