ZTEX USB-FPGA Modules 1.15x and 1.15y: 215 and 860 MH/s FPGA Boards - page 47.

DeathAndTaxes

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Quote from: ztex on December 01, 2011, 09:16:33 AM

There is a problem with selling power supplies: different countries have different plugs and different voltages. Expensive international kits would have to be used and due to the size shipping gets even more expansive.

Yeah me being amero-centric again I forgot how many different voltage/plug/cycle combinations there are.

Quote

Furthermore, most of these 1.15x FPGA Boards are used in clusters with a special power supply, see initial post of this thread.

Agreed which is how I intend to use it.

ztex

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You also reported that the "working" power supply was pushing 13.5V.

AFAIR 11.5 V under load and 13.5 V in idle. It seems to be an unregulated supply without bulk capacitors. (With bulk capacitors the idle voltage would be higher.)

The voltages he measured are mean voltages. The peak voltages are drastically higher.

Quote

The one thing I would advise ztek to do is offer an optional power supply for sale. If you already do then that makes gusti claim even weaker but if you don't you might want to offer one. Users who may be concerned about their ability to verify a power supply before using it could just buy one from out. Those of us who intend to power 20+ from a ATX PSU wouldn't need to.

Any power supply with a peak voltage less than 18V (recommended: 16V) and a minimum voltage of 4.5V can be used.

All stabilized supplies are save if their nominal voltage is within this limits. Switching supplies are always regulated.

There is a problem problem with selling power supplies: different countries have different plugs and different voltages. Expensive international kits would have to be used and due to the size shipping gets even more expansive. Furthermore, most of these 1.15x FPGA Boards are used in clusters with a special power supply, see initial post of this thread.

gusti

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Quote from: ztex on December 01, 2011, 09:03:15 AM

Quote from: P4man on December 01, 2011, 08:15:24 AM

If I was ztex, I might consider giving you a 50% rebate on the first board (and explain the PSU requirements better if needed), but certainly no more than that. Id actually find that

The (internal) policy for accidentally destroyed devices is a discount of 20% to 30% for the replacement order because I do not want to earn to much from this kind of pit.

It is always possible that a device is destroyed by not being careful (usually shortcuts, ESD) or by not reading the specification. This also happened to me. But it happened in the same way to two boards.

I think you need to design a better voltage regulating circuit, with some kind of protection.
Or make it clear not to connect consumer grade PS, only PC PSU with a better regulation.

ztex

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Quote from: P4man on December 01, 2011, 08:15:24 AM

If I was ztex, I might consider giving you a 50% rebate on the first board (and explain the PSU requirements better if needed), but certainly no more than that. Id actually find that

The (internal) policy for accidentally destroyed devices is a discount of 20% to 30% for the replacement order because I do not want to earn to much from this kind of pit.

It is always possible that a device is destroyed by not being careful (usually shortcuts, ESD) or by not reading the specification. This also happened to me. But it happened in the same way to two boards.

gusti

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 01, 2011, 08:56:11 AM

Could it be a polarity issue?

Center pos vs center neg?

No it wasn´t, checked that on the PS too.

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The "smoke" issue is a plain lie from manufacturer, I NEVER wrote that email.

I can publish the header if you can't remember in this mail.

And what is about the image. If a part is blown up in this way it prduces smoke.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Could it be a polarity issue?

Center pos vs center neg?

gusti

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on December 01, 2011, 08:43:47 AM

Quote from: gusti on December 01, 2011, 08:36:13 AM

Quote from: P4man on December 01, 2011, 08:15:24 AM

Warranty is to cover product defects, not user defects.
I might understand you if you had blown up a single board, if your point is that ztex gave inadequate information about what kind of powersupply you need (ie, regulated psu). I havent checked their documentation, so maybe it is made clear, but Im assuming maybe it isnt. But I can have no sympathy for the second board you smoked.

If I was ztex, I might consider giving you a 50% rebate on the first board (and explain the PSU requirements better if needed), but certainly no more than that. Id actually find that pretty generous already.

Certainly there was a problem with boards, manufacturer says it's a power supply problem. I say that same power supply is actually working with a 3COM switch, same 12 VDC rating. Please tell me where is the "user defect" you are talking about.

You also reported that the "working" power supply was pushing 13.5V. That's 11% overvoltage. Tell you what put 13.5V into an AMD video card and then when you see smoke try it on a second card. Then try getting an RMA. Be sure to tell them exactly what you did.

Most electronic warranties don't cover overvoltage.

The one thing I would advise ztek to do is offer an optional power supply for sale. If you already do then that makes gusti claim even weaker but if you don't you might want to offer one. Users who may be concerned about their ability to verify a power supply before using it could just buy one from out. Those of us who intend to power 20+ from a ATX PSU wouldn't need to.

According to manufacturer, there cannot be overvoltage at 13.5 v, as the cards are rated from 5 to 16 v.
The "smoke" issue is a plain lie from manufacturer, I NEVER wrote that email.
And the "working" power supply, is currently working with it's original switch.

So please, do not make false assumptions beforehand, I worked on IT since 1983 and I never blowed a card before.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: gusti on December 01, 2011, 08:36:13 AM

Quote from: P4man on December 01, 2011, 08:15:24 AM

Warranty is to cover product defects, not user defects.
I might understand you if you had blown up a single board, if your point is that ztex gave inadequate information about what kind of powersupply you need (ie, regulated psu). I havent checked their documentation, so maybe it is made clear, but Im assuming maybe it isnt. But I can have no sympathy for the second board you smoked.

If I was ztex, I might consider giving you a 50% rebate on the first board (and explain the PSU requirements better if needed), but certainly no more than that. Id actually find that pretty generous already.

Certainly there was a problem with boards, manufacturer says it's a power supply problem. I say that same power supply is actually working with a 3COM switch, same 12 VDC rating. Please tell me where is the "user defect" you are talking about.

You also reported that the "working" power supply was pushing 13.5V. That's 11% overvoltage. Tell you what put 13.5V into an AMD video card and then when you see smoke try it on a second card. Then try getting an RMA. Be sure to tell them exactly what you did.

Most electronic warranties don't cover overvoltage.

The one thing I would advise ztek to do is offer an optional power supply for sale. If you already do then that makes gusti claim even weaker but if you don't you might want to offer one. Users who may be concerned about their ability to verify a power supply before using it could just buy one from out. Those of us who intend to power 20+ from a ATX PSU wouldn't need to.

gusti

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Quote from: P4man on December 01, 2011, 08:15:24 AM

Warranty is to cover product defects, not user defects.
I might understand you if you had blown up a single board, if your point is that ztex gave inadequate information about what kind of powersupply you need (ie, regulated psu). I havent checked their documentation, so maybe it is made clear, but Im assuming maybe it isnt. But I can have no sympathy for the second board you smoked.

If I was ztex, I might consider giving you a 50% rebate on the first board (and explain the PSU requirements better if needed), but certainly no more than that. Id actually find that pretty generous already.

Certainly there was a problem with boards, manufacturer says it's a power supply problem. I say that same power supply is actually working with a 3COM switch, same 12 VDC rating. Please tell me where is the "user defect" you are talking about.

P4man

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Warranty is to cover product defects, not user defects.
I might understand you if you had blown up a single board, if your point is that ztex gave inadequate information about what kind of powersupply you need (ie, regulated psu). I havent checked their documentation, so maybe it is made clear, but Im assuming maybe it isnt. But I can have no sympathy for the second board you smoked.

If I was ztex, I might consider giving you a 50% rebate on the first board (and explain the PSU requirements better if needed), but certainly no more than that. Id actually find that pretty generous already.

gusti

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Quote from: tnkflx on December 01, 2011, 08:04:34 AM

Warranties are void if you killed the board yourself...

Please enlighten me, how can I kill myself a board with a proper rated PS, that is actually working with another device (3COM switch ) ?
I suspect a design problem, or lack of protection from consumer grade power supplies, which the manufacturer never warned about.

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Warranties are void if you killed the board yourself...

gusti

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Quote from: ztex on December 01, 2011, 04:46:57 AM

Quote from: gusti on November 30, 2011, 08:43:13 PM

I highly recommend not buying anything from this vendor, their warranty is non-existent.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ed-a-thread-in-which-ztex-is-blamed-for-a-faulty-board-53411

This is an (almost) cross post from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40047.140

Gusti returned two boards 2 days ago. Both voltage regulators on both boards are destroyed. These voltage regulators are over current and temperature protected. The only way to destroy them is by over voltage.

Since the valid range of is clearly specified on the products page (http://www.ztex.de/usb-fpga-1/usb-fpga-1.15x.e.html#con5), this is not covered by warranty.

Here is an image which shows the 3.3V regulator of one of Gustis board:

Gusti, In your mail from Nov 10 you wrote that smoke came out of one of the part. Why you destroyed the second board in the same way instead of asking me what is going wrong?

These regulator circuits are used in 4 other products. I sold a few hundreds of them. Gusti is the only customer I know who destroyed the regulators in this way.

BTW, I just counted it: I wrote Gusti 22 support mails. This was not always easy. His last mail is

Quote

no problem, bro
I will make sure you will not sell a single card in the forum anymore

Sure, you need to honour the warranties and the design problems of the products you are selling.
If not, new customers need to be aware the risks they are facing by buying from you.
Again, I'm publicly asking you for a proper solution on this, at this point a full refund.

ztex

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Quote from: gusti on November 30, 2011, 08:43:13 PM

I highly recommend not buying anything from this vendor, their warranty is non-existent.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ed-a-thread-in-which-ztex-is-blamed-for-a-faulty-board-53411

This is an (almost) cross post from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40047.140

Gusti returned two boards 2 days ago. Both voltage regulators on both boards are destroyed. These voltage regulators are over current and temperature protected. The only way to destroy them is by over voltage.

Since the valid range of is clearly specified on the products page (http://www.ztex.de/usb-fpga-1/usb-fpga-1.15x.e.html#con5), this is not covered by warranty.

Here is an image which shows the 3.3V regulator of one of Gustis board:

Gusti, In your mail from Nov 10 you wrote that smoke came out of one of the part. Why you destroyed the second board in the same way instead of asking me what is going wrong?

These regulator circuits are used in 4 other products. I sold a few hundreds of them. Gusti is the only customer I know who destroyed the regulators in this way.

BTW, I just counted it: I wrote Gusti 22 support mails. This was not always easy. His last mail is

Quote

no problem, bro
I will make sure you will not sell a single card in the forum anymore

Turbor

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BitMinter

Quote from: gusti on November 30, 2011, 10:21:56 PM

Quote from: Turbor on November 30, 2011, 10:02:23 PM

Bring up all mails so we can see what is going on !

I will make public all emails if Stefan says that anything I already said, is not true.

Seems fair. Relax, give him time and i'm almost sure there will be a solution to your problem.

gusti

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Quote from: Turbor on November 30, 2011, 10:02:23 PM

Bring up all mails so we can see what is going on !

I will make public all emails if Stefan says that anything I already said, is not true.

Turbor

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Bring up all mails so we can see what is going on !

gusti

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I highly recommend not buying anything from this vendor, their warranty is non-existent.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ed-a-thread-in-which-ztex-is-blamed-for-a-faulty-board-53411

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Put in my order for a small cluster last night, can't wait to get back into mining (damn electric rates made even 5970s unprofitable!)

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